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The Marxist, Communist, and Socialist Guild

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Formerly called the NCS, this is a place for communists and socialists to talk about communism and socialism. 

Tags: Marxism, Communism, Socialism, Political, Left 

Reply MCS: Marxism, Communism, Socialism
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Director Mann

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:37 am


Lady Merewyn
Ex Vicis
Lady Merewyn
To agree with the above... it's a little too militant for my taste, but again, a new banner might be nice. One that's properly voted on. *glares at Curt*

Bah, Curt should have rule-by-decree in my opinion!
Haha, this isn't a dictatorship. Or is it? ninja

Or maybe I'm puppetting Curt just to re-install myself as Guild Captain...
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:02 am


But yeah soooo any ideas on a new banner or just keep the old?

SoViEtTaNkT34
Crew


Lady Merewyn

PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:01 am


I don't have ideas in general for another week until my finals are done.
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:17 pm


If we want to get *really* crazy, we could go out on gaia to artsy folks and ask them to make us one - the winner would receive 30,000 Gaia gold (financed by me).

34616782446782 b76


Director Mann

PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:00 pm


Put some hammers and stars in there and a lot of people's fist in the air. Maybe add in some Latin if you want. Vox Populi Stuff like that.
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:09 pm


I actually really like that idea.

Lady Merewyn


Intermundia

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:39 pm


Everyone loves pop-art!
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:23 pm


Comrade Robson
Everyone loves pop-art!
I do?

UF6


Director Mann

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:28 pm


Also if we can use this picture, so much the better.

User Image
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:54 am


I like the art contest idea. It'd probably be a good promotional thing too. And I'd be happy to chip in gold or some collector items. Maybe open it up to rank top three winners or something.

Maryhl

Shy Werewolf


34616782446782 b76

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:17 pm


We'll just have to find the right venue - I already mailed some of the art guilds, but nobody has gotten back with me.
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 3:15 pm


I think Gaia has a forum for art contests. Though I have no idea what kind of response it'd get there. One guild I'm in is having a contest that way. Albeit for avatar art.

Maryhl

Shy Werewolf


Le Pere Duchesne
Captain

Beloved Prophet

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:27 am


What is with the anti-militancy? Damn petty-bourgeois pacifists.

What we need is something old school, like Marat, photoshoped to be shown holding the still warm heart of an aristocrat...

Or maybe, sticking with the French Revolution theme I will always prefer. and quiet fitting for the upcomming 'World Youth Day' week: A picture of ********* or his Pere Duchesne with the words "******** the Pope" above...

(on a side note, ********* Pere Duchesne article '******** the pope' has noting about the pope in it whatsoever!)
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:47 pm


You would be one to feature the bloodied remains of the bourgeois... the problem is that if you're going to eliminate social class, you have to eliminate the entire notion of class distinctions. We need to create a society of equals, where it doesn't matter how you were born. Simply killing people only causes more resentment between classes, whereas eliminating the social structure of classes to begin with, and their material causes, seems much more efficient. Change the wage system, and the notion of bourgeois will fizzle out of existence.

Lady Merewyn


Le Pere Duchesne
Captain

Beloved Prophet

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 12:39 am


Quote:
You would be one to feature the bloodied remains of the bourgeois...

I actually wouldn't call for that to actually be made as a promotional poster for the guild. I only suggested it because everyone else is being so stupidly pacifist.

I only said it for that reason, however, if you insist:
Quote:
the problem is that if you're going to eliminate social class, you have to eliminate the entire notion of class distinctions.

No, you don't. You just have to eliminate class. One could do this by just killing the bourgeoisie, but that would do nothing unless the very nature of the economy was changed. And if the economy was collectivised, there would be no need to kill the bourgeoisie: let them live on their money. They will run out eventually.

Quote:
We need to create a society of equals, where it doesn't matter how you were born.

I do not believe I have ever proposed killing the bourgeoisie and their children just for being bourgeois(outside of jokes and mean spirited remarks IRL, but not here). This criticism would be /more/ appropriately directed at tank, not me.
As I always say: when the s**t hits the fan, they will oppose us and in the course of the stuggle we will have to prevent them taking power. This will be done as peacefully as possible in the given situation, whether that is 'peaceful' in the absolute sense is a diferent matter.

Quote:
Simply killing people only causes more resentment between classes,

This does not matter. They will fight us and we will defend ourselves. The insurrection itself, one can expect, would be purely defensive in nature: to stop the workers' councils being liquidated. If they resent us for that, what do we care? One more negative emotion by the bourgeoisie against the proletariat.

Quote:
whereas eliminating the social structure of classes to begin with, and their material causes, seems much more efficient.

It is the only way. But to assume that there will not be civil war is to dream with the anarchists. When we overthrow the bourgeois state we will need our own state to prevent the bourgeoisie from regaining power. Untill the bourgeoisie has been eliminated as a class there can be no talk of equality or freedom.

Quote:
Change the wage system, and the notion of bourgeois will fizzle out of existence.

No, wages have nothing to do with it. The question is the nature of the appropriation of wealth. If wealth is privitely appropriated from the labour of others, no change in the nature of wages will suffice to eliminate the bourgeoisie or capitalism. In the SU in the 30's for example, workers worked 12 hour shifs in conditions no american labourer of the time would consider for bare subsistence wages and yet there was a planned and socialised economy.

A short read on this topic would be Engels' On Authority. It is great in itself and is referenced heaps by Lenin in State and Revolution.
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MCS: Marxism, Communism, Socialism

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