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 Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:42 am
Just Tony GoA-Chan I don't agree with some of the things the bible teaches. BUT my religion has taught me to respect other religions, even if some of their beliefs are wrong in our eyes. When you say these things, this goes for anyone for that matter, try and be more specific. Give us examples of what you dislike or flat out hate. What do you not agree with? Try to go as in-depth as possible to further the debate and offer your opinions. We not only enjoy knowing when you dislike something, but most importantly why. So please, explain to us your views and qualms with Christianity and the Bible. One of the things I hate is their attitude towards homosexuality and how they claim it's an abomination. In Wicca faith, homosexuality is seen as another form of love. Also I never got the whole 'Adam and Eve' thing. If they were the first people on the planet, then woulden't that mean incest would have been involved with populating the planet?
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:41 am
GoA-Chan One of the things I hate is their attitude towards homosexuality and how they claim it's an abomination. In Wicca faith, homosexuality is seen as another form of love. Also I never got the whole 'Adam and Eve' thing. If they were the first people on the planet, then woulden't that mean incest would have been involved with populating the planet? Not all of us hate it, nor see it an abomination. It's considered a sin, Biblically, yes. But no more worse than any other sin, or at least shouldn't be. Some take it to extremes though. Perhaps as individuals, Christian or not, some of us see it as immoral and a form of perversion. As I've stated before, I've no qualms with it. I do have problems with adamant gay pride and self-victimizing gays that try to play martyr. I don't go for that. As far as Adam and Eve? I've thought that over myself before. I'm unsure how it honestly plays out, as I've not really placed much thought on creation or the notion of creationism. You'll have to ask someone else for that one, for I fall short there.
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:22 pm
Just Tony, thank you for going back and editing your response. I like your editing style. It is as if I saw you learning about my opinions. I went through a range of emotions as I read your response, I rather enjoyed it.
It is frustrating for me to think that I am being a clear and careful writer and find that I am not. I would just dismiss the problem as different people having different experiences, thereby, having different reactions to what we each write.
For example: I find myself becoming rather defensive in the "we are not property thread," and that serves no purpose.
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:57 pm
Just Tony GoA-Chan One of the things I hate is their attitude towards homosexuality and how they claim it's an abomination. In Wicca faith, homosexuality is seen as another form of love. Also I never got the whole 'Adam and Eve' thing. If they were the first people on the planet, then woulden't that mean incest would have been involved with populating the planet? Not all of us hate it, nor see it an abomination. It's considered a sin, Biblically, yes. But no more worse than any other sin, or at least shouldn't be. Some take it to extremes though. Perhaps as individuals, Christian or not, some of us see it as immoral and a form of perversion. As I've stated before, I've no qualms with it. I do have problems with adamant gay pride and self-victimizing gays that try to play martyr. I don't go for that. As far as Adam and Eve? I've thought that over myself before. I'm unsure how it honestly plays out, as I've not really placed much thought on creation or the notion of creationism. You'll have to ask someone else for that one, for I fall short there. this post comes to you in the form of a pop up! blaugh BooDoop
F.F. (fun fact)
Adam and Eve were the first humans God created, but that doesn't mean that they where the only humans he created.
The Bible doesn't specify on how many humans God created.
DooBoop
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:44 am
this post comes to you in the form of a pop up! blaugh BooDoop
F.F. (fun fact)
Adam and Eve were the first humans God created, but that doesn't mean that they where the only humans he created.
The Bible doesn't specify on how many humans God created.
DooBoop Oooohhh... That's pretty clever. I like that. @Zebulous: Yeah, I thought I'd leave the post as is to show myself for what I am. I can sometimes be an a*****e, an assuming a*****e at that. But I also like to check, double check and sometimes triple check my work, and other sources, to arrive at a better "truth" than what I first had. Sorry if I upset you in any way. Hopefully by the end of the post you'll see I corrected myself and absolved you of anything mentioned in the original post. As far as getting defensive and aggravated and the such during these threads, it happens. We're only humans. The anarchy thread sometimes annoys me, and I'm the one that started it! Haha. It just happens man.
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:19 am
{{First off, I'll start by saying I'm a christian. You can stop reading now if you want to.}}
I attend a church (for now) that won't fully accept you unless you become a member through baptism, tithe regularly, and suck up to the most powerful and important people in the church. What makes this really hard for me is the fact that I'm the 23 year old preacher's wife. My church expects me to be this almighty individual just because my husband is the pastor of the church. Therefore, I see why so many of you have problems with christianity. Please keep in mind that christianity was never meant to be like this....human beings have made it this way.
I could talk all day about the multiple problems I see with church institutions and with christians (especially those who condemn other people). But the bottom line is that we're all human beings. We make mistakes EVERY day...we sin every day. God forgives us all. If christians were more accepting of EVERYONE, the world would be a much better place. But before this can happen, christians have to realize that they themselves make mistakes and that they're not any better than someone who is not a christian. That's probably hard for most of the christian population to admit.
Lastly, I'll end by saying that I'm not perfect, therefore I won't tell anyone else that they're doing wrong. That's none of my business. I can only look at my life and try my hardest (and fail multiple times) to do what's right. And I can only hope and pray that I don't turn people away from God...because I feel like each and every one of you can probably think back to a particular moment (or maybe multiple moments) and say, "That's why I don't believe in God." Maybe it was something a person did or said to you that made you turn away from christianity...or maybe you look at the christian population in general and disagree with what you see.
If anyone ever wants to talk, pm me. Please keep in mind that not all christians are the condemning type!!
heart
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:41 am
Very well said, especially defending something it seems is popular to hate almost, as is Twilight, emo/scene kids, etc. I think some people fail to understand that. It's good, here, that for the most part, we're all allowed to give our own religious testimonials and speak for ourselves and our opinions and experiences. I just hope that others understand the purpose of this "debate" is to see both sides, and even grey areas of the issue, and perhaps see others' opinions as valid, and better still, learn from them. I'm glad to have you around aye.
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Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:23 pm
The man behind the mask: Omnipotent, i believe, was the word you were looking for in your first post. ^-^
Alright, i am 17 and until a few months ago i had gone to church almost every sunday of my entire life. its just the way i was raised. my mom is intensely catholic and raised her children to be the same. Ive gone through quite a few rough patches in my life and everytime id pray to "God" to help me and id look for anything he might be sending me and i got nothing. eventually i just learned to do things on my own. my mother is quite scary and finally i got up the courage to tell her i was athiest. she literally laughed in my face and simply told me id be going to church in the morning.
Needless to say the next morning there was an..altercation of sorts but i did not go to church and havent been since, other than christmas becuase it was the one thing she wanted. i think she was expecting me to find something there that i had been missing but it was just as unbelievably suffocating as usual. maybe its just because im naturally opposed to conformity or because im a typical teenager but i think that most religions are crock and a way of showing control but thats just my opinion :]
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Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:27 am
frozenblueberries126 The man behind the mask: Omnipotent, i believe, was the word you were looking for in your first post. ^-^ Alright, i am 17 and until a few months ago i had gone to church almost every sunday of my entire life. its just the way i was raised. my mom is intensely catholic and raised her children to be the same. Ive gone through quite a few rough patches in my life and everytime id pray to "God" to help me and id look for anything he might be sending me and i got nothing. eventually i just learned to do things on my own. my mother is quite scary and finally i got up the courage to tell her i was athiest. she literally laughed in my face and simply told me id be going to church in the morning. Needless to say the next morning there was an..altercation of sorts but i did not go to church and havent been since, other than christmas becuase it was the one thing she wanted. i think she was expecting me to find something there that i had been missing but it was just as unbelievably suffocating as usual. maybe its just because im naturally opposed to conformity or because im a typical teenager but i think that most religions are crock and a way of showing control but thats just my opinion :] Religions can take turns for the worse and become tools of corruption and control. I work in a Pagan store, now as an online web store assistant, and later I'll be a social networking clerk. I see some use religion for profit, which I don't necessarily agree with, but anything can be sold to someone I suppose. Just like I do not understand how Bibles should be sold for money. I think they should be freely distributed, and printed by donations or simply one's own good will. I can understand where you are coming from. Seeing as you are in that environment, it can be forced, and you can lose touch with Jesus, or any sense of spirituality for that matter. I didn't find God the first run I had with Christianity six years ago. I didn't feel Him or His presence, so I turned to other faiths, sometimes thinking I'd found something, but over time it became emptiness, as if I only found temporary solutions and was almost being misled. Years later, I would find God through His revelations to me working through other people, which through their deeds and His book, is how I came to find Him. As stated, I believe He revealed Himself to me, and had it planned. It's written that even before I am born, He knew me. So why not have a plan? It sounds as if you're dealing well with the situation. You're not too angsty and judging of those that do have faith, so it's good. Maybe no faith is for you, or maybe someday you will find something. It's hard to say. If it's any consolation, even during the Catholic Church's heyday, or what is generally described as such, there were those that stood opposed to its ways that were condemned and destroyed for their thoughts and ideas. It goes to show that some followers of Christ can be wonderful, do great things and exemplify that which is good. But also that others are wicked, corrupt, and know not the love of God no matter how much they may think they do. Faith cannot be forced. Salvation cannot be bought. Anyways, great to hear your own story. Take care.
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Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:19 am
My issue is with the morality and benevolence of God. I think that the only god worth worshiping would be a benevolent god and I cannot view the Christian God as such. I'll try to keep the subject brief though. If the Bible is true, then God has killed thousands of people(Sodom and Gammorah, The Flood, The Plagues) and ordered them killed (giving Israel to the Jews and ordering all the resident people slaughtered). Should those cases be true, then God would not be benevolent because he is violating his own Commandment. The argument for the greater good isn't applicable because as God would be Omnipotent, he had the ability to make all those people sterile, or transport them to other places so they don't effect the "good" people. He purposely chose to do a sin even when there were options that accomplished the same thing without sinning. Should these be lies and God never did any of these instances, then God would also not be Benevolent because he is allowing His Word to be corrupted, allowing people such as myself to be led away from Him based on morals that He said was good, condemning those people to hell. These actions do not lend him respect from me should he actually exist. I don't accept people because they are more powerful than myself, I see no reason to start doing so with a person that may or may not exist.
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:18 am
I was raised in a christian household, my parents and siblings are still christian. I left the faith when, at church, I asked questions of our then pastor. He told me that I shouldn't ask questions and just do what he told me the bible said. The same thing happened to me when I visited other area churches and sked similar questions. I am presently with out a set religion. I'm an ecelitic pagan and like it that way. I am much happier now then I ever was at church. I always had that, this doesn't fit, feeling. I know and work with some wonderful christians and know that not all christians are the same. I try to take each person as an individual regardles of race, faith, sexual orientation, what have you. I know that I have and will fail at this, but I at least make the attempt.
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Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:55 pm
Martin Luther, October 31st, 1517... Posted his 95 theses against selling salvation. This was the beginning of what would become the Reformation, but it didn't start out that way. Martin Luther said that the only authority by which we should live our faith is the Bible, not by the cathecism of the Church, in this case Catholic church as was the authority, or generally known. I believe he was a vessel of God, to bring to light to us the idea that man will, can and has made corrupt the ways of Christ by perverting the interpretation of Christ's words and teachings. Before Martin Luther's translation of the Bible into German, it was mostly only available in Hebrew, Greek and Latin. This would mean that no ordinary person was free to study and learn faith through their own. What this caused was a great distance seen in Christianity today, when one does not have a personal relationship with God. One of the biggest issues with Christianity today, is that churches spend too much time talking about God, and its inhabitants spend too much time learning about God. All of this is done, but so little is done to actually have a relationship with Him. I read a testimonial that I'll share with you here in a minute. I have to say it's as true for them as it was me. Paganism made me learn to live my faith and embrace it. God called me to Him after an initial failed attempt to follow Him when I were younger, 15/16, when I was foolish and could not yet understand. But I've grown much since then, and underwent a few other religions and series of practices befoe arriving to where I am today. So I appreciate what I've gone through. Here, let me share the link. http://www.spiritwatch.org/pagtest1.htmAs per God's plans and the Old Testament... Well, I can know of God, but I cannot know God in the sense I know His plans or thoughts. To want that or do that, would be to be God or be like God, and that is too prideful for myself. I am content being human, not divine, as that is what I was born to be. Perhaps, however, if in the end I do in fact actually reach Heaven, maybe I will be rewarded the gift of becoming an angel to better serve life on earth. But that is just me. I know I'm not perfect by any means, but I am honestly trying to open up more and put more work into the two commandments Jesus spake. To love the Lord, thy God with all the strength of our hearts, minds and souls, and of course to love thy neighbor as thyself. Which means I must let go of my judgments and learn to forgive more than I am capable all ready. It's a work in process, but one I'm willing to undertake. To God the glory, His will done on earth as it is in Heaven. Amen.
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Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:30 pm
In my opinion Christianity is not bad or the "Wrong religion".
It's the megachurches and the greed that makes it sometimes as bad as some of the cults.
If the preachers are corrupt then the followers get wrong information.
I don't like how occasionally someone gets an almost god complex and claims that Jesus talks to them.
I also don't like the history behind either of the Judeo/Christian/Muslim beliefs.
The worst part is the fact the Bible contradicts itself.
It says to love yet some of the followers will alienate you if your gay or another belief or god forbid a non-believer.
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Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:31 am
@ faulic I have cats, there are rules I have made for my cats. Such as, "thou shalt not be upon the dining room table." The cats see me eat at the table and don't understand that they are to stay off of the table. The cat's don't see the difference between myself and themselves. The table rule doesn't apply to me because I am not a cat. It is against the law for children (below a certain age) to drive cars. I am not a child, so that law doesn't apply to me. Similarly sins are things that God doesn't want humans to do. As far as I know, Jesus would have to commit a sin in order for God to commit a sin, because Jesus is the part/aspect of God that is human.
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Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:43 pm
I suggest the book One True Doctrine for anyone wishing for a complete book of ammunition to dethrone Christianity. I read it, and it taught me a good deal about the history of my book's stories, and brought to light some interesting things. However, I still feel called by God, and my faith is strong. I also point the irony that they attack my faith as "stealing" everything within it, yet claim their respective cultures or pantheons are not, and do not speak up to deny they may as well be borrowed from older cultures and pantheons. Either way, I've read the book myself and am suggesting it. The benefits to working in a Pagan store are wonderul. One of them was my trip to Washington, D.C. earlier this week to film a Pagan ritual at the Jefferson Memorial to bless Obama. If you don't believe me... http://www.youtube.com/magicktvI make a cameo for a few seconds starting at around 00:25 if anyone wants actual proof, haha. Oh yes, here is the information on that book. One True Doctrine by James Babeckis and Benita A. Chapman. Not a bad read if you want to know the more probable origins of Judaeo-Christian theology. Sorry I've been away. Work and my trip earlier this week left me little time for being here. Have a blessed day.
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