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yeah, i was going to bring that up but... meh, you got it

I thought that was the foul version...

Seppuku sounds cooler anyway.

Sorry guys, few days ago I took awhile out of my day to type up responses and my sister shut off the computer o_o.

I felt discouraged about retyping, and even then I'm going to be much more economical about what I discuss. But I will say this. My question was mostly oriented on taking secular ideology and trying to figure out how someone can be pro choice. Most of these answers doesn't change my position.

Why does a woman matter? Why should anyone care about her in the first place.

I've been getting a lot of "Life has value" ideas. But that doesn't necessarily hinder one from being pro life. Why would a non religious, individual be pro choice? I think the direction of the topic while it is in fact interesting (discussing the whole meaning to life and whatnot), it's really not providing answers that help me understand.

The idea was mostly to assess, why women are valuable and to see if the ultimate reason could not also apply to fetii. As for women having sentience, many animals are sentient/are aware of themselves. There are then human children who are not always born sentient. And yet the ban of killing the child (if reason to be was based purely on sentience), would need to be lengthened for children already born who haven't developed it yet.

And yet, they would be upset at the killing of a newborn child who isn't sentient. And why is sentience valuable when other animals have it?



So does that give us the license to kill the mentally disabled? This ties back to a question I had earlier. We as humans don't even know what our purpose for being here is, why it is so important that we survive. There is no meaning that we've found for our will live. And for someone who answers "so we survive", to make what I said more specific "why we want it matters that we all survive". We haven't found an answer to that. So why should we consider her life as meaningful when we haven't found these answers. Meaningful to a society yes, but a society consisting of humans that have yet to find their purpose.

Real quotes...from real choicers.

"I think killing children under the age of 3 should be made ok. It's not like they have the capacity to remember things permanently."

"With all of the protestors, clinic bombers, people who assault clinic workers or those who have had an abortion, all in the name of 'Pro-Life', I seriously don't care if born infants die anymore."

Besides that sort of choicer, though, there's the fact that a pregnancy is what can "ruin" a woman's life, not just having an infant. You can have an infant and dump it in an adoption center, or drop it off at a police station or hospital. You can't do that when you're pregnant.

And I didn't say sentience. I said self-awareness, and not many animals have it. The people who value it often DO want to protect other animals that have it.

A mentally disabled person isn't "ruining" someone's life. And it isn't about pure survival. Women can survive pregnancies, and many people who are pro-life are willing to say that an abortion to save a woman's life isn't the same as an elective abortion. People who are pro-choice aren't just about saving a woman's physical life, but her lifestyle as well.

You don't need to know the answers to consider something meaningful or valuable, you just need to know the nature, even roughly, of that thing. Why do children want to keep on playing past their bedtimes, why do people want sex to last as long as possible, why do we keep eating good food even when we've eaten enough to keep us healthy? We enjoy it. A woman enjoys her life. That is where the value comes from. Why do we value her life? Why do we value her thoughts, her views, her feelings? Because we have compassion. It's part of being a human being.

3nodding

Also the argument that aborted babies go to Heaven, so why should you care?

Depends on the group of Christians, but most groups would say that they go to Heaven, I think, because it would be a pretty cruel God to send them to Hell just because they weren't given a chance to know Jesus. confused