|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:00 am
One's identity is such a complex issue, more complex than we may realize. In this particular thread, I would like to spark discussion concerning gender identity, and in particular Androgyny. To fully understand what Androgyny is and what exactly gender identity is, I have provided quotes from an excellent article concerning this matter:Androgyne Online
Androgyne (pronounced AN-dra-jine) is the term used to describe persons who are androgynous. Androgyny, first and foremost, is a state of mind, not just an attitude or fashion statement. The notion that only androgynous-looking people can be or are androgynous is a misconception. Androgynes can be said to have the gender identity of both a man and a woman -- or neither. Some identify with both traditional genders, while others see their identity as more of a synthesis and consider themselves to be agendered, as in "other" or "none of the above."
Contrary to popular belief, having an androgynous appearance does not necessarily make a person (an) androgyne. Many transsexuals are transsexual without looking at all like the opposite sex, and many androgynes are androgyne without looking the part. The word androgynous can apply to both superficial and psychological characteristics, whereas the word androgyne pertains almost specifically to gender identity, not to looks. Just as all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares, all androgynes are (psychologically) androgynous but not all androgynous(-looking) people are androgynes.
...
"Key to understanding androgyneity is a schema wherein sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity are three separate and different things. Sex denotes one's gonadal makeup, where one can be male, female, or intersex (previously called hermaphrodite). Sexual orientation reflects the sort(s) of person to whom one is attracted for sexual purposes, where one can be attracted to males, to females, to intersex people, to any combination of the three, or be asexual. (The terms heterosexual, homosexual and bisexual are problematic for the intersexed because the intersexed are not always clearly male or female.) Gender identity refers to how one views oneself. A person can consider themselves to be a man (masculine), a woman (feminine), or androgyne (man/masculine and woman/feminine simultaneously, or neither)."Quote: There are actually four components of gender: identity, presentation, performance, and role. Gender identity concerns how you think about yourself, gender presentation describes how you look physically and sartorially, gender performance pertains to how you act or comport yourself, and gender role refers to what you do for a living and what you contribute to the domestic sphere. Taken together, the last three components comprise gender expression. Gender identity is internal, whereas gender expression is external, and that is why not all androgynous-looking people are androgynes. Quote: The non-native temptation to use the Native-American term "two-spirit" (instituted in 1991) is great, but has generally been frowned upon by Native Americans, even though the term was created in tandem by native and non-native anthropologists. Historically, most two-spirits (then referred to indiscriminately as berdaches by non-native anthropologists) had the gender identity of an androgyne, displayed the gender presentation of androgyne, and lived in an androgyne gender role, and some even exhibited androgyny in the remaining component of gender (gender performance). Maybe sometime in the future, after the term's misappropriation by the native and non-native gay communities is sorted out, Native Americans will come to recognize non-native androgynes as two-spirits, even though the shamanic elements of the term tend not to be embodied by non-natives.
It's not an easy topic, nor is it a clear-cut one. People may tend to assume that it's one or the other. You're either gay or heterosexual, but that is simplifying a far more complex situation. Nothing is either/or. There is always a grey area.
Thoughts? Here is some questions to spark some discussion:
*What do you think of when you encounter the idea of Androgyne or someone who says they are androgynous?
*What do you think your gender identity is?
*Do you think Androgyne is a type of identity?
*Is there a difference between gender and one's sex? Do you agree with the theory in this article? Why or why not?
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:56 pm
Well, like I said, you know what I think of gender, and I think it's a shame so few people can see past the binary. I'm transgendered, so I embody characteristics that don't suit culture's definition of what 'female' should be. That doesn't necessarily mean I'll ever seek to alter my body, but I do cross-dress, and feel easier in gender-neutral clothing. Sometimes I still do appear very 'female', depending on the situation, but I don't believe I'm bigendered (male and female simutaniously, or as appropriate to a situation), as even mean I appear more feminine, I still act in a masculine way. I don't think I'm any better than women, or any better than men. Unfortunatly, I always carry the feeling I'm below that, because I don't match up to the values of society. I honestly believe gender exsists independant of bodily sex (confusing, because doctors call one's sex one's gender over here), but rather that it is influenced by culture. I think God gives you a gender identity, which is unaltered by human minds or hands, but the presentation depends on how honest you are with yourself, and whether or not culture makes you want to hide your identity, or change it. Gender, I think, is just the characteristics you have, the personality you embody. I also think it's very difficult a topic now, for the reason cited by Wollstonecraft: virtues of society are typically expected in a male, and not a female. Men are courageous, wise, studious, while women are vain and chattery. Now, this isn't the case, but there are roles culture would like us to fill. However, you cannot stuff a size 7 foot into a size 5 shoe, not without the awful effects afterwards. I think this applies to those who are put into a gender role they don't suit, in that they suffer horrendously afterward.
Something that did interest me was how you used capitals in the words, and might relate to something we've talked about before. By capitalising 'androgyne' to 'Andrrogyne', you're imposing a community identity, contrasting where you use small case for 'androgynous'. Like how someone belongs to the Gay Community, or is Gay, and how this differs to someone who is described as gay. Someone is Deaf, being a member of that community (again, Deaf Community), but this isn't necessarily someone who is medically deaf. Does that make sense?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:41 pm
Nemithena Well, like I said, you know what I think of gender, and I think it's a shame so few people can see past the binary. I'm transgendered, so I embody characteristics that don't suit culture's definition of what 'female' should be. That doesn't necessarily mean I'll ever seek to alter my body, but I do cross-dress, and feel easier in gender-neutral clothing. Sometimes I still do appear very 'female', depending on the situation, but I don't believe I'm bigendered (male and female simutaniously, or as appropriate to a situation), as even mean I appear more feminine, I still act in a masculine way. I don't think I'm any better than women, or any better than men. Unfortunatly, I always carry the feeling I'm below that, because I don't match up to the values of society. I honestly believe gender exsists independant of bodily sex (confusing, because doctors call one's sex one's gender over here), but rather that it is influenced by culture. I think God gives you a gender identity, which is unaltered by human minds or hands, but the presentation depends on how honest you are with yourself, and whether or not culture makes you want to hide your identity, or change it. Gender, I think, is just the characteristics you have, the personality you embody. I also think it's very difficult a topic now, for the reason cited by Wollstonecraft: virtues of society are typically expected in a male, and not a female. Men are courageous, wise, studious, while women are vain and chattery. Now, this isn't the case, but there are roles culture would like us to fill. However, you cannot stuff a size 7 foot into a size 5 shoe, not without the awful effects afterwards. I think this applies to those who are put into a gender role they don't suit, in that they suffer horrendously afterward.
Something that did interest me was how you used capitals in the words, and might relate to something we've talked about before. By capitalising 'androgyne' to 'Andrrogyne', you're imposing a community identity, contrasting where you use small case for 'androgynous'. Like how someone belongs to the Gay Community, or is Gay, and how this differs to someone who is described as gay. Someone is Deaf, being a member of that community (again, Deaf Community), but this isn't necessarily someone who is medically deaf. Does that make sense?
I also find the capitlization I did to be interesting as well, it just happened, like that was the natural way to write it. Perhaps it has become common grammar to captilize something when referring to a community..
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:05 am
*What do you think of when you encounter the idea of Androgyne or someone who says they are androgynous?
Well, somehow strange, because it would be new to me. Maybe I would feel a bit sorry for the person, because it it always hard being different.
*What do you think your gender identity is?
Totally boring: Female
*Do you think Androgyne is a type of identity?
Yes and no... Gender of any kind is part of your identity, but my definition of identity is a bit broader.
*Is there a difference between gender and one's sex? Do you agree with the theory in this article? Why or why not?
Yes, there is a difference. For someone, who has the same identity in sex and gender, it is sometimes hard to understand. (Transsexuals are an undeniable fact, so I have to agree, totally independent of what I am thinking... Okay, I am thinking: "Well, there are transsexuals...")
But sometimes you don't have to understand, you have to accept.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:43 pm
Whoa, haven't been in here for awhile. Alright, I like this topic. Actually, it brought something to my attention I hadn't thought of before: there is a third option, here. I do like how you made sure to differentiate that sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity are not the same thing. My sex is female, and I do indeed have a boyfriend that I care very much about, but I've never felt any particular alliance to either gender. Sometimes I do take pleasure in doing 'girl' things, like dressing up, but that's most of the time due to the fact that it makes me feel more special. On the other hand, I've also been known to hang out with the guys and do things that are labeled as 'guy' things. I don't feel male, but I don't feel particularly female, either. it's interesting to note that 'adrogenous' may not just be a physical description, but also a state of mind.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
