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MotherSky

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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:24 pm

Alright. We need to resolve some issues now, and stop avoiding them. I figured it was easier to create a topic dedicated to this subject then try and gain your attention through posts throughout this forum.

Okay. Let's look at what is dictated by this forums opening page:

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We are a Christian guild, focused on helping out faith grow, and also just having fun and being plain goofy.

Come to post how God found you, saved you, or post your favourite colour or an interesting tidbit about your day, I hope that this guild will become a tight knit faimly reaching out to non-believers and to eachother, finding friendships.

We will accept those who are not Christian, but if you are just going to come to bash, please do not even click the request to join button, you will be banned immidiatly. However, if you are curious about Christian faith, feel free to join, we welcome you. And please, all of you....refrain from swearing!

On that note, there needs to be a high level of RESPECT for the Christian faith, and those curious, treat eachother kindly in this guild, if you have a problem, PM the person and try to work it out, any persons disrespecting others will be warned and then banned.

To join just click the request to join button and tell us a little about yourselfs and what you believe in, and welcome.

Okay. First, let's look at you, Soulstrike.

You were very respectful in your posts when I first saw you on this site. You were nice, and you gave your opinions objectively. You stated what you believed in, and very rarely caused any sort of. . .debate.

But, just recently, there has been a change in your attitude:

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Haven't given him a chance?! icon_scream.gif I gave him a chance. I, like the child I was, believed in it completely. Eventually, I thought it over and over and at last my convictions were eroded and replaced by new ones. new convictions and truths discovered and earned in experience. God never answered me, because there is no god. There is a certain balance in the world, but divinity never had anything to do with it.

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I never said that the two go hand in hand, I am just saying how an honest perspective is reached.
How presumptious you are to claim a perspective an honest one. 'Tis a religious perspective based solely on the assumption (belief) in a certain systemative superstition. You cannot call a perspective based upon pre-set beliefs an honest one. Biased is the adjective that comes to mind.

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Well< i dont know about us being the example of conformity...we try to go against being like the things of this world. Of course, it doesnt maen that we will be perfect, we're gonna be drawn in sometimes, but it's something we should all strive for. Maybe peopel justy notice Christian conforming more than others because we should strive not to, but we still sometimes do.
No, he's right. Christians conform to their own traditional, archaic beliefs. They strive to get everyone else to behave the way they do and believe what they do. Often times they call it 'saving' people.

Going against the way of the world? Define 'the way of the world' and then we'll talk about whether they are or not.

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To truly be a Christian, you must live a life that is completely contradictory to that of the worlds. This is something very, very hard to do.
Again, define the way of the world. To live selflessly for others? To work in cooperation and give all to one superior being because it is the way to save one's self? Sounds like a part of the world I know; sounds like an ant colony.

And:

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We fear that god would not love us? He thinks that we'll see ourselves as ugly or bestial? Fat chance. Maybe some people see it that way, but not me. I certainly understand fearing that other people would spurn you but god? Never entered my mind. Never was that a despair of mine.

Blaming Satan for the small mean things in people? Giving god all the credit to god for the good we do? We are less than human then. We are but poorly played puppets whose strings are being pulled in by two puppeteers engage in tug of war. I don't buy into this all good comes from god crap. icon_scream.gif

Satan doing god's work. Not an original idea, but one with certain merits. Do you suppose then that god made satan so satan could suffer, make other people suffer, and test people? Purposely made a being he knew would eternally suffer?

Can you notice the change in your attitude? I sure can. Not only does it seem like your 100x more defensive, but you're out to make a point and bash our beliefs while doing it.

Now, Kaptain, let's have a look at you.

Alright. You, throughout your ENTIRE membership in this forum, have done nothing but oppose and bash what other people in this forum say. Not only that, but you've turned a certain number of topics that SHOULD NOT HAVE GONE OFF TOPIC into debates and flame wars.

What's the point of turning a "How you were saved" thread into a debate?

Okay.

Now let's have all of us look at something: Understanding.

There were some very obvious misunderstandings that caused all of these troubles. Some forum users here said things that you didn't agree with. You told them why you didn't agree. And then it turned into a Debate inside a thread, going very off topic.

Okay. So, we've completely tackled this the wrong way, haven't we? On both sides, too.

What I'd request is that when you have a disagreement with someone, you do not post about it in that thread; it only causes mindless spam that takes the thread away from it's original topic.

I'd ask that you make a completely new thread dedicated to your disagreement and your argument. But instead of turning it into a full fledged flame war, you ask why we believe what we do and tell us why you believe what you do. Simple. And it leads to understanding.

LISTEN TO THIS CLOSELY:

Your presence here is required. There is no use being faithful to God if we can not apply our beliefs when we must. You, by opposing what we think, give us a chance to think about what we believe and put it into words. With out you, there would be no chance for us to actually demonstrate our faith or our thoughts. There would be no ability to practice our faith in a structured environment such as this without someone who disagrees. So, what I'm saying is that WE REQUIRE YOUR PRESENCE. YOU HELP US.

Please do not take what I've said offensively; I just want these petty misunderstandings to end and the threads to become more clean. I think that not only would this organize the forums and threads a little more, but it would help us concentrate on problems and solve our misunderstandings more quickly.

Thank you for reading this, if you did. Please, remember the rules of this Guild. Thats all I ask.

Salaam~

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:12 pm

You raise very good points. I also agree that it's a good thing to have them here. Do you suggest that we take all the stuff thats gone off topic and just put it into another thread completely? I think that would be a good change smile Tahnbks for saying this...it really needed to be said.

ChikiMongo
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Soulstrike96

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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:36 pm

First off, without reading much of the op... yet: yes, I know my posts have changed. Mostly because I was in a bad mood when I wrote them. sweatdrop And sleepy. Haven't gotten much sleep in quite a while. All in all, far from my best work and not really expressing my points very coherently.

As for debates... well, that's what I used to do when I first joined gaia, about religion and many other things. I question the faith to see how you respond, to see what you can up with, see if I can find something you haven't thought of before. My pastor used to say that it is natural to question the faith and that doing such a thing can make one's faith stronger... or break it completely, as was my case. Make of my questions what you will, but at the very least I wish to stimulate some thought.

Side story- Do you know how I chose my name? 'Twas not for religious reasons. I simply thought that cleaving someone down to the very core of one's being (not that I really believe in a soul) was pretty cool. And the 96 part. 69 looks like the yin and yang, but I chose 96 because the direct clash of the opposing forces appealed to me more than the forces waning even as they are waxing. Two forces striking at each other. Neither giving way, neither being diminished as a result.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:57 pm

Chiki: No, leave the posts as they are. Hopefully after this things wont get out of hand.

Soulstrike: Thank you for listening. I must admit when I replied to both of your posts last night, I was tired and irritated too. Which is why I apologized after that really long one >_>;;

And yes, as I stated in the OP, we do require your presence. You challenge us; you make us think and apply our faith. That is very needed here. I thank you for that. I just ask that we go about it in a way that doesn't make it look like we're fighting.

Again, thank you.

Salaam~

MotherSky

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Soulstrike96

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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:54 pm

MotherSky

Chiki: No, leave the posts as they are. Hopefully after this things wont get out of hand.

Soulstrike: Thank you for listening. I must admit when I replied to both of your posts last night, I was tired and irritated too. Which is why I apologized after that really long one >_>;;

And yes, as I stated in the OP, we do require your presence. You challenge us; you make us think and apply our faith. That is very needed here. I thank you for that. I just ask that we go about it in a way that doesn't make it look like we're fighting.

Again, thank you.

Salaam~

Rather like a rivalry between enemies. You may not agree or even like the other person, but you cannot help but respect their abilities and grow stronger by constantly testing yourself against them.
ninja vs ninja

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:29 pm

I have not come here to bash in any way, nor have I bashed at all. Unless, of course, posting my own opinion in the politest way posible is bashing.

Bashing is going somewhere where there are a group of people that you don't like for the soul purpose of going against what they believe for no reason e.g "God isn't real so stop pretending that he is" or "I don't see why idiots believe in the Bible, I always thought fairy tales were for kids". In every one of my posts where I have put my argument forward, it has been constructed intelligently with the feelings of others in mind.

True, the topics can go off topic, but no one really replies to pm's at all in the first place and I'm not willing to send a pm to get a reply 2 days later. To be honest, I see that as kind of rude. If it is posted in a thread, others can look at it and say "Well yeah, I agree there but.." or "Yeah, you have a point there but I believe.." etc etc.

Take the example of the "How were you saved" thread. I really didn't know what it meant by being 'saved' at all so I asked. Why did I ask in the thread and not someone in a pm? Because everyone has a different view on it. Asking one personabout something which has many different opinions is pointless so in order to actually gain something from the thread, questions should be asked and opinions should be given. If I hadn't asked about what to be saved means, the thread would have had maybe 5 replies and then just died which would have been a shame seeing how you can learn from it.

Back to me opposing/bashing what people have to say, I don't do that at all. At least, not in the bad way you're making it out to be. As I said before, I do not bash. I could, but I haven't. I will openly admit that I oppose what some people say because that's not what I believe. Just because you believe something doesn't mean I have to believe in the same thing. We're all different, are we not?

tl;dr:

I'm not bashing at all, I'm simply posting my own personal opinions and views. Appologies if this is not allowed in this guild. I thought I would come here to learn and perhaps better myself but seeing as this is the second time I've been pointed out for having a different view, I'll probably consider leaving soon.

The Kaptain

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MotherSky

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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:22 pm

I really hope you read everything I posted Kaptain. I said that we require your presence.

I may have overstated myself when I said bashing--but you do indeed enter topics with a bad attitude sometimes. It seems as though you don't wish to listen at all--that you joined for the explicit purpose to state what you believe and deny everyone else a chance to tell you about what they do. You may agree with someone, as long as it's logical, but you only continue to spark debates in threads that do not need debate.

I did not say to discuss something you needed to PM.

I said that you needed to start a new thread. I.E. the "New Topic" button.

In a new Topic you can post and debate over anything you see fit, as long as it's not dragging other topics away from their original purpose. You're first post in "How you were saved" was sufficient enough; "I'm still waiting to be saved." However everything after that could have been taken to a different thread (I.E. "What do you think about Fate? What do you think About God and Providence?") And so on.

I only want to keep the threads on topic.

Salaam~

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:14 pm

The only issue I have is really with Kaptain. I am in full agreement with Mothersky on this issue that calling us into question is good and indeed necessary, but the manner in which you do this deviates from honest inquiry into the realm of accusitory and I would even go so far as to say inflamitory. We all here have spoken to you in deapth on these matters of faith and each time your comments carry a venom to them that really is unnecessary to asking true questions. Its my view.

Riviera de la Mancha

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The Kaptain

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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:24 am

MotherSky

I really hope you read everything I posted Kaptain. I said that we require your presence.

I may have overstated myself when I said bashing--but you do indeed enter topics with a bad attitude sometimes. It seems as though you don't wish to listen at all--that you joined for the explicit purpose to state what you believe and deny everyone else a chance to tell you about what they do. You may agree with someone, as long as it's logical, but you only continue to spark debates in threads that do not need debate.

I did not say to discuss something you needed to PM.

I said that you needed to start a new thread. I.E. the "New Topic" button.

In a new Topic you can post and debate over anything you see fit, as long as it's not dragging other topics away from their original purpose. You're first post in "How you were saved" was sufficient enough; "I'm still waiting to be saved." However everything after that could have been taken to a different thread (I.E. "What do you think about Fate? What do you think About God and Providence?") And so on.

I only want to keep the threads on topic.

Salaam~

I would have made a new topic but I was engaged in a conversation in the "How were you saved" thread and it's rude of me not ro talk back. I made a statement, I was engaged and then opinions were stated until the thread is what it is now. If you don't like that that's happened, then just ignore the conversation I'm part of in that thread. You're not being forced to read it so there's not much to complain about. All threads will, eventually, move off topic. Just do what other people do and deal with it.

Regarding me entering a topic with a bad attitude, you have no idea what my intention of the writing is. Everything that you see from the 'mood' of my writing is from your reading of it. I've never entered a topic with a bad attitude and I purposefully post all of my responses in the same mood as to avoid any conflict.

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