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 Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:40 pm
Vanadia Gold Ffaux Pas fallenseeker Ffaux Pas I don't think it has anything to do with sanity. No one's crazy to ask for monogamy. It's not asking him to deny that side of him anymore than asking a guy not to date other girls is denying him the right to appreciate females.
I'm sure he's grateful. That's thoughtful of you, but it doesn't make a woman any less sane to ask her man to be with only her, whether it's guys or girls that are in question. Uhh...yeah it is. If I was in the mood for a guy, 20 women would still not be what I wanted. You have to realize that for bisexuals, there are almost two independent sex drives, one for each sex. There is a difference between being horny for a guy and horny for a girl. And by forcing monogamy, and by extension heterogamy, you are creating a great deal of tension in that person. Now, I've learned to deal with that by way of heavy use of homosexual pornography, as a counter balance to my completely heterosexual experiences at the moment, but not every guy can do that. Right now, I wouldn't even think to go near another girl, but I've had to stop myself numerous time from pursuing guys. Now, I don't expect you to be able to fully grasp what I'm talking about, since you don't and won't experience it, but, you're hearing it straight from the horses mouth. Still, I love my girl enough that I can deal with a bit of repression, at least for the moment, and hope that someday she becomes a little more enlightened as to my situation.
I will say, however, that the part about my experiences and what I will or will not grasp is not something you can know. You don't know me nearly well enough to say what you have. But I don't know you well enough to want to correct you.It's not a matter of enforcing heterogamy. It's a matter of wanting to be needed above everyone else. I'm completely bi-sexual but I would never seek out a girlfriend because my guy doesn't want to play second fiddle to anyone. And I respect that because I love him completely. Yeah, but you made that choice for yourself, it wasn't forced upon you, was it?
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:04 pm
Ffaux Pas There are plenty of straight guys out there who aren't satisfied with just the girl they have, and can't be contented with just one partner. But that is a different kind of satisfaction. Sexuality is part of how you evaluate a relationship, and if it isn't satisfying, and you can't look past that because of other things, you move on. But, it wouldn't be fair to expect my girl to provide me satisfaction of a desire that she is 100% incapable of fulfilling. Quote: There are people who have certain fetishes that really do it for them, and nothing else is going to quell said desires. It's not just a matter of being bisexual and wanting a guy. This I am a little bit more sympathetic towards, but it is still not an apples-to apples comparison. If "nothing else is going to quell said desires," then they aren't going to be satisfied with the sexuality in the relationship, and at that point, my argument becomes the same as above. The majority of fetishes can be fulfilled by either sex, and those that can't are going to occur in the sex that the person is generally attracted to anyway (assuming hetero for simplicity's sake.) Quote: Sometimes I just want a different girl. It's not something I NEED and it's not something that makes the girl less sane for not wanting to happen. We all deal with tension, and if being horny for someone you can't have is the worst stress you deal with, count yourself lucky. Sometimes I want a different girl too, but, again, that is a different thing, because your normal partner is, at least at the most basic level, capable of fulfilling you. And, fwi, I do deal with more stressful things, plenty of them, this just happens to be the thing that we got started talking. I don't appreciate that shot, let's try to keep this civil, friendly, and educational. Quote: Everyone wants to be needed. It's perfectly fine to be poly, if that's your thing, but not everyone is. Not everyone Can be. So expecting your girl to become 'enlightened' and suddenly not mind sharing you, simply because you want teh sexorz with someone else, is self-centered. Most people don't work like that. Whether you sleep around with men, rather than other women, it's still going to be considered disloyal by most people. You can't expect anyone to be alright with being cheated on or used, unless it's part of the prior arrangement. It works for some people. Find one of them. Don't expect your girl to change, to go against human nature, just so that you can get your mansex occasionally. Some people deny their sexdrives altogether. Surely you can cope with just getting the girl. Expecting ≠ Hoping. I said "I hope" someday she realizes, not "I'm gonna kick her to the curb if she doesn't shape up." I care more about her then I do about my "sexorz," or else I would be whoring around with both sexes. I love the girl, and that's enough that I can keep that part of me under control for her, but is it so wrong to just hope that someday I won't have to? And Pat, I'll say that maybe I don't know you that well, but you have repeatedly insinuated your heterosexuality to me and the others. And, maybe I'm wrong, but I do still consider bisexuality a different situation then fetishism and polyamory in general. So, if you have just been misleading me as to your sexuality, then I apologize for what you seemed to interpret as an attack.
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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:47 am
Well, I'm not bi-sexual, so I won't even assume I know anything about it or about anything that goes with it. I only have one desire, for men. It's always been that way and I doubt it'll ever change. I'm sure bi-sexual people have desires for both men and women, and like anyone else, they can control those desires, if they want to. Controlling it shouldn't be forced upon them, though.
I was talking with my boyfriend last night and asked him that if I asked him to stop seeing his boyfriend, how would he feel. He said, he'd expect it, that I'd ask one day, and that he wouldn't feel bad about leaving his boyfriend because he feels I, and the relationship, are more important than a desire he could control if he really wanted to.
I have no idea why I added any of this. I just felt left out of the conversation, but I guess it was just something I wanted to share. 3nodding
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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:35 pm
I'm definitely not saying that I can't control it, or that I won't. Just that I shouldn't be EXPECTED to.
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Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:44 pm
fallenseeker But that is a different kind of satisfaction. Sexuality is part of how you evaluate a relationship, and if it isn't satisfying, and you can't look past that because of other things, you move on. But, it wouldn't be fair to expect my girl to provide me satisfaction of a desire that she is 100% incapable of fulfilling. No, you can't expect her to do something she's not capable of, but you are capable of controlling those other urges, so why shouldn't she expect that of you? Is she not entitled to monogamy? Quote: Sometimes I want a different girl too, but, again, that is a different thing, because your normal partner is, at least at the most basic level, capable of fulfilling you. And, fwi, I do deal with more stressful things, plenty of them, this just happens to be the thing that we got started talking. I don't appreciate that shot, let's try to keep this civil, friendly, and educational. This was nothing but civil and friendly. Stop taking things as an attack. I was speaking generally. If that's all you have to worry about, you have life easy. Sexual frustration isn't nearly as bad as somethings you could be going through. And it makes what you want, if you do get it, that much better. Quote: Expecting ≠ Hoping. I said "I hope" someday she realizes, not "I'm gonna kick her to the curb if she doesn't shape up." I care more about her then I do about my "sexorz," or else I would be whoring around with both sexes. I love the girl, and that's enough that I can keep that part of me under control for her, but is it so wrong to just hope that someday I won't have to? Yes. In my opinion, it is. You can say, it'd be nice, or totally awesome if she randomly decided to let me sleep around with guys, but to actively hope that her sense of morality and desire to be wanted will change seems kind of selfish. It's not a matter or realizing. There's nothing to realize except that your boyfriend isn't 100% satisfied with you and would rather sleep with men as well. That might actually be hurtful to most women, not to be enough. Sure, it's not something they can help, but to hope that the realize that it's ok for you to sleep around is really kind of tacky, IMO. If you arrange it from the beginning, if you know the girl's open to it, cool, go for it. But if she's the looking for monogamy and loyalty type, it seems a little underhanded to hope she changes completely just to give you something you don't NEED. Why don't you change for HER? She can hope that you suddenly no longer are attracted to anyone but her, but that's no more likely and obviously a little absurd. So how can you hope that her entire nature will change just so that you can effectively sleep around? Quote: And Pat, I'll say that maybe I don't know you that well, but you have repeatedly insinuated your heterosexuality to me and the others. And, maybe I'm wrong, but I do still consider bisexuality a different situation then fetishism and polyamory in general. So, if you have just been misleading me as to your sexuality, then I apologize for what you seemed to interpret as an attack. I have insinuated as much, yes, because my personal life is still personal, but I have probably done/experienced a heck of a lot more than you might suspect. Bisexuality is very different, I understand that well, but it doesn't make you exempt from the rules of courtesy or human nature. It's about compromise from all sides, not saying 'I'm bisexual, thus I'm different, so it's ok for me to want more than one person, I shouldn't be expected to control myself, and I should want my girl to be ok with the fact that I want more. You can control yourself. We all have to do it. I suggest you get used to it. If only for her sake. And no, I never felt attacked, I just didn't have time to reply at length.
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Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 6:02 pm
While I think no one should expect anything from anyone, most likely your girlfriend, and probably any other girl/boy you will ever be with, is going to expect you to keep your desires under control. It just goes along with monogamous relationships. 3nodding
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Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:07 am
Ffaux Pas Yes. In my opinion, it is. You can say, it'd be nice, or totally awesome if she randomly decided to let me sleep around with guys, but to actively hope that her sense of morality and desire to be wanted will change seems kind of selfish. It's not a matter or realizing. There's nothing to realize except that your boyfriend isn't 100% satisfied with you and would rather sleep with men as well. That might actually be hurtful to most women, not to be enough. Sure, it's not something they can help, but to hope that the realize that it's ok for you to sleep around is really kind of tacky, IMO. If you arrange it from the beginning, if you know the girl's open to it, cool, go for it. But if she's the looking for monogamy and loyalty type, it seems a little underhanded to hope she changes completely just to give you something you don't NEED. Why don't you change for HER? She can hope that you suddenly no longer are attracted to anyone but her, but that's no more likely and obviously a little absurd. So how can you hope that her entire nature will change just so that you can effectively sleep around? I HAVE changed for her, without anything to gain but her love. I've been suppressing those desires and dealing with them in every way I can think of that doesn't involve cheating on her, so don't tell me I need to change. But change has top go both ways, that's the way a good relationship works, and I find it a little worrisome that I have changed and she hasn't. But, like I said, she is important enough to me that I'm willing to go along with that. Ffaux PAs I have insinuated as much, yes, because my personal life is still personal, but I have probably done/experienced a heck of a lot more than you might suspect. Bisexuality is very different, I understand that well, but it doesn't make you exempt from the rules of courtesy or human nature. It's about compromise from all sides, not saying 'I'm bisexual, thus I'm different, so it's ok for me to want more than one person, I shouldn't be expected to control myself, and I should want my girl to be ok with the fact that I want more. You can control yourself. We all have to do it. I suggest you get used to it. If only for her sake. I have to agree with Morte. Nobody should expect anything of me, when I expect nothing of them. And I don't expect anything of her. But, I can deal with that fact because she means alot to me. What I was originally trying to point out was that it was very enlightened of Morte to allow her boyfriend to have a boyfriend. I understand that this is a rare case, and that I shouldn't expect it to happen to me, and I don't; but I do think that her boyfriend's case is the ideal one, which maybe should be the norm for bisexuals. However, I realize that this is about as unlikely as my girlfriend getting me to only be attracted to her.
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Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:55 pm
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:45 am
Yeah, mostly at least. Like I said, you seem to have a pretty good understanding of the situation and a good approach to it.
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:07 pm
It's just amazing. eek
Even though I'm usually right about things, no one ever agrees with anything I say. It's a shocking situation.
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:51 pm
Hmm...well, I'm a bit shocked to agree with anyone...my opinions tend to be...uncommon, at least.
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:20 pm
People think my opinions are weird ... or sarcastic.
I agree.
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