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 Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:27 pm
I never saw the point of executing the religious so long as they didn't form armed resistance against the state. I never really saw the need to abolish it either. If we firmly believe in what we speak,and we were doing it correctly then religion itself would no longer be a necessary institution and merely wither away.
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:55 pm
You ******** supporting this do realize you're supporting the idea of thoughtcrime, which is pretty much as anti-liberal as you can get. You're essentially acting as fascists and conservatives, though the conservativeness comes from extreme dogmatic understanding of your texts.
Seriously, you're ******** imbeciles.
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:27 pm
divineseraph which is pretty much as anti-liberal as you can get. This entire guild is as anti-liberal you can get.
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:40 pm
divineseraph You ******** supporting this do realize you're supporting the idea of thoughtcrime, which is pretty much as anti-liberal as you can get. You're essentially acting as fascists and conservatives, though the conservativeness comes from extreme dogmatic understanding of your texts. Seriously, you're ******** imbeciles. Woahhhh slow down there divine! Marxism is anti-liberal dude. Liberalism is viewed as a capitalist ideology. The way i see it is this: Religion developed as a social necessity due to the class struggle. If the main factor in the exitence of class struggle is abolished (private property) said institutions will simply wither away (such as the state and religion). I myself see no need to execute these people, for if the communists are doing their job right there is no need to. Besides I think Tank is only half-serious ;]
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:35 pm
Still, to say something so stupid is just plain stupid. To be so full of pointless hate (Note the pointless part) is just pathetic.
And how is liberalism, in the term of pro-democracy and general welfare anti-communist? I agree that many "liberal" politicians are as corrupt as the conservatives, but then, the so called "communists" in power are just as corrupt as the capitalists. But as it stands, communism is pretty much as left as it gets.
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:37 pm
divineseraph Still, to say something so stupid is just plain stupid. To be so full of pointless hate (Note the pointless part) is just pathetic. And how is liberalism, in the term of pro-democracy and general welfare anti-communist? I agree that many "liberal" politicians are as corrupt as the conservatives, but then, the so called "communists" in power are just as corrupt as the capitalists. But as it stands, communism is pretty much as left as it gets. To start with, what do you understand by 'liberalism'? (edit: And a little aside; liberalism and democracy are not 100% compatible, it's more like a balance where they try to shove each other for supremacy... but I'll wait for what you understand as liberalism before going any further. xD)
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:25 am
THE MARXIST POSITION: Marx The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo. Another way of saying it is that religion is an expression that this world sucks. Get rid of the sucky, and there is no social need and religion as an organised force will disappear of its own accord. In NK we find religion, whether in the form of Christian missionary churches or the semy-religious cult of *Leader because the conditions of life there are so utterly s**t. Contrast this to the DDR where the conditions of life were so much better and there were provisions for everyone (even if those provisions were bland), and there was simply no social room for religion. (we can also make comparisons between the DDR and Poland as well). For a more detailed, and lulzy, treatment, click this. It is a polemic against an islamophile group in the Australian Left "Socialist Alternative" that claims to Trotskyism (even though they are composed of elements who split from American Trotskyism in 1939-40, and then another batch from Enlgand who joined the first in the early 1950's). Trust me, even if you don't know the Australian left, it is an awesome-lulzy refutation and explanation of the marxist position on religion. Essentially an expanded version of this post dedicated to the crimes of one group.
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:50 am
Firstly, religion was created well before capitalism and capitalistic strife. There is nothing inherently wrong with it, unless it gets extremist. This goes with everything. Supporting the killing of people simply for a belief goes beyond stupidity. It goes to a level of idiocy that is far beyond any normal religious person and puts you at the exact same level, mentally, as the idiot taliban.
Grow the ******** up, nobody cares that you didn't get your bike for Christmas, so now you're rebelling against religion with death threats.
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:05 am
divineseraph Firstly, religion was created well before capitalism and capitalistic strife. There is nothing inherently wrong with it, unless it gets extremist. This goes with everything. Supporting the killing of people simply for a belief goes beyond stupidity. It goes to a level of idiocy that is far beyond any normal religious person and puts you at the exact same level, mentally, as the idiot taliban. Grow the ******** up, nobody cares that you didn't get your bike for Christmas, so now you're rebelling against religion with death threats. We understand this. But the thing you want to grasp is that religion as a way to soothe social tension against classes. Remember that classes have existed before capitalism. As quoted above, religion is a representation of the exploited classes misery. And as I've said before, not all communists advocate it's abolition.
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:14 am
divineseraph Firstly, religion was created well before capitalism and capitalistic strife. There is nothing inherently wrong with it, unless it gets extremist. This goes with everything. Supporting the killing of people simply for a belief goes beyond stupidity. It goes to a level of idiocy that is far beyond any normal religious person and puts you at the exact same level, mentally, as the idiot taliban. Grow the ******** up, nobody cares that you didn't get your bike for Christmas, so now you're rebelling against religion with death threats. soooo... Did you bother reading either the post above yours or the long post I copypastad from EDP? No, you didn't? Well, that was expected after this little block of BAAWWWing. You might want to try reading those posts before you BAAWWW like that again though.
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:16 am
Comrade Rob not all communists advocate it's abolition. My answer, depending on what you mean is "no, all of them do" or "no, none of them do." But hey, who am I to speak, I am not the commie pope or anything... rolleyes
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:35 am
Gracchvs Comrade Rob not all communists advocate it's abolition. My answer, depending on what you mean is "no, all of them do" or "no, none of them do." But hey, who am I to speak, I am not the commie pope or anything... rolleyes It's obvious you haven't read my posts either. I give very clearly why I feel its a foolish reason to abolish religion. If we're doing our job right, there is no need.
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:49 am
Comrade Rob Gracchvs Comrade Rob not all communists advocate it's abolition. My answer, depending on what you mean is "no, all of them do" or "no, none of them do." But hey, who am I to speak, I am not the commie pope or anything... rolleyes It's obvious you haven't read my posts either. I give very clearly why I feel its a foolish reason to abolish religion. If we're doing our job right, there is no need. No, what I mean is, it is unclear whether you advocate ignoring religion or... Well what you mean exactly. I get the 'why' but not exactly what you mean by 'abolish' which for me is the crux of the matter.
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:54 am
Gracchvs Comrade Rob Gracchvs Comrade Rob not all communists advocate it's abolition. My answer, depending on what you mean is "no, all of them do" or "no, none of them do." But hey, who am I to speak, I am not the commie pope or anything... rolleyes It's obvious you haven't read my posts either. I give very clearly why I feel its a foolish reason to abolish religion. If we're doing our job right, there is no need. No, what I mean is, it is unclear whether you advocate ignoring religion or... Well what you mean exactly. I get the 'why' but not exactly what you mean by 'abolish' which for me is the crux of the matter. Oh. Well, I would certainly cut its role in public affairs and such. After that, I see no point in giving the matter a second thought.
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:17 pm
divineseraph Firstly, religion was created well before capitalism and capitalistic strife. There is nothing inherently wrong with it, unless it gets extremist. This goes with everything. Supporting the killing of people simply for a belief goes beyond stupidity. It goes to a level of idiocy that is far beyond any normal religious person and puts you at the exact same level, mentally, as the idiot taliban. Grow the ******** up, nobody cares that you didn't get your bike for Christmas, so now you're rebelling against religion with death threats. Fun fact the Puritans banned Christmas because the holiday was not Christian but pagan which goes up against US ideology. No one can escape from ideology and the Church has been withering away since the Bourgeois took over. Communism is the final end game for Religious institutions. See its a more classical culture but if you had a more individualistic mode such as South Korea which also being technological would have a Huge impact on the Family unit. You see, since the development of the (Western) Bourgeois School I.E. the State taking over the school from the Church, the church has been withering due to a gradual ideological shift. This is because the Church and many other religions have lost there political positions due to the government stripping its purpose. A government now institutionalizes ideology through the structure of the school. It does not matter what nation, each 1st world and many others use the School structure for an ideological apparatus. The overall issue or problem is the same as the bourgeois, when the reactionary religious ideology which is found throughout the world for example Iran, Russia, and most famous argument...Tibet. Each has or in Tibet's case had religious governments and the only reason why Tibet monks are being "oppressed" is because they just want their power back.. IE the State IE the ideological apparatus. This cannot and should not happen within the 1st stage of Socialist progression after the revolution, period. If the 2nd stage has no religious institution aka "Bourgeois Right" then the 1st stage of Socialist progression must deal with such a task. Therefore the elimination of Christianity and other countless escapist ideologies is needed within the 1st stage. This is because at such a point these ideologies/institutions will be used by reactionary elements of the Bourgeois ideology and Feudal ideology.
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