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Formerly called the NCS, this is a place for communists and socialists to talk about communism and socialism. 

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Chavez's Constitutional Reforms Fail

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:01 am


Chavez Loses Constitutional Vote

Monday, December 3, 2007
CARACAS, Venezuela - Humbled by his first electoral defeat ever, President Hugo Chavez said Monday he may have been too ambitious in asking voters to let him stand indefinitely for re-election and endorse a huge leap to a socialist state.

"I understand and accept that the proposal I made was quite profound and intense," he said after voters narrowly rejected the sweeping constitutional reforms by 51 percent to 49 percent.

Opposition activists were ecstatic as the results were announced shortly after midnight - with 88 percent of the vote counted, the trend was declared irreversible by elections council chief Tibisay Lucena.

Some shed tears. Others began chanting: "And now he's going away!"

Foes of the reform effort - including Roman Catholic leaders, media freedom groups, human rights groups and prominent business leaders - said it would have granted Chavez unchecked power and imperiled basic rights.

Chavez told reporters at the presidential palace that the outcome of Sunday's balloting had taught him that "Venezuelan democracy is maturing." His respect for the verdict, he asserted, proves he is a true democratic leader.

"From this moment on, let's be calm," he proposed, asking for no more street violence like the clashes that marred pre-vote protests. "There is no dictatorship here."

A senior U.S. official hailed Chavez's referendum defeat Monday as a victory for the country's citizens who want to preserve democracy and prevent Chavez from having unchecked power.

"We felt that this referendum would make Chavez president for life, and that's not ever a welcome development," U.S. Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns told reporters in Singapore. "In a country that wants to be a democracy, the people spoke, and the people spoke for democracy and against unlimited power."

Chavez, who was briefly ousted in a failed 2002 coup, blamed the loss on low turnout among the very supporters who re-elected him a year ago with 63 percent of the vote.

Seven in 10 eligible voters cast ballots then. This time it was just 56 percent.

The defeated reform package would have created new types of communal property, let Chavez handpick local leaders under a redrawn political map and suspended civil liberties during extended states of emergency. Without the overhaul, Chavez will be barred from running again in 2012.

Other changes would have shortened the workday from eight hours to six, created a social security fund for millions of informal laborers and promoted communal councils where residents decide how to spend government funds.

Nelly Hernandez, a 37-year-old street vendor, cried as she wandered outside the presidential palace early Monday amid broken beer bottles as government workers took apart a stage mounted earlier for a victory fete.

"It's difficult to accept this, but Chavez has not abandoned us, he'll still be there for us," she said between sobs.

A close ally of Cuba's Fidel Castro, Chavez has redistributed more oil wealth than past Venezuelan leaders, and also has aided Latin American allies - including Bolivia, Ecuador and Nicaragua - that have followed Venezuela's turn to the left.

"He is a man who feels for the people, a man who has suffered, a man who comes from below," Carlos Orlando Vega, a 47-year-old carpenter's assistant, said outside a polling station in a Caracas slum on Sunday.

Vega is among tens of thousands of Venezuelans who, under Chavez, have new government-provided homes.

Chavez urged calm and restraint after his Sunday setback.

"I wouldn't have wanted that Pyrrhic victory," he said, suggesting a small margin wouldn't have been enough of a mandate.

Tensions surged in the weeks ahead of Sunday's vote, with university students leading protests and occasionally clashing with police and Chavista groups.

Chavez had warned opponents against inciting violence before the vote, and threatened to cut off oil exports to the United States if the Bush administration interfered.

Chavez, 53, also suffered some high-profile defections by political allies, including former defense minister Gen. Raul Baduel.

Early Monday, Baduel reminded fellow Venezuelans that Chavez still wields special decree powers thanks to a pliant National Assembly packed with his supporters.

"These results can't be recognized as a victory," Baduel told reporters,

Baduel, who as defense minister helped Chavez turn back the 2002 putsch, said Venezuela can only be properly united by convening a popularly elected assembly to rewrite its constitution.

Chavez has progressively steamrolled a fractured opposition since he was first elected in 1998, and his allies now control most elected posts.

At opposition headquarters in an affluent east Caracas district, jubilant Chavez foes sang the national anthem.

"This reform was about democracy or totalitarian socialism, and democracy won," said opposition leader Leopoldo Lopez said.

"At least now we have the guarantee that Chavez will leave power," said Valeria Aguirre, a 22-year-old student who had braved tear gas during street protests.

Lucena, the electoral agency chief, called the vote "the calmest we've had in the last 10 years."

All was reported calm during Sunday's voting but 45 people were detained, most for committing ballot-related crimes like "destroying electoral materials," said Gen. Jesus Gonzalez, chief of a military command overseeing security.

---

Associated Press writers Ian James, Edison Lopez, Fabiola Sanchez, Jorge Rueda, Christopher Toothaker and Sandra Sierra contributed to this report.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:46 am


*nod* So be it. Term limits are a necessity, no matter how much one likes the leader in question, because they set a precedent for democracy and moderation. I think if he'd have left that part out, he'd have gotten more support.

Lady Merewyn


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:36 pm


That and the proposal to allow him to appoint some municipal officials rather than have them be appointed by other local officials. I doubt that they won't break some of these up and represent them in a few years. But the term limit thing (though few countries have term limits) was a serious tactical blunder on Chavez's part.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:00 pm


Indeed. It gave his opposition credence when making claims that he would seize power and not let go of it. There are times when, for an ideology to take root, the individual has to make some sacrifices, and for Chavez, that would mean sticking to the allotted terms and not seeking anything more. *shrugs*

Lady Merewyn


SoViEtTaNkT34
Crew

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:01 pm


Good let the Jesus christ superstar be nailed to the cross... -_-

"jesus christ the first revolutionary" Chavez... <.< .... scream
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:01 pm


I was also bothered by the executive control over the Central bank thing. They really need to keep it at the municipality level and have the bank officials democratically accountable. (Not necessarily elected, but not protected by higher authorities either.)

Maryhl

Shy Werewolf


CrowNotAngelGRL

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:45 am


I don't think it's fair to say why unless you have sources of why from the actual people. I'm sure each person had their own reasoning. And how is having term limits good for democracy? The people aren't deciding how long they have a president. The states for many years had no term limits and it was not in the Constitution that the founding fathers set up.

Lady Merewyn
*nod* So be it. Term limits are a necessity, no matter how much one likes the leader in question, because they set a precedent for democracy and moderation. I think if he'd have left that part out, he'd have gotten more support.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:45 am


She's making the statement because that was the main argument of the "no" opposition.

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Newski

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:34 pm


I'm glad... Right now is a crucial time for Socialism in Venezuala.... If this had passed, it would have easily gone to a dictatorship, no matter what Chavez's intentions were.

It was definitely too much this time around.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:39 pm


I think so too. Maybe it would've been better if he did one at a time or something.

Newski
I'm glad... Right now is a crucial time for Socialism in Venezuala.... If this had passed, it would have easily gone to a dictatorship, no matter what Chavez's intentions were.

It was definitely too much this time around.

CrowNotAngelGRL


Koon

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:56 pm


Well, props to him for actually stepping down. I must say I think mildly higher of him now.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:57 am


CrowNotAngelGRL
I think so too. Maybe it would've been better if he did one at a time or something.

Newski
I'm glad... Right now is a crucial time for Socialism in Venezuala.... If this had passed, it would have easily gone to a dictatorship, no matter what Chavez's intentions were.

It was definitely too much this time around.


Or just keep everything except making himself president for life....

Newski


SoViEtTaNkT34
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:34 am


Newski
CrowNotAngelGRL
I think so too. Maybe it would've been better if he did one at a time or something.

Newski
I'm glad... Right now is a crucial time for Socialism in Venezuala.... If this had passed, it would have easily gone to a dictatorship, no matter what Chavez's intentions were.

It was definitely too much this time around.


Or just keep everything except making himself president for life....


Limitless terms does not = president for life.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:36 am


It wouldn't have made him president for life - unless the voters in Venezuela wanted that (by reelecting him every term). The reforms simply removed term limits - which don't exist in *most* of the democratic nations in the world, for instance: France, Great Britain, Germany, and Italy.

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Newski

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:43 pm


SoViEtTaNkT34
Newski
CrowNotAngelGRL
I think so too. Maybe it would've been better if he did one at a time or something.

Newski
I'm glad... Right now is a crucial time for Socialism in Venezuala.... If this had passed, it would have easily gone to a dictatorship, no matter what Chavez's intentions were.

It was definitely too much this time around.


Or just keep everything except making himself president for life....


Limitless terms does not = president for life.


I know it does not mean president for life.

The point was, it seemed like to many he was determined to keep himself in power, and that was a real source of controversy here. So my statement was actually satirical, and not literal.
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