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Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 12:36 pm
Just to let you all know, you're leaving the discussion of psychology into a debate on science VS philosophy. If that's your pleasure, create a topic on it, but let's please stay on-topic. ShrinkWrapped Psychology is really a pseudo science or discipline. Science has variables does it not? Psycology is just variables measured against a norm. There is co0nsistency up to the point of individuality. Given a group pf people with similar personality types behaviour can be predicted fairly accuraely. as can interractions between known types. I don't quite grasp what you are getting at, True, it is dealing with mind rather than brain and is therefore subject to many variations, but there are abnormalities in brain regions shown to result in cognitive abnormalities. These are present in all scans of those with certain mental conditions , alcoholism for instance. That's scientific consistency. I do agree that there are problems in defining just what can be classed as a mental illness. I persoanlly think there is absolutely no evidence for ADHD and that it is a mere pill pushing exercise. Chemistry. Certain chemicals have existed in subjects with things like ADHD and Teret's Syndrome, chemicals that are evidence of their existence. Most of a psychologist's evidence comes from analyzed thought-patterns and the chemicals existant in a subject. Psychiatry is less of a science as it's more the study of behaviour and less the study of scientific facts of the human mind. I suppose I'm more of a psychiatrist; more concerned with the behaviour and less concerned about why. That's why I like to watch my peers rather than interact with them. I guess I don't have much in-common with them.
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:10 am
This is a little older thread, but since psychology is my field of study I think I'll bump it up a little.
It really irritates me when I see people refer to psychology as a pseudo-science. I can tolerate it when people call it a "soft science", but the truth is that psychology is merely a young science. You must also consider that psychology is a very broad term that encompasses many different areas. In general terms, psychology is the study of the human mind. The human mind is difficult to study because we are very limited by our ethics. Rather than creating situations to test response, we have to wait for them to occur naturally because creating them ourselves would be harmful and unethical. That makes psychology a difficult thing to study. For example, we are still trying to work out how early childhood trauma such as child abuse effects the brains development. Obviously the easiest way to discover such a thing would be to create an experiment where there was a control group and a group of children who were abused and traumatized while all other variables were controlled. We could quickly answer the question of how abuse and trauma effects the brain that way, but who wants to traumatize and abuse little children? Obviously we just can't do that. Instead we can only study children who have already been abused and then there are dozens of variables that complicate things. There are too any variables in studying humans to be able to make the kind of conclusive discovers that are made in other areas of science.
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 4:18 pm
Aiko_Kaida This is a little older thread, but since psychology is my field of study I think I'll bump it up a little. It really irritates me when I see people refer to psychology as a pseudo-science. I can tolerate it when people call it a "soft science", but the truth is that psychology is merely a young science. You must also consider that psychology is a very broad term that encompasses many different areas. In general terms, psychology is the study of the human mind. The human mind is difficult to study because we are very limited by our ethics. Rather than creating situations to test response, we have to wait for them to occur naturally because creating them ourselves would be harmful and unethical. That makes psychology a difficult thing to study. For example, we are still trying to work out how early childhood trauma such as child abuse effects the brains development. Obviously the easiest way to discover such a thing would be to create an experiment where there was a control group and a group of children who were abused and traumatized while all other variables were controlled. We could quickly answer the question of how abuse and trauma effects the brain that way, but who wants to traumatize and abuse little children? Obviously we just can't do that. Instead we can only study children who have already been abused and then there are dozens of variables that complicate things. There are too any variables in studying humans to be able to make the kind of conclusive discovers that are made in other areas of science. Good GRIEF I love you! Haha! I've been combating the stigma of psychology being a supposed "pseudo" science, even though it is used to determine the extent of brain damage and other neurologicl disorder prevalence, as well as other "real" medical issues. This among a medical community, no less- you're right, it is a VERY young science, and a slow one at that, in comparison to some other fields, for the EXACT reasons you list here. In essence, psychology is the study of how human beings interact with and process their world, including their thoughts, emotions, etc, even memories to a certain extent, however abnormal or normal a person under study may be. Just because we don't have to cut people open in no way makes a psychologist less of a medical professional- you cannot tell me that someone who's not living their life only because of such an abnormal fear of non-existant spiders or something is behaving normally and doesn't need help as so far as their health and wellbeing goes wink .
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 8:02 am
Aiko_Kaida This is a little older thread, but since psychology is my field of study I think I'll bump it up a little. It really irritates me when I see people refer to psychology as a pseudo-science. I can tolerate it when people call it a "soft science", but the truth is that psychology is merely a young science. You must also consider that psychology is a very broad term that encompasses many different areas. In general terms, psychology is the study of the human mind. The human mind is difficult to study because we are very limited by our ethics. Rather than creating situations to test response, we have to wait for them to occur naturally because creating them ourselves would be harmful and unethical. That makes psychology a difficult thing to study. For example, we are still trying to work out how early childhood trauma such as child abuse effects the brains development. Obviously the easiest way to discover such a thing would be to create an experiment where there was a control group and a group of children who were abused and traumatized while all other variables were controlled. We could quickly answer the question of how abuse and trauma effects the brain that way, but who wants to traumatize and abuse little children? Obviously we just can't do that. Instead we can only study children who have already been abused and then there are dozens of variables that complicate things. There are too any variables in studying humans to be able to make the kind of conclusive discovers that are made in other areas of science. Gotta agree with you, psychology is a science not a pseudo science. Most theories have a quantitative basis is hard empirical evidence, rigorous testing to ensure the results are valid and reliable. (Not to mention all the statistical analysis, though "lies damned lies and statistics" can often apply if you have the mind for it ) Even Qualitative psychology has these guides,(different but there) to see that the data is in accordance with things like the grounded theory(its gotta be grounded in evidence). Also I must point out against the measurements of 'norms' other sciences like chemistry, you test an element it will remain the same. It doesn't matter where you get it from hydrogen is always one proton and one neutron. People though, how can anyone ever get a statistical norm? You draw you sample from how many and who ever you can get in your target population. You can't test the entire human race to get a bell curve and find the norm. All you can do is draw evidence where you can; and expect everyone to try and prove you wrong. Psychology has the strength as a science, that you know and realize that what you study is dynamic. Yes you can never say we have absolute proof, only support (personally I think that’s a good thing). This also means that it can't stagnate, therefore everyone theorist has the incentive to make the theory or hypothesis as water tight as possible before it gets ripped apart by the rest of the psychological community.
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:13 pm
tatterkin Aiko_Kaida This is a little older thread, but since psychology is my field of study I think I'll bump it up a little. It really irritates me when I see people refer to psychology as a pseudo-science. I can tolerate it when people call it a "soft science", but the truth is that psychology is merely a young science. You must also consider that psychology is a very broad term that encompasses many different areas. In general terms, psychology is the study of the human mind. The human mind is difficult to study because we are very limited by our ethics. Rather than creating situations to test response, we have to wait for them to occur naturally because creating them ourselves would be harmful and unethical. That makes psychology a difficult thing to study. For example, we are still trying to work out how early childhood trauma such as child abuse effects the brains development. Obviously the easiest way to discover such a thing would be to create an experiment where there was a control group and a group of children who were abused and traumatized while all other variables were controlled. We could quickly answer the question of how abuse and trauma effects the brain that way, but who wants to traumatize and abuse little children? Obviously we just can't do that. Instead we can only study children who have already been abused and then there are dozens of variables that complicate things. There are too any variables in studying humans to be able to make the kind of conclusive discovers that are made in other areas of science. Gotta agree with you, psychology is a science not a pseudo science. Most theories have a quantitative basis is hard empirical evidence, rigorous testing to ensure the results are valid and reliable. (Not to mention all the statistical analysis, though "lies damned lies and statistics" can often apply if you have the mind for it ) Even Qualitative psychology has these guides,(different but there) to see that the data is in accordance with things like the grounded theory(its gotta be grounded in evidence). Also I must point out against the measurements of 'norms' other sciences like chemistry, you test an element it will remain the same. It doesn't matter where you get it from hydrogen is always one proton and one neutron. People though, how can anyone ever get a statistical norm? You draw you sample from how many and who ever you can get in your target population. You can't test the entire human race to get a bell curve and find the norm. All you can do is draw evidence where you can; and expect everyone to try and prove you wrong. Psychology has the strength as a science, that you know and realize that what you study is dynamic. Yes you can never say we have absolute proof, only support (personally I think that’s a good thing). This also means that it can't stagnate, therefore everyone theorist has the incentive to make the theory or hypothesis as water tight as possible before it gets ripped apart by the rest of the psychological community. Dude, that was so deep (you used the word "quantitive") Anyways, I think psychology is interesting because it is based on using data and information to assess people's actions and make predictions on their future actions, thoughts, etc. However, I also much prefer basing my ideas more on inter-related traits rather than physical evidence. Is that still psychology, or a different study of human behavior?
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 3:12 am
However, I also much prefer basing my ideas more on inter-related traits rather than physical evidence. Is that still psychology, or a different study of human behavior?
Yes. There’s many different branches of psychology( and sociology too) each takes different methodologies and idea's(hell there's even an aura machine where I study , though don't ask me how it works I haven't a clue). Correlations, case studies, lab studies, interviews there's loads of different ways to study a phenomenon each has its own weaknesses and strengths.
Doesn't have always to be ‘solid’ physical evidence, it just depends on what you actually want to study and what kind of evidence is best.
Physical evidence is sometimes overrated, because you may draw the wrong conclusion by interpreting the data. That and it's very easy to move the numbers around make statistics jump through hoops to show what you actually want (though this may not be good science but it happens) For some stuff like the lived experience there's not way you can force a measurement scale.
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 9:01 am
tatterkin Yes. There’s many different branches of psychology( and sociology too) each takes different methodologies and idea's(hell there's even an aura machine where I study , though don't ask me how it works I haven't a clue). Correlations, case studies, lab studies, interviews there's loads of different ways to study a phenomenon each has its own weaknesses and strengths. Doesn't have always to be ‘solid’ physical evidence, it just depends on what you actually want to study and what kind of evidence is best. Physical evidence is sometimes overrated, because you may draw the wrong conclusion by interpreting the data. That and it's very easy to move the numbers around make statistics jump through hoops to show what you actually want (though this may not be good science but it happens) For some stuff like the lived experience there's not way you can force a measurement scale. I know, but I always thought that was more like psychiatry, based more on how they act and looking for connections.
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