Was Lenin a Tyrant? | Page 3 | MCS: Marxism, Communism, Socialism | Guild Forums

Barciad

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Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:29 am

Firstly, thanks for the correction, I was never sure who actually said that.
Secondly, perhaps it is would to try and compare Lenin to anyone is what I expect from any sort of leader is not so much infallibilty (for no-one is capable of that), but honesty in recognising his/her mistakes and the humility to accept the view points of others.
Amd to be honest, I have yet to meet any leader of any kind who actually does that.
But if you really want comparisons, most possibly some sort of social-democratic leader (like Atlee for example). Now to compare Atlee to Lenin would be absolutely no contest. Atlee was given a landslide majority in 1945, so he had every right to do what he did. Lenin (or should I say the Bolshevicks) never had more than 15% of the Dumas before he seized control. So he never really had any kind of legitimacy if you want to see it that way.
Thirdly, my poll, was more of Evil, quite Evil, firm but fair plus taking into account the extremely extenuating circumstances.
Forthly, check my introduction. I can't think of any comments for that one.

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:33 am

Ahh now we are getting somewhere. It is a bit difficult to communicat. Or even lead a political discussion in a kids chatroom. Thanks for the explanation.

Evan DeVill

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Barciad

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Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:46 am

Evan DeVill

Ahh now we are getting somewhere. It is a bit difficult to communicat. Or even lead a political discussion in a kids chatroom. Thanks for the explanation.

No problems.

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:57 pm

Stalin only helped in the revolution because he knew if he befriended Lenin and the Soviets he could assert himself to power. Now an interesting thing about what someone said about "Not using gas chambers" He indeed did use gas chambers, there were reports of sending political prisoners into chambers where toxic gas was used to kill them. Stalin was by far worse than Hitler as a whole. Hitler didn't betray his own people "German or Austrian" He actually treated them with great respect (excluding any racial groups and the such) Stalin on the other hand killed more than 40 million of his own people through famine, and the purges. He attacked racial groups and minorities just like Hitler. I saw a documentary on Stalin and a lady said "My neighbors didn't pay their taxes to Boss Stalin, so Stalin sent troops into their house, and he took the wife into the street and shot her, the husband too was taken into the street and his face smashed into the concrete and then shot in the head. Then one of the soldiers took the baby and smashed its head on a wall.. they used the people as examples and filled all with fear." Stalin takes the cake on evil, historians estimate that Stalin could be responsible for the deaths of over 60 Million people.

Oni Nythe

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frankycastle2

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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:25 am

Lenin was defetly not any worse then any other revolutionary leader. Once you get to Stalin then yes Stalin was a crazy ruthless dictartor, but Lenin warned against Stalin before he died. I think that Lenin did what was neccasary for the cause.

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:01 pm

Lenin may have mad good ideas, but i can not think of him highly. I am russian orthodox, and he killed Czar Saint Nicholas II.

Querki

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SoViEtTaNkT34
Crew

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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:08 pm

frankycastle2

Lenin was defetly not any worse then any other revolutionary leader. Once you get to Stalin then yes Stalin was a crazy ruthless dictartor, but Lenin warned against Stalin before he died. I think that Lenin did what was neccasary for the cause.

Yes lenin did warn them about stalin the problem is Lenin couldnt speak by then and stalin took all his out going mail. Lenin wrote Furiously of letters to demote stalin asap.

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:11 pm

SoViEtTaNkT34

frankycastle2

Lenin was defetly not any worse then any other revolutionary leader. Once you get to Stalin then yes Stalin was a crazy ruthless dictartor, but Lenin warned against Stalin before he died. I think that Lenin did what was neccasary for the cause.

Yes lenin did warn them about stalin the problem is Lenin couldnt speak by then and stalin took all his out going mail. Lenin wrote Furiously of letters to demote stalin asap.

*sigh* Even after considerable brain damage, Lenin knew... Very sad if you think about it (not that I want to).

Phantom Stranger

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Barciad

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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:55 pm

sixhouradhesivestrip

Lenin may have mad good ideas, but i can not think of him highly. I am russian orthodox, and he killed Czar Saint Nicholas II.

To perceive Nicolas II as a saint seems on the same level as applying the same kind of praise to the likes of LouisXVI and Kaiser Wilhelm II. All staunch autocrats who really got caught up quite deservedly in the winds of history.

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:07 pm

Phantom Stranger

SoViEtTaNkT34

frankycastle2

Lenin was defetly not any worse then any other revolutionary leader. Once you get to Stalin then yes Stalin was a crazy ruthless dictartor, but Lenin warned against Stalin before he died. I think that Lenin did what was neccasary for the cause.

Yes lenin did warn them about stalin the problem is Lenin couldnt speak by then and stalin took all his out going mail. Lenin wrote Furiously of letters to demote stalin asap.

*sigh* Even after considerable brain damage, Lenin knew... Very sad if you think about it (not that I want to).

Yeah i know 2 strokes will do that to ya.. ( i believe it was the second stroke when he lost his speech)

SoViEtTaNkT34
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ComradeRedFerret

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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:10 pm

-Blind Guardian-

PhyscoRedFerret

Yes, but he didn't order there deaths completely intentionally. If they survived there term there free which were about 20% of the people there.

20% of a few million is nothing to be proud about. The truth is, he sent people to Gulags without the intention of releasing them. He expected them to die and have to have their place filled by others.

The worst thing is, most of the people there probably weren't even actual criminals.

Some of them were ordinary criminals, and they probably deserved, but like you said most didn't. Howver if there were no labour camps Russia would have never industrialized and Russia would have been overrun at the Nazi invasion

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:28 pm

"power itself doesn't corrupt. Power attracts the corruptable. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible" -Frank Herbert.

BushidoMercutio

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SoViEtTaNkT34
Crew

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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:32 pm

The problem with that statement is that was the democratic dictatorship of the proletarian and peasentry? That is a hard call because of how lenin would have to stablize the nation under a civil war and a war with poland. For Russia not to have been seperated I think a quick revolutionary dictatorship had to be in place or the whole country would have collapsed which was the whole reason why lenin put the dictatorship in the first place I believe.

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:26 am

That depends on the definition of tyrant we're using. By some definitions, yes, Lenin was a tyrant. However, in comparison to Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini & Co., he was nowhere near being a tyrant.
What's our definition?

Tevakh

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