Welcome to Gaia! ::

Well, it's really widely regarded that Mozart was superior to Beethoven on vocals. Mozart has many amazing Operas, as well as Arias, a Requiem, many other masses.

Opera is probably the main vocal category, and while Mozart is one of the masters of Opera, Beethoven's was always regarded as a bit of a disappointment. He didn't understand the voice in the same way as Mozart. Beethoven understood instruments very well, but not people. As you said, he didn't love them. Mozart enjoyed the voice. And Beethoven was not deaf all his life, and if he composed a "Choral" Symphony when completely deaf, so it really isn't that big of an excuse. Neither is a satisfactory reason that he "didn't talk much". That's irrelevant. Beethoven was an instrumental composer. Mozart was a master of the voice in a way Beethoven could never appreciate. And of course he knew that Opera was doing well. Opera was storming Europe, not in a small part thanks to Mozart...Still, Beethoven never composed a fantastic opera.

Yes, Septomor, that is one piece. Actually, just a fragment of a movement. And it's popular, not a great example of vocal ingenuity. Fragments of the Requiem Mass are everywhere. The Aria of the Queen of the Night is incredibly famous. Many themes from The Marriage of Figaro are used in movies, adverts etc. And I could go on.

Ode to Joy is like the 1812 Overture. It has a catchy tune, it doesn't take immense musical capacities to appreciate and it's powerful. However, neither are great examples of their genre. Calling Ode to Joy a masterpiece of the choral and vocal genre is like saying Chopin's Piano Concertos are great examples of the Concerto genre. Neither is true.

For some reason they keep coming out with comercials with the theme.
There was a car comercial talking about how the composer couldn't hear the music, so he visulized in his head. Then it started playing the first mvnt. I think everyone forgot the awesome scherzo and 3rd mvnt. crying It's just not fair that way.

Ok........

IMO, the twenty greatest should be the twenty most influential, and thus should encompass:

Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Wagner, Mozart
Schoenberg, Debussy, Cage, Verdi, Reich
Leonin and Perotin , Mahler, Monteverdi, Schubert,
Stravinsky, Bartok, Ives, and one other

This being said, I do not like all of the composers I listed, and do recognize that each era isn't represented equally. Reasonings behind this:

Bach - master of counterpoint, influenced music dramatically and set the groundwork for much of what would come

Beethoven - classical genius, whose influence lasted far into the Romantic era and caused, among other things, a great lull in the compositions of symphonies afterwards.

Wagner - the exact same thing that happened with Beethoven happened with Brahms, which lead to Schoenberg later on (having admitted Wagner had exhausted what he had)

Brahms - the first true Romanticist composer to overcome the influence of Beethoven's works.

Mozart - another classical genius, though not with the same impact as Beethoven he deserves a spot.

Schoenberg - "emancipator of dissonance" in Europe- huge chaos ensues

Debussy - if Schoenberg emancipated dissonance, Debussy emancipated consonance and opened doors to tonal music that didn't follow progressions

Cage - redefined silence

Verdi - the very definition of classic Italian opera

Steve Reich - though not an original founding Minimalist, he helped further establish the genre- one of the only masterful composers of the US (another is coming up)

Leonin / Perotin - Glossed upon chants, leading to the evolution of monophonic chant into what we consider music today

Mahler - the very definition of late Romantic, his symphonies for many killed the symphonic form (in that they could never do it to fit his scale) amongst other influences.

Monteverdi - L'Orfeo established the baroque opera, and his works involving madrigals also helped a great deal

Schubert - the lied would be nowhere without him

Stravinsky - Rite of Spring. Beyond that, he contributed / helped create multiple movements and styles in the 20th century (and even influenced jazz)

Bartok - not necessarily for his music but instead for his pioneering the field of ethnomusicology- any world music awareness is partially due to him, on some scale.

Ives - the equivalent to Schoenberg in the US (happening simultaneously), long considered the only composer of value in the US.


I would be tempted to give the final spot to a Romantic composer, but haven't decided. However, I just thought I'd throw out my opinions- it doesn't matter in the end.