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 Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:02 pm
Bah. This is why I prefer to stick to generic labeling of socialists/communists. Once you get into individual ideologies... often several times removed from its originator, there's just no ending to it.
And I couldn't agree more with one of Luxemburg's better quotes --
"Marxism is a revolutionary worldview that must always struggle for new revelations. Marxism must abhor nothing so much as the possibility that it becomes congealed in its current form. It is at its best when butting heads in self-criticism, and in historical thunder and lightning, it retains its strength."
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:47 am
Demon Kagerou Bah. This is why I prefer to stick to generic labeling of socialists/communists. Once you get into individual ideologies... often several times removed from its originator, there's just no ending to it. And I couldn't agree more with one of Luxemburg's better quotes -- "Marxism is a revolutionary worldview that must always struggle for new revelations. Marxism must abhor nothing so much as the possibility that it becomes congealed in its current form. It is at its best when butting heads in self-criticism, and in historical thunder and lightning, it retains its strength."See, I think we can all agree on this. Which is where we should keep our focus. And this will avoid us from making the labels too ridiculous as well, like how I sort of expect to meet a Marxist-Trotskyist-Leninist-Maoist... Or at least somebody who claims to be that.... Let's just stick with Communist, Socialist, and Marxist for now. Sure, they are different in semantics, but at least we have a good enough idea of what everyone stands for.
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:54 am
Newski You know, the more we argue between types of Marxism, the more we get off track, and the farther from revolution we really become.... I hate arguing this. I mean, I'm a guy who reads as much Lenin and Trotsky as I do Huey P. Newton (Black Panthers, for those who don't know). The last thing you want to argue about communists is is communism... It's like talking Christianity with Christians.... It's all about whose is better and whose is truer, and everyone forgets that they are united for the same goals. And no, I'm not a member. I really don't join any political organizations. Just collect literature. Oh, I DID join Campus Republicans for a film project. But that's a different issue altogether. You are very right and I agree with you on that very much, sommunist should not be argue over communism with other communst.. but sadly it happens. There is one exception though I do believe where communists can't get along and that would go under the lines of stalin. So I do honestly feel that it is very impossible for stalinsts and communists to agree or get along for very obvious reasons. I disagree with your choice though of not getting active. If we as communists, socialist etc, do not get active and not get together then we wil forever go on seperated living in capitalism and never helping things move in the direction of socialism.
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:11 am
Newski Demon Kagerou Bah. This is why I prefer to stick to generic labeling of socialists/communists. Once you get into individual ideologies... often several times removed from its originator, there's just no ending to it. And I couldn't agree more with one of Luxemburg's better quotes -- "Marxism is a revolutionary worldview that must always struggle for new revelations. Marxism must abhor nothing so much as the possibility that it becomes congealed in its current form. It is at its best when butting heads in self-criticism, and in historical thunder and lightning, it retains its strength."See, I think we can all agree on this. Which is where we should keep our focus. And this will avoid us from making the labels too ridiculous as well, like how I sort of expect to meet a Marxist-Trotskyist-Leninist-Maoist... Or at least somebody who claims to be that.... Let's just stick with Communist, Socialist, and Marxist for now. Sure, they are different in semantics, but at least we have a good enough idea of what everyone stands for. This is true and not so true and I think that is what I tried to say before. I felt that people were against me because I read trotsky and because we read Trotsky's works as well as Lenin's and Rosa's. I think people were grouping me and the group who I affiliate myself with, with those other so called "trotskyist" who act more like it is a dogma and not a science. I feel we must first liberate our minds, be able to read the works of certain people i.e. trotsky, and make our own opinions and for the people who swear by Lenin, they should probably read trotsky aswell even for the fact that they swear by Lenin, but while Lenin was alive he felt very highly of trotsky, probably more so than any other marxist alive at that time.Just something to keep people's minds open to other writters and other theories. I think that is all that I wanted to really say. The IMT may be known as a trotskyist group, but that is only because we also read trotsky and believe in many of his theories just as we read and believe in Lenin and the old bolshevik tactics. We should all be able to find the common grounds of communism like said by Newski. The longer we keep ourselves seperated from other communist groupings the longer the oligarcy has power over us. Although with that being said I do realize that it is immpossible to be able to agree and or even have a rational conversation with certain groups of communists who are extremly radical and just wont listen and will only yell and argue with you about the things that you do that they do not believe in.. Anyways I really urge people to check out the IMT and works by alan woods, Ted Grant. Also to learn about whats going on in Venezuela and try to push forward in your own communist group (if you belong to one) to take a stand defending the Venezuelan revolution.
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:47 am
Ransu Newski You know, the more we argue between types of Marxism, the more we get off track, and the farther from revolution we really become.... I hate arguing this. I mean, I'm a guy who reads as much Lenin and Trotsky as I do Huey P. Newton (Black Panthers, for those who don't know). The last thing you want to argue about communists is is communism... It's like talking Christianity with Christians.... It's all about whose is better and whose is truer, and everyone forgets that they are united for the same goals. And no, I'm not a member. I really don't join any political organizations. Just collect literature. Oh, I DID join Campus Republicans for a film project. But that's a different issue altogether. You are very right and I agree with you on that very much, sommunist should not be argue over communism with other communst.. but sadly it happens. There is one exception though I do believe where communists can't get along and that would go under the lines of stalin. So I do honestly feel that it is very impossible for stalinsts and communists to agree or get along for very obvious reasons. I disagree with your choice though of not getting active. If we as communists, socialist etc, do not get active and not get together then we wil forever go on seperated living in capitalism and never helping things move in the direction of socialism. I never said that I don't get active. I said I rather not get involved with groups. I follow them, I just don't join them.
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:17 am
Newski You know, the more we argue between types of Marxism, the more we get off track, and the farther from revolution we really become.... I hate arguing this. I mean, I'm a guy who reads as much Lenin and Trotsky as I do Huey P. Newton (Black Panthers, for those who don't know). The last thing you want to argue about communists is is communism... It's like talking Christianity with Christians.... It's all about whose is better and whose is truer, and everyone forgets that they are united for the same goals. And no, I'm not a member. I really don't join any political organizations. Just collect literature. Oh, I DID join Campus Republicans for a film project. But that's a different issue altogether. Your describing communist dogma as the same as christian or other petty religious foundations dogmas? PFFT there is no comparision seeing as the state has already absorbed christianity and religious morality into the state. Religion has no more purpose then as a tool.. nothing more. Its ideology is not growing it is very much weakened... 12% of Americans are Athiests.. around 50% of Europeans are Athiest and around 40% of Japan is Athiest. so "truer" will only come by which communist ideology has the final answer which simply means more testing must occur.
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:31 pm
SoViEtTaNkT34 Newski You know, the more we argue between types of Marxism, the more we get off track, and the farther from revolution we really become.... I hate arguing this. I mean, I'm a guy who reads as much Lenin and Trotsky as I do Huey P. Newton (Black Panthers, for those who don't know). The last thing you want to argue about communists is is communism... It's like talking Christianity with Christians.... It's all about whose is better and whose is truer, and everyone forgets that they are united for the same goals. And no, I'm not a member. I really don't join any political organizations. Just collect literature. Oh, I DID join Campus Republicans for a film project. But that's a different issue altogether. Your describing communist dogma as the same as christian or other petty religious foundations dogmas? PFFT there is no comparision seeing as the state has already absorbed christianity and religious morality into the state. Religion has no more purpose then as a tool.. nothing more. Its ideology is not growing it is very much weakened... 12% of Americans are Athiests.. around 50% of Europeans are Athiest and around 40% of Japan is Athiest. so "truer" will only come by which communist ideology has the final answer which simply means more testing must occur. You do know that the average of atheist in America is far higher than 12%, that is the total of the known. Far more fake being religious do in part from pressure of society. Also it was always a tool when religion is organized.
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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:37 am
Steven Hawkings SoViEtTaNkT34 Newski You know, the more we argue between types of Marxism, the more we get off track, and the farther from revolution we really become.... I hate arguing this. I mean, I'm a guy who reads as much Lenin and Trotsky as I do Huey P. Newton (Black Panthers, for those who don't know). The last thing you want to argue about communists is is communism... It's like talking Christianity with Christians.... It's all about whose is better and whose is truer, and everyone forgets that they are united for the same goals. And no, I'm not a member. I really don't join any political organizations. Just collect literature. Oh, I DID join Campus Republicans for a film project. But that's a different issue altogether. Your describing communist dogma as the same as christian or other petty religious foundations dogmas? PFFT there is no comparision seeing as the state has already absorbed christianity and religious morality into the state. Religion has no more purpose then as a tool.. nothing more. Its ideology is not growing it is very much weakened... 12% of Americans are Athiests.. around 50% of Europeans are Athiest and around 40% of Japan is Athiest. so "truer" will only come by which communist ideology has the final answer which simply means more testing must occur. You do know that the average of atheist in America is far higher than 12%, that is the total of the known. Far more fake being religious do in part from pressure of society. Also it was always a tool when religion is organized. Of course its higher the trend in the Western world is leading towards athiesm/science rather then petty religion. well one can say the state is a "tool" as well. What I meant by simply a "tool" is that it has been loosing power ever since the beginning of the bourgeoisie revolution. What I meant by mearly a tool is that it has lost so much power and support when it comes to members/ideology that it cannot be anything more than a mere tool for a State/bourgeoisie mentalitiy.
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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:17 pm
SoViEtTaNkT34 Steven Hawkings SoViEtTaNkT34 Newski You know, the more we argue between types of Marxism, the more we get off track, and the farther from revolution we really become.... I hate arguing this. I mean, I'm a guy who reads as much Lenin and Trotsky as I do Huey P. Newton (Black Panthers, for those who don't know). The last thing you want to argue about communists is is communism... It's like talking Christianity with Christians.... It's all about whose is better and whose is truer, and everyone forgets that they are united for the same goals. And no, I'm not a member. I really don't join any political organizations. Just collect literature. Oh, I DID join Campus Republicans for a film project. But that's a different issue altogether. Your describing communist dogma as the same as christian or other petty religious foundations dogmas? PFFT there is no comparision seeing as the state has already absorbed christianity and religious morality into the state. Religion has no more purpose then as a tool.. nothing more. Its ideology is not growing it is very much weakened... 12% of Americans are Athiests.. around 50% of Europeans are Athiest and around 40% of Japan is Athiest. so "truer" will only come by which communist ideology has the final answer which simply means more testing must occur. You do know that the average of atheist in America is far higher than 12%, that is the total of the known. Far more fake being religious do in part from pressure of society. Also it was always a tool when religion is organized. Of course its higher the trend in the Western world is leading towards athiesm/science rather then petty religion. well one can say the state is a "tool" as well. What I meant by simply a "tool" is that it has been loosing power ever since the beginning of the bourgeoisie revolution. What I meant by mearly a tool is that it has lost so much power and support when it comes to members/ideology that it cannot be anything more than a mere tool for a State/bourgeoisie mentalitiy. The east are in some areas, many in the Middle East and around it suffer from religious dogma built into th system that never left. As we know. Though if I may say the Middle East dosen't hate science they just add God or what ever the hell they call the it as the overall thing that controls it. Though really the use of God on the laws of thermal dynamics ect. is not needed since it just a means to make it exist.
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Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:28 am
Newski I never said that I don't get active. I said I rather not get involved with groups. I follow them, I just don't join them. If you follow does that not mean you are involved?? sweatdrop Anyways that is your choice to make. It reminds me of a young and very smart marxist in the small city where I am, he believes and has no problem in everything that we do and has no problem with us at all and no problem with any marxist writtings we use to educate ourselves or anything like that, but instead of just comming out once a week for a meeting to talk, plan and learn together he rather not get involved. which in the long run ends up helping no one. esspecially since we are the only marxist group in this whole area that I live. It is ultimatly his choice .. but sometimes i just can't help but think how much of a help he would be.
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Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:05 pm
trotskyites=Elitist revisionist menshevik poop! They are not even communist, they are just idealist bourgeoisie. ******** him and the ice pick he rode out on. Lmao , yeah that was cruel.
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