Welcome to Gaia! ::

Copied and pasted from another guild because I'm lazy. And because maybe you folks won't nitpick my examples. And because I can say the F-word in this guild. Lawlz.



This was one of my partner and I's more interesting early-morning conversations, so I thought I'd share it.

It starts with the idea of the Faust legend. For those of you who don't know the Faust legend...well, you should be ashamed of yourselves, but I'll explain. Keep in mind that, like most legends, this one has several versions, so if my explaination differs slightly from something you've heard...well, it doesn't really matter for the sake of this discussion.

Faust is an old man (usually a doctor of some sort) who is forced to realise his own mortality, which is a scary thing for him. For some time, he prays to God to bring him back his youth, but God does not answer, so Faust calls out to Satan in desperation, and Satan conveniently appears. Satan promises Faust youth, good looks, and the love of a beautiful woman if Faust will sign a contract (usually in blood for dramatic effect) saying that his soul is owned by Satan. Faust agrees, and although Satan makes good on his promises, things eventually go to s**t, as these things so often do, and Faust is dragged to hell.


The idea of one selling their soul to the devil is something that has become engrained in western literature. The story has been famously directly retold my Goethe, Christopher Marlowe, and Thomas Mann (all of whom have written a Doctor Faustus). Such themes can be see in the work of Oscar Wilde, Joseph Conrad, Washington Irving, William Shakespeare, and countless others.

But is the Faustian Contract really so fictional? I don't think so. I think there's a little bit of Doctor Faustus in all of us. The idea of giving up morals for pleasure and monetary gain can be seen easily in things like prostitution and drug abuse. The idea of eternal youth is something that has fascinated human beings for ages, and how many people do you know who have had a cosmetic procedure that makes them look younger, or at least use some kind of "anti-aging" product?

Everybody has a price. What's yours? What would it take to get you to turn back on something that you strongly believe in? Since I know that some of you are going to claim that you can't be bought, I'll throw out some examples.

1: Your best friend commits a crime, and a great deal of money is being offered by the authorities for information leading to the apprehension of the person who committed this crime. You've recently gotten accepted into the school of your dreams, but you cannot afford the tuition and didn't get teh scholarship that you needed to be able to afford to attend. But this money would mean that you could attend this school, which could quite possibly change the course of your entire life. All you need to do is turn in your best friend, who you've promised you'll keep secrets for. Would you give your friend up and go to the mazing school, or would you keep your friend's secret and try to forget about the school?

2: The person you love more than anything else in the world is in trouble and needs a great deal of money to be saved. Say, they've been kidnapped and are being held for an enormous randsom, or they're extremely ill and need to be taken to a very expensive specialist halfway around the world. Pick one. In any case, you don't have nearly enough money to save them. And then a company that you absolutely despise comes along and offers you an amazing job that would give you the money to save your loved one. The company's even offered to give you a pay advance so that you can have the money immediately, if only you'll sign a five-year contract with them. So would you support an organisation that you completely loathe and save your loved one, or would you stick by your principles and let your loved one die?


Feel free to come up with other examples that would be more relevent to your personal situations, or to tweak mine. I'm just curious what it would take people to abandon their morals. The situations can be pretty out-there (since neither fo the two that I gave are terribly likely to happen in real life), but what would tempt you to metaphorically sign away your soul?



EDIT: I realise that my examples are likely not something that would really happen, and the stupid examples are not the purpose of this discussion. Come up with better examples, if you want. PLEASE stop nitpicking the scenarios and talk about the actual topic, which is in what capacity you would sacrifice something you believe in. Seriously, people. I didn't have a spoon-feed on this one because I didn't think I needed it. Don't make me type one up.

Yeah, I think most people would agree that it depends on the crime and the circumstances under which it's committed.

But I'll get more specific, just to make things more interesting.

Say your friend stole a shirt from a store. Your friend isn't poor or homeless; they just liked the shirt and didn't feel like paying for it. The crime isn't really that serious in the grand scheme of things (the shirt was probably overpriced anyway), but your friend also didn't have a good reason to steal it, since it's just a material item that they didn't really need and they could have paid for it.

So, while your friend's actions may have been stupid, they didn't really cause any serious harm to anyone. It's not something like murder, but at the same time, your friend didn't steal to save their family or something dramatic like that.

So on the one hand, your friend was extremely stupid. You really want that reward money. That money could change your life, and if your friend just happens to be enough of a moron to give you a chance to have this money. But on the other hand...it's your best friend. You care about them. You've always kept each other's secrets, no matter what it is, and turning them in would probably ruin that friendship forever.

Okay, but how about this: the company that's offering the job is a company that's directly responsible for harming large amounts of people, and your job would facilitate that. I don't know if you've seen The Constant Gardner, but what if it was a company that used people in poor countries as test subjects for experimental drugs? What if your job was pivotal in allowing them to do that?

Would that still be a noble sacrifice? Facilitating the harm of many other people just so you can save one person that you love?

Hey, they don't have to be realistic. They can be totally fictional. Most fictional scenarios, even if they're really out-there, can be applied to some degree to daily life.

Actually, that's a really good example, and something that I think most people fall victim to at some point. Sure, nobody likes being manipulated and most decent people would agree that manipulating people is wrong...but what if it can get you things you want, even if it's just small things?

Yeah, again, really good example.

Eh, one person decided that rather than discuss the topic, she'd just try to find loopholes in my scenarios, and when I told her to stop reading into my examples so much, she got all huffy. *shrug*

And I didn't use the F-word in the first post. I meant that I can, in future posts, if I so choose. twisted

I really feel like I have sold my self/
like right now.
I had a great set up living with my sister going to a school were I felt I really belonged, doing stuff I loved. I was honestly never happier in my entire life. even on a bad day I still had a smile on. I had gotten away form all the bs my moms house had provided me with, When all of the sudden my mom asked me to come back home and watch my little brother and sister for the weekend, I did and have been there ever scence. Now I have given up what I called the perfect live to take care of my brother and sister because they need me. my mother is a very unrelible person who dosent have a job and lives off the money I get for my father being dead, and the child support money she gets for my youngest sister(most of it goes to the bar because she is down there 8+ hours a day) I feel like If I hadnt given up my happyness for TJand Nick the would have nothing but an empty house. And in a heart beat to save them I would honestly give everything I have, had and will have. There all that matters. so I guess when I come down to it I have a very low selling point

In response to the first question...I would try to work something out where they didn't get TOO harsh of a sentence. Because I only really have two good friends and I love them both dearly. I can't imagine either of them stealing something though.
Second question, without a doubt I would do something I despise to save the one I love. I would give up everything, including my morals. I might even go to jail/prison.
There are very few things that I would not do for her. She is my weakness, my hair if you will. Although I can't see myself entering a contract with Satan, doesn't doing the "sacrifice" void your contract, ala Constantine? xp