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 Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:23 am
Styrene Indian reservations are a completely different story because they are exempt from laws. And in my state, the legal adult age is 17. Also, if we're going to be talking about jail, everyone can go to jail and spend a night before getting transferred. Prison is a different story. And as for me drinking right now, it goes along with my drinking problem that started a while ago that is thankfully diminishing. It isn't an 'immediate stop' kind of thing. I also speed occassionally and don't wear my seatbelt 24/7 when sitting in the front seat. I suppose that I should drive to the police station every time I do that too? I can defend something even if I don't practice it. Just because I don't do everything that I should be doing does not mean that it is not the right thing to do. Okay, just because in "your state" you're an adult at 17 ect doesn't mean that in some other states these laws are true. and when you're a under 18 you don't get booked into actual jail, you get put in a holding cell. I'm sorry I didn't state that in some states, I thought the US was a good enough general term. I guess I made a mistake. These laws are true in some states in the US and the majority of them are what I've had to live under. I don't agree with a lot of them and for the ones I don't agree with I have a strong understanding of why things are that way. For the ones I don't agree with I'm going to oppose them. I'm not going to break the law with no reason behind it. Yes I agree defend what you want. But why not defend what you are practicing? I'm sorry but all the 18 year olds I know and did know when I was 18 are pretty mature, you're acting like we are talking about 16 year olds. If we can make these other decisions then we should be aloud to make that decision as well. The decision maker is YOU. No matter how much peer pressure there is...you are the one deciding what you are doing. There are programs that help alcohol abusers and such that can help and you are the only one that can make that decision. Stop and care for yourself if you need too, or stop and help someone else. "I can die for my country but can't enjoy a beer while doing it" I've herd that quote so many times!!! And I agree! If you can decide to die for your country you should be able to decide if you want to get drunk. Change the recruiting age to 21 then.
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:26 am
I'm 16 and my mom has no idea that I've had more than the sips of beer she's let me have. Then again, I don't get in trouble so she's never had any reason to check or care...
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:32 am
No matter the age, its figure doesn't inherently suggest a certain level of responsibility and maturity anyways. Twenty-one is a good guess, but who by that time hasn't all ready been drinking that's going to buy alcohol anyways? Usually those who worry over the matter being illegal are those who wish to consume more alcohol than they all ready do, or wish to legally get it to be drunk more often. Of course, that's a rough and probably extreme generalization. But, I think it's a good thing there exists an age for the situation, though as previously stated, it doesn't really matter.
You must also be twenty-one to own and purchase handguns due to their concealability. But I believe it's at sixteen one can purchase and own shotguns and rifles. Laughable a bit, methinks.
Edit: At least in Illinois, observing state-by-state laws.
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:51 am
Quite frankly, Americans by and large are immature. We have a substantial party culture among the younger crowd. You see even now how massive the amount of teen drinking, hazing, drunk driving and alcohol poisoning there already is with the age at 21. If the age were lowered that problem would become even more pervasive. It's just the way the culture is at this point in time. Most other countries view alcohol as an occasional treat or a supplement to dinner or a celebration, not "go out and get shitfaced" near to the degree that we do. When you see these lower drinking ages, they're often graduating rights, not just a blanket "when you turn x you have unlimited access". When you hear of a drinking age being 16, that often refers to the ability to have 1 drink in a family or dining setting. They do allow drinking to be at the parents discretion. However, we don't have that kind of respect and structure as other cultures do. We are a far more repressed, puritanical society, which causes our youth to be more erratically rebellious and thus more irresponsible and dangerous.
When I was under 21, I did enjoy a drink or two under parental supervision, but usually under the circumstance of wine with dinner or champagne at New Year's. Now my sister was and still is offered that same privilege, however she is decidedly more irresponsible and flippant about the allowance and I fully expect her to become an alcoholic when she turns 21, because she does possess the unfortunately common trait of voracious instant gratification selfishness that most of the youth do which would make lowering the drinking age far too dangerous for society as a whole. When I was under 21 I did resent the drinking age because I did think it wasn't fair that only "adults" should be allowed to enjoy wine with dinner, etc, but then I see my sister and the millions like her and I do think it's the right choice.
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:57 am
Lexia_Starr Quite frankly, Americans by and large are immature. We have a substantial party culture among the younger crowd. You see even now how massive the amount of teen drinking, hazing, drunk driving and alcohol poisoning there already is with the age at 21. If the age were lowered that problem would become even more pervasive. It's just the way the culture is at this point in time. Most other countries view alcohol as an occasional treat or a supplement to dinner or a celebration, not "go out and get shitfaced" near to the degree that we do. When you see these lower drinking ages, they're often graduating rights, not just a blanket "when you turn x you have unlimited access". When you hear of a drinking age being 16, that often refers to the ability to have 1 drink in a family or dining setting. They do allow drinking to be at the parents discretion. However, we don't have that kind of respect and structure as other cultures do. We are a far more repressed, puritanical society, which causes our youth to be more erratically rebellious and thus more irresponsible and dangerous.
When I was under 21, I did enjoy a drink or two under parental supervision, but usually under the circumstance of wine with dinner or champagne at New Year's. Now my sister was and still is offered that same privilege, however she is decidedly more irresponsible and flippant about the allowance and I fully expect her to become an alcoholic when she turns 21, because she does possess the unfortunately common trait of voracious instant gratification selfishness that most of the youth do which would make lowering the drinking age far too dangerous for society as a whole. When I was under 21 I did resent the drinking age because I did think it wasn't fair that only "adults" should be allowed to enjoy wine with dinner, etc, but then I see my sister and the millions like her and I do think it's the right choice. You're good. I applaud your reasoning and well spoken statements. Anyone else following her ideas here? She spoke of the civility, and even compared us to other nations. Something I didn't do in my post. And I do believe she's on to something. Anyone wanting to debate our civility on alcohol consumption compared to that of other nations? Could be interesting. I haven't lived there personally, but I think that even Germany's love for beer may not make it as bad as our country. Except with the exception of Oktoberfest of course. That's similar to our Mardi Gras, but even then still much more civilized it appears. Odd that.
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:49 am
Just Tony Lexia_Starr Quite frankly, Americans by and large are immature. We have a substantial party culture among the younger crowd. You see even now how massive the amount of teen drinking, hazing, drunk driving and alcohol poisoning there already is with the age at 21. If the age were lowered that problem would become even more pervasive. It's just the way the culture is at this point in time. Most other countries view alcohol as an occasional treat or a supplement to dinner or a celebration, not "go out and get shitfaced" near to the degree that we do. When you see these lower drinking ages, they're often graduating rights, not just a blanket "when you turn x you have unlimited access". When you hear of a drinking age being 16, that often refers to the ability to have 1 drink in a family or dining setting. They do allow drinking to be at the parents discretion. However, we don't have that kind of respect and structure as other cultures do. We are a far more repressed, puritanical society, which causes our youth to be more erratically rebellious and thus more irresponsible and dangerous.
When I was under 21, I did enjoy a drink or two under parental supervision, but usually under the circumstance of wine with dinner or champagne at New Year's. Now my sister was and still is offered that same privilege, however she is decidedly more irresponsible and flippant about the allowance and I fully expect her to become an alcoholic when she turns 21, because she does possess the unfortunately common trait of voracious instant gratification selfishness that most of the youth do which would make lowering the drinking age far too dangerous for society as a whole. When I was under 21 I did resent the drinking age because I did think it wasn't fair that only "adults" should be allowed to enjoy wine with dinner, etc, but then I see my sister and the millions like her and I do think it's the right choice. You're good. I applaud your reasoning and well spoken statements. Anyone else following her ideas here? She spoke of the civility, and even compared us to other nations. Something I didn't do in my post. And I do believe she's on to something. Anyone wanting to debate our civility on alcohol consumption compared to that of other nations? Could be interesting. I haven't lived there personally, but I think that even Germany's love for beer may not make it as bad as our country. Except with the exception of Oktoberfest of course. That's similar to our Mardi Gras, but even then still much more civilized it appears. Odd that. A lot of people misinterpret the USA's maturity because of what we and other countries are shown on TV (media, MTV-vomits-, Disney, ect). "We" made ourselves this way by listening to the damn thing, and the mental prison we have placed on each other. She's had the best explanation thus far. If it were to be lowered we as the youthful society would have to earn that right. A bit about how I actually feel: In all honesty, I really don't care that the drinking age is 21. I never drink to get drunk, and I see how crazy people get when I lived in Winona, a town with 3 colleges, more bars then churches (and there's a lot of churches), and a town pirate. But also its easy to get into bars under age there and the topic is brought up a lot around my friends so I brought it up. Also I'm going to defend what I do. I love me a few cold beers and a glass of wine on occasion! I do end up getting drunk but i usually stop myself from getting hammered. maybe I belong in another country. I found myself debating more on what the other laws were then the drinking age oopsy. sorry, I hope this all makes sense I'm tired.
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:49 am
Another note to Styrene: You can get drunk in the Military on base, I don't know where you got your information.
[[Plus I wasn't saying that you should be aloud to drink while in the service. I was saying that if you are aloud to make the choice to join, you should be aloud to make the choice on whether you should consume alcohol.]]
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:20 am
Maturity: some 16 year olds have it, some 18 years old have it, some 21 year olds have it. For those who don't, we find that they abuse alcohol for the sheer fact that they are rebelling against a parental figure or laws set forth by the government , which makes them "accepted" and "cool" among todays youth and society.
I know 16-18 year olds who go out to get drunk because their parents tell them continously not to do so. Would the problem be fixed if parents weren't telling them every five seconds that they shouldn't drink? Maybe. The point is, these individuals haven't been given the option to decide for themselves whether or not they want to drink or get drunk...they've been told not to do so by their parents or by the government. Therefore, maturity over the issue hasn't been developed yet.
I'm 23 years old, and I remember trying alcohol when I was around the age of 16. Honestly, I found it to be okay...but I didn't ever think about getting drunk or wanting to drink more (at the time). My parents never told me to not drink it...therefore, the idea of rebelling never came up, so I didn't. Also, I was probably one of the biggest nerds in high school (we're talking "band geek" and all). My friends didn't party, therefore I didn't either. The issue of trying to fit in socially among my peers wasn't present in my life. I had my friends, and that was that. However, you find many underage individuals who are looking for acceptance (especially now...the pressures of "fitting in" are more prevalent now than they were even 5 years ago). Therefore, the idea of drinking isn't a personal choice...it's more of a social choice...or one fueled by rebellious intentions.
Get rid of the drinking age, the social pressures, and the parents who don't want their children to have a mind for themselves, and we'll probably solve the problem. This would create a perfect society, which we all know isn't going to happen. We will probably not get rid of the drinking age and I seriously doubt it will ever be lowered, society is not going to lift the pressures it has placed on underage individuals, and some parents will always try to control their child's decisions because they feel "they know what's best."
This is a great topic, though, and many people have brought up interesting points. I agree with the whole issue of maturity needing to be present before anything else can be discussed.
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:07 am
Alcohol, in general, is just a bad idea. That being said, I don't think there should be a age limit. Kids are going to drink if they want to, and the limit is going to persuade them to drink, in the seance that they are now "stickin' it to the man." However, there should also be much stricter legal penalty agents people if they are drunk and commit a crime, if you can't control yourself or get a buddy to help you out then don't drink!
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:38 pm
Jacki Kane Another note to Styrene: You can get drunk in the Military on base, I don't know where you got your information. [[Plus I wasn't saying that you should be aloud to drink while in the service. I was saying that if you are aloud to make the choice to join, you should be aloud to make the choice on whether you should consume alcohol.]] That's what I was saying. Do you know how many people are in the military, under 21, and not living at a base (but in their mother's basement) and still complaining about not being able to drink? A ton. I think we were talking about different things. You: Choice to join. Me: Actually joining and doing something with it. Either way, the military is on the opposite end in its reasoning. They like to choose young, not fully aware, people because they can be easily trained and brainwashed (not a nice word, but essentially what they're doing).
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:40 pm
BloodyxMarie Styrene BloodyxMarie Styrene BloodyxMarie In my opinion, there shouldn't be a drinking age. It should be up to the child's parents to decide whether or not the kid can get a drink. I think this because kids tend to like to rebel. When they rebel, they cause trouble. Another reason is that if you are only able to do it once in a while, it's always fun, but if you are allowed to constantly do something, over time, the novelty wears off. I'm not saying this is true in every case, but it happens. Another reason is because one I know a lot of people who do things like drink under-age because they think it makes them look cool. There are also kids that I know who are already drinking at 15 years, with their parent's consent. Valid point. The parents should be responsible enough to choose what to do with their kids. But then who would control buying it? The parents cannot be around constantly to see if their kid is obeying their wishes. Then only allow adults to buy it. But ultimately, it should be the child's choice to drink or not. If their parent's disagree, then the parent's should punish their child. So which adult age are we talking about? 17, 18, 21, 25? Damn! I would have never fallen into that trap if I wasn't so tired! I'll get back to you tomorrow. I'm tired. Now that I've had time to think things over, store owners should have the right to tell you that you can't buy alcohol there if you're under 13. Because, really, I hardly know anybody under 13 who goes out to the store anyway, even for candy.
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:13 pm
Styrene Jacki Kane Another note to Styrene: You can get drunk in the Military on base, I don't know where you got your information. [[Plus I wasn't saying that you should be aloud to drink while in the service. I was saying that if you are aloud to make the choice to join, you should be aloud to make the choice on whether you should consume alcohol.]] That's what I was saying. Do you know how many people are in the military, under 21, and not living at a base (but in their mother's basement) and still complaining about not being able to drink? A ton. I think we were talking about different things. You: Choice to join. Me: Actually joining and doing something with it. Either way, the military is on the opposite end in its reasoning. They like to choose young, not fully aware, people because they can be easily trained and brainwashed (not a nice word, but essentially what they're doing). I was trained alongside men twice my age, some in their thirties, fourties... But many were young. We weren't brainwashed into thinking we were worthless or to follow all orders without thinking. Drill Sergeant Shafer said he wanted us to follow orders, but more importantly in the field he wanted us to think. He wanted us to be safe. Anyways, it was a good thing that happened to me.
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:19 pm
Jacki Kane ReRe_is_sweet It is legal at 18 here. Also, you have vote on there twice. oopsy! Yes, that's another point...other countries have lower drinking ages. Canada and Mexico both and the USA is right in between. I can't wait until Obama becomes president so I can be proud to be from my country again. You live in Australia?
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:56 pm
Physiologically, humans are not able to plan for their futures and make decisions in that light until they are around age 25. So, while I think it's all fine and good that we want the right to drink added to our rights to vote (which we don't use), to smoke, to speak, to believe, etc..., maybe the waiting won't kill you.
On the other end, making something illegal makes people want to do it, if only for the thrill of being outside the law. So, maybe lowering the age would cut down on the number of crimes that are registered for alcohol use by minors. Would that world be a lot more fun for people to live in? You betcha, between binge drinks and alcoholism... Would that world be safer?
Alcohol is marked as a chemical depressant. Rap the military if you want to, Jacki... but I think that the point is that it messes with brain function. And that's not something that anyone wants in their system when they need to think clearly. Obviously, if they're living in their mother's basements and complaining about the rules they have to follow, they have not been indoctrinated or brainwashed into believing that everything they hear is true. Which goes to Tony's experience in training.
Too many angles to come to a good opinion. Knowing how people at my school drive when they're sober, I'm not inclined to legalize them getting access to something that might endanger my life secondhand. Call it selfish, but I actually do like living my life.
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:04 pm
talcar69 Physiologically, humans are not able to plan for their futures and make decisions in that light until they are around age 25. So, while I think it's all fine and good that we want the right to drink added to our rights to vote (which we don't use), to smoke, to speak, to believe, etc..., maybe the waiting won't kill you. On the other end, making something illegal makes people want to do it, if only for the thrill of being outside the law. So, maybe lowering the age would cut down on the number of crimes that are registered for alcohol use by minors. Would that world be a lot more fun for people to live in? You betcha, between binge drinks and alcoholism... Would that world be safer? Alcohol is marked as a chemical depressant. Rap the military if you want to, Jacki... but I think that the point is that it messes with brain function. And that's not something that anyone wants in their system when they need to think clearly. Obviously, if they're living in their mother's basements and complaining about the rules they have to follow, they have not been indoctrinated or brainwashed into believing that everything they hear is true. Which goes to Tony's experience in training. Too many angles to come to a good opinion. Knowing how people at my school drive when they're sober, I'm not inclined to legalize them getting access to something that might endanger my life secondhand. Call it selfish, but I actually do like living my life. I wasn't the on saying they are being brainwashed or living in mommy's basement. I don't understand that statement.
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