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Fanart Theft
I could care less. >_>
12%
 12%  [ 1 ]
I didn't know it was wrong. o.o;;
12%
 12%  [ 1 ]
I want to support the artists!
50%
 50%  [ 4 ]
I've done it. -.-
25%
 25%  [ 2 ]
Bah! Screw em.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 8


AuroraDragonKaya
Captain

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:48 am


I posted this in the yugioh yaoi guild a while ago... And I feel it'd be an interesting topic to bring up here. So! Here we go...

AuroraDragonKaya
Alright, this is a problem that, as an artist, has been bugging me for a long time.... and its rampant in the yugioh fandom.

Art theft? You might think. I'd never allow that, one artist taking credit for anothers work and not asking for it! Well, that's good....
But that's only one type of art theft.

There's another that most people here blatantly disregard, despite the wishes of the original artists- taking work without permission.

You may have excuses- 'their site is in japanese, I can't read it!' "I don't know where it came from, so its ok!'
It's not ok. Not if you have any respect for the artist who originally created the work.

And a lot of these artists don't WANT their work to be distributed without their permission, english or not. It's not a compliment, it's frustrating! Most images don't even link back and credit the original artist!


I'm not trying to bash anyone, and I know I'm probably gonna get half the people here pissed off at me, but its true.... you really have to consider the wishes of the original artist.

And the following are a list of artists who do not want people using their works without permission



Kukuretai (closed do to the massive art theft)
W-Bind (closed)
Trick3
Elite Yuugiou
Setoen
Dark Minister
Master Kon


This is by no means a complete list, either.

**sighs** Well, I hope I didn't offend anyone, but please, read what these artists have to say, and keep that in mind. They have given you great pleasure with their art, haven't they? It's the least you can do to respect it.

For more info, read what the ARTISTS say here
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:28 am


Neither is really art theft, as theft would indicate that you physically remove some one else's possession from him/her without his/her permission.
The first example would be... What's it called, plagiarism? Ie, copying some one else's work and taking credit for it yourself, which is just wrong and illegal under most copyright laws.

The other.. Well, don't know what to call that. Spreading data without somebody else's direct permission? Depends on the case; if you take something that some one's distributing for free - say on a DA account - that isn't theft as far as I'm concerned. Most of the time - as far as my experience goes - people will usually ask for a source for the pics they find or simply use Google, so the whole credit issue usually gets solved in the end.

If the artist has said that he/she absolutely doesn't want his/her art to be spread though that's another question, although if you don't want something to be spread around you gotta wonder why they put it on the Internet in the first place since it's obvious that in the end it will, but that's another question I guess.

[OMFG NARKI]


apocalypse-song
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:55 pm


I'm an artist too, but I have to slightly disagree with you, ADK and agree with Narki. It isn't really art theft, especially if it isn't legally copyrighted (And I'm almost positive you can not copyright fanart >>; ) Becuase technically with fanart, you're stealing someone elses characters. Any picture I, or you, draw is up for grabs for anyone who wants to take it. Even if you put a little copyright symbol by your pictures, that doesn't mean it's really copyrighted, especially for people like us who put our art out there on a very public site (Y-gallery/DeviantArt). That's why scans of Manga that aren't serialized in the US aren't illegal for US citizens to download, becuase it's not Copyrighted here >_O
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:09 pm


wow, so that's why kukuretai was shut down? that sucks because it was my favorite, but i understand how frustrating art theft can be (which is why i don't normally post my artwork up)

kurai tenshi13


be_my_freind

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:15 pm




I think it's okay if someone puts their artwork up and want to put it on a slide show or show it off, but I shouldn't be right for someone to say - 'I did this' Because all the 'good jobs' go to someone else. If you want people to use your artwork, then post in everywhere you like-
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:36 pm


Actually, yes, you DO own the rights to your own creations, in general (not fanart specific.)
I need to find some of the old sites I used to have links to that went more into copyright law.

I'm surprised you guys don't understand that yes, redistributing art is wrong. You should probably read what the artists say in their own words... maybe then you'll understand. It's very concise and specific.
I'm also surprised that despite what people've written here, everyone who voted says they support the artists... >.>;;

If someone uses their art, they can firstly mawl the artwork by crappy edits and text, and secondly, by distributing it they make their own site less unique.

And no, credit is NOT usually given.
Ask most artists on DA what they think about people redistributing their work without credit or permission, I guarantee you most of your favorite artists will not be too thrilled at the idea.

And it IS a form of theft. -.-;;


((Yeah, that's why kukuretai was shut down. She used to have a message on their saying so for a time soon after it was.))


Edit- On copywrite-
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
http://www.whatiscopyright.org/

Edit2- Also, again, not trying to offend anyone, I'm just passionate when it comes to the rights of artists. ^^;

AuroraDragonKaya
Captain


[OMFG NARKI]

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:36 pm


It's not that I don't "understand" anything; I just strongly disagree with what you're saying. I believe that the spreading of information and digital data on the Internet should be unrestricted (within certain legal barriers of course). As long as no one edits or claims credit for the artwork in question I don't see anything wrong with it. If we'd cut off the free exchange of information in the way you suggest it'd make it extremely difficult for a lot of people to get to enjoy the said artistic masterpieces and would lead to thousands of image boards, Yahoo! groups and similiar services being shut down, and I just don't fancy that thought. Not every one has the time and energy to browse through the artists own personal pages.

As for the credit thing, I was mostly speaking of my own experience and frankly I don't really care what people think about their art that they've uploaded to their DA gallery for free viewing is being re-distrubuted. If it's already free then the re-distribution should be free as well. Am I heartless? Egoistic? Ignorant? Call me whatever you want, I still stand by my beliefs that distrubuting digital data isn't a form of theft.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:10 pm


Persoanlly, I could care less. I put my art out there for people to enjoy. If they want to use it in a banner, or share it with other people then that's fine. As long as people are getting some sort of joy out of what I create, I'm happy.

apocalypse-song
Crew


[OMFG NARKI]

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:15 pm


Rainbow_Revolution
Persoanlly, I could care less. I put my art out there for people to enjoy. If they want to use it in a banner, or share it with other people then that's fine. As long as people are getting some sort of joy out of what I create, I'm happy.


That's the spirit. heart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:15 pm


Narki
It's not that I don't "understand" anything; I just strongly disagree with what you're saying. I believe that the spreading of information and digital data on the Internet should be unrestricted (within certain legal barriers of course). As long as no one edits or claims credit for the artwork in question I don't see anything wrong with it. If we'd cut off the free exchange of information in the way you suggest it'd make it extremely difficult for a lot of people to get to enjoy the said artistic masterpieces and would lead to thousands of image boards, Yahoo! groups and similiar services being shut down, and I just don't fancy that thought. Not every one has the time and energy to browse through the artists own personal pages.

As for the credit thing, I was mostly speaking of my own experience and frankly I don't really care what people think about their art that they've uploaded to their DA gallery for free viewing is being re-distrubuted. If it's already free then the re-distribution should be free as well. Am I heartless? Egoistic? Ignorant? Call me whatever you want, I still stand by my beliefs that distrubuting digital data isn't a form of theft.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not the type to call names because of someone's beliefs. razz (Not intentionally, anyway.)
Even if their beliefs seem ridiculous and frustrating to me. (My aunt's belief that there's no such thing as evolution and that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, for example.)

But the thing is... I have no problem with the artwork spreading, etc. I just think it should be done WITH the artists permission, or, at the very least, a link BACK.
I think the artists deserve that. Most are uncredited, which is wrong. I think the rights of the artists come before the supposed fans who would use their work.

(And fwi, I have had my artwork spread across the internet, mostly my reno and rude chibis. I, personally don't mind. They were done fo a commission and the person who commissioned them even asked very nicely to post them on her lj community, from which they spread further, no one was claiming credit, and I know if they want more, the only place they can get it is from my gallery, in the end.)

Nonetheless, a lot of artists DO care, and I think that if you enjoy their art, you should respect their wishes.
Art theft has driven sites to close so now NO ONE can enjoy them anymore.

AuroraDragonKaya
Captain


Ani Blade
Crew

Dragon

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:51 pm


Rainbow_Revolution
Persoanlly, I could care less. I put my art out there for people to enjoy. If they want to use it in a banner, or share it with other people then that's fine. As long as people are getting some sort of joy out of what I create, I'm happy.

Well that's the whole point of sharing art, but it crosses the line when they start claiming it as theirs. Now, I haven't had my art work stolen (because I don't draw anything decent xD; ), but I have had my fanfictions/stories 'stolen' from www.fanfiction.net and www.fictionpress.com. Although I feel a bit flattered that someone would think my work is good enough to claim as their own, it pissed me off like you wouldn't believe (more so because I was online friends with the person who did it).
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:03 pm


You do make a few valid points there, but I still don't agree with your saying that it's "theft" to share other people's artwork if it's free in the first place.
As far as sites closing and artists taking off all their works off the Internet is concerned, I just can't see the artists logic in the cases I've seen. In these they were going berserk over their art popping up on Yahoo! groups and eventually even left the Internet as a result in their fury, and I just can't really see and point and reason behind such a decision. In these cases it was as simple as that people enjoyed what they had created, so they shared it with their friends by uploading it to Yahoo! groups. No credit was given directly, but the pictures were signed so in the end the artists pages got more hits and fans through it, which is a win-win situation in my book. And still they went mad over it despite the fact that they - as far as I can see - only gained from is.
Guess that's why I lack understanding for artists that take everything off the Internet due to this kind of alledged "theft". In my view they acted wrong and irrationally by attacking their own fans like that, and while I understand that it might not always by as simple as that I've yet to see a case where the artist actually had a valid reason for shutting down due to this kind of "theft" I just can't agree with you on that point. If we're talking about them losing income or having people actually rip off their works I can understand why they get mad; I'd be too if some one did it to my works. But when it comes to simple re-distribution I just can't understand why they'd get mad over it. Sure, they deserve some credit for it no question about that, but I don't think it's 100% necesary in all cases. Basically, my stance on that matter is the same as Kikyana's; as long as people are happy and no one blatantly rips it off, there's no harm and thus is ok by my books.

On an additional note, no need to worry that I'd dislike you just because we don't really agree here. You have your views and I respect 'em, and that's freedom of speech for ya. ^^

[OMFG NARKI]


AuroraDragonKaya
Captain

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:17 pm


((Er, as far as money goes, a lot of people pass around doujinshi scans. That technically takes money away from the artists too...))

Well, when you create something, and your proud of it, you want to show the world, yes... but you also want the world to know you DID it.
It's nice when people come to see it, and when they compliment it even more so.

And people like your art, and its all good and well and happy. But then people start putting that artwork on their sites, their galleries. They don't say its yours. They don't link back. They say 'luk @ my kewl pic collection biggrin '

And people stop coming to your site, stop even knowing that the pictures you made are YOUR pictures.
They're everywhere, in a foreign language. Some people even claim to have made thems. Other's use them to make THEIR sites more attractive.

And YOUR site is no longer unique. YOUR work is everywhere, and no one appreciates it for yours, but just 'more pretty puzzleshipping art' or some such thing.


And don't say that people are fans. They aren't. They're fans of the pairing, not the artist, and this is proven by their actions.



(BTW Narki, for the most part, I don't sign a lot of my work, including my chibis. Those chibis have NOT brought anyone to my gallery. No one says where they got it from. No one says who I am or posts a link.
Your highly overestimating the ability to find things from those people.)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:35 pm


Just speaking for my experiences, mind you. I'll freely admit that I'm no absolute expert on the subject and I've never claimed to be either, and I even said in my post there that I'm aware that it isn't ALWAYS as simple as the cases I've observed.
Regarding the fan part, allow me to explain my point there... In the cases I mentioned where they DID benefit from it in the end, I just think it's wrong that they took all of their works down because of some Yahoo! groups that actually.. Err, generated fans for them, in lack of better wording. I also don't agree with the logic that if you get mad over people suddenly forgetting about you being the original artist the last thing you want to do - logically - should be to fully surrender and fall into forgetfulness; that's just counter-productive as far as I see. Finally, I haven't witnessed a single case where an artist has become forgotten because people share their artworks over the Internet; there'll always be a source avavible and people will always be able to find it in the end until the day it's removed, so in other words that "solution" is the worst one imaginable. And besides, what harm does it do if some one finds your work through an image board rather than your DA account? Chances are that they most likely wouldn't have found it somewhere else, so all that's lost is hypothetical hits that'd also assume that no one will EVER find your piece after seeing it there, which is a pretty ridiculous assumption because I know of artists who've actually managed to build their reputation through this. If you're so concerned about people forgetting that you've made it, simply sign the work and attach a link to your site or an e-mail addy (someplace where it doesn't cover the entire picture).
And for the love of Ghad, stop diliberatly confusing file sharing with blatant rip-off jobs. I still stand by my previous point that file sharing is ok and I have little sympathy for people who oppose it. File sharing is simply the re-distribution of digital media and that doesn't harm any one in any way provided that it's done right. It has NOTHING to do with people taking credit for some one else's work and has nothing to do with the editing of other people's works for that matter. Sure, some people do it but I never said that I supported such practices and I'd appriciate if you'd stop bringing that up. I've already said that I recognice that ripping at people's works is a problem and I've never said that I approved of that sort of thing, so since we fundamentally stand on the same point on that issue I'd like it if we could stop bickering about that.

[OMFG NARKI]


kurai tenshi13

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:42 am


i don't think it's theft unless you take credit for the work that you didn't do or take it without permission if the artist specifically instructed you to get permission first. usually i print out pictures i like so i can put them in my binder for my own enjoyment, they dont go on public display or anything. and i don't think there's anything wrong with that.
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