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 Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:12 pm
Lazarus The Resurected i have been able to utilize this look to walk right in amongst the sinful wihtout beign seen.
I'm in no way saying that you don't try too witness or that your anything less.
All I ever see right now is:
I totally agree because as long as we have God in our hearts and believe in him he doesn't care what we look like.
Are we not suppose to be Christlike? Aren't our calling for the world is too save or at least tell people about Christ?
My point here is: God doesn't judge and I accept that. But too those who do see us, do you honestly think that they're gonna go up to you and say 'Hi there! I would like to be saved!' anytime soon? Do you honestly think we are reaching people closer to God with how we look? The way we dress effects nonechristians around us no matter if you accept the fact or deny it.
And seriously the whole, 'So what!? They have to deal with it!' isn't really a true reply or a great comeback whatsoever. I'm not saying to throw down our gothic clothes or to change the fact of who we are but this isn't about us! Clothes and outer appearances effect nonechristians, like you wouldn't believe.
Heck if you were a normal person who wore normal clothes I'll bet you still wouldn't get anyone to God,
Why?
How do you act? How do you portray God? How would you put your feet in a sinner's shoes and realistically take a look at yourself?
Seriously, we don't have too live two lives. Just think about it, do the things we like or wear draw others closer to God or do they even hint that we have a passion for Christ?
I'm not trying to be mean or harsh but realistic. All I'm saying is, THINK ABOUT IT. This isn't a rant on stereo typical goth descriptions or anything like that, I am niether saying YES or NO if being a Christian goth is bad or good, I am simply stating my opinion.
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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:56 pm
Glass Moon Roses Lazarus The Resurected i have been able to utilize this look to walk right in amongst the sinful wihtout beign seen.
I'm in no way saying that you don't try too witness or that your anything less.
All I ever see right now is:
I totally agree because as long as we have God in our hearts and believe in him he doesn't care what we look like.
Are we not suppose to be Christlike? Aren't our calling for the world is too save or at least tell people about Christ?
My point here is: God doesn't judge and I accept that. But too those who do see us, do you honestly think that they're gonna go up to you and say 'Hi there! I would like to be saved!' anytime soon? Do you honestly think we are reaching people closer to God with how we look? The way we dress effects nonechristians around us no matter if you accept the fact or deny it.
And seriously the whole, 'So what!? They have to deal with it!' isn't really a true reply or a great comeback whatsoever. I'm not saying to throw down our gothic clothes or to change the fact of who we are but this isn't about us! Clothes and outer appearances effect nonechristians, like you wouldn't believe.
Heck if you were a normal person who wore normal clothes I'll bet you still wouldn't get anyone to God,
Why?
How do you act? How do you portray God? How would you put your feet in a sinner's shoes and realistically take a look at yourself?
Seriously, we don't have too live two lives. Just think about it, do the things we like or wear draw others closer to God or do they even hint that we have a passion for Christ?
I'm not trying to be mean or harsh but realistic. All I'm saying is, THINK ABOUT IT. This isn't a rant on stereo typical goth descriptions or anything like that, I am niether saying YES or NO if being a Christian goth is bad or good, I am simply stating my opinion.well actually i've joined the sinners. i think Billy Joel said it best. "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry witht the saints; the sinners are much more fun; only the good die young." think about it this way. walking amongst the sinners and hanging with them and attending the same social functions indears them to me. makes them want to listen to what i have to say. and no it wasn't them that got me out of the church it was christians, i got fed up with people constantly trying to exorcise me adn change my clothes and spewing the sme dogma all the time. i used to hear the "word of God" and be moved now it makes me a little ill.
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:40 pm
Lazarus The Resurected "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry witht the saints; the sinners are much more fun; only the good die young." Milton said it better, or at least faster. "Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven"...
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:40 pm
Lazarus The Resurected well actually i've joined the sinners. i think Billy Joel said it best. "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry witht the saints; the sinners are much more fun; only the good die young." think about it this way. walking amongst the sinners and hanging with them and attending the same social functions indears them to me. makes them want to listen to what i have to say. and no it wasn't them that got me out of the church it was christians, i got fed up with people constantly trying to exorcise me adn change my clothes and spewing the sme dogma all the time. i used to hear the "word of God" and be moved now it makes me a little ill. Christians. Another example of how another's stupidity labels us as prejudice holy beings, referring to those 'Christians'. Just because some bad people who call themselves Christians who numerous amounts of times judged you and said all sorts of things about you doesn't give you an excuse to say that's why you're hanging with the sinners and saying that they'll listen to what you have to say. No offense but did you give up your strength so easily because people smack talked you and you couldn't take it anymore? Was it because you lost your fighting ability to stand for yourself and present yourself as a Child of God? I've been though the same situation. Trust me, you ain't the only one. I gave up hope and lost my strength too because 'Christians' judged me and gave me the same speech. I disliked them but I didn't run. I'm trying to say here, are you really cold to real Christians now because of what a few bad apples did to you? You can't say all of those who say are Christians will give you a Holy speech. Do you honestly think Billy Joel is speaking for everyone or just himself? What I'm getting here from his quote is: Do what you want! It's all good!! You'll be family with sinners! Do you honestly think that Hell is going to be a joy ride? A party? Hanging with sinners only shows them and gives them a reason to hate Christians, not only that but it's not that they're going to listen to you, you are going to listen to them. And I'm not trying to prove anything or me snarky, not even an intention to make you hate me.
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:27 pm
Glass Moon Roses Lazarus The Resurected well actually i've joined the sinners. i think Billy Joel said it best. "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry witht the saints; the sinners are much more fun; only the good die young." think about it this way. walking amongst the sinners and hanging with them and attending the same social functions indears them to me. makes them want to listen to what i have to say. and no it wasn't them that got me out of the church it was christians, i got fed up with people constantly trying to exorcise me adn change my clothes and spewing the sme dogma all the time. i used to hear the "word of God" and be moved now it makes me a little ill. Christians. Another example of how another's stupidity labels us as prejudice holy beings, referring to those 'Christians'. Just because some bad people who call themselves Christians who numerous amounts of times judged you and said all sorts of things about you doesn't give you an excuse to say that's why you're hanging with the sinners and saying that they'll listen to what you have to say. No offense but did you give up your strength so easily because people smack talked you and you couldn't take it anymore? Was it because you lost your fighting ability to stand for yourself and present yourself as a Child of God? I've been though the same situation. Trust me, you ain't the only one. I gave up hope and lost my strength too because 'Christians' judged me and gave me the same speech. I disliked them but I didn't run. I'm trying to say here, are you really cold to real Christians now because of what a few bad apples did to you? You can't say all of those who say are Christians will give you a Holy speech. Do you honestly think Billy Joel is speaking for everyone or just himself? What I'm getting here from his quote is: Do what you want! It's all good!! You'll be family with sinners! Do you honestly think that Hell is going to be a joy ride? A party? Hanging with sinners only shows them and gives them a reason to hate Christians, not only that but it's not that they're going to listen to you, you are going to listen to them. And I'm not trying to prove anything or me snarky, not even an intention to make you hate me. 1. the first point was that a goth can walk into a metal show and not get his a** kicked then can talk after teh show or between bands with others at the show. this gives a better imediate conversation statrers than "have you heard the good news?" they actually like me and respected my opinions and i brought a few of them into the chruch before i left 2. NO i never gave up my strength. I stopped represnting myself as a "Child Of God" when i stopped liking what i saw of said children 3. I didn't run i turned my back and walked. There is a huge differance 4. I have never been cold towards any chrisitans. otherwise i wouldn't still be here. on the other hand you and every on else who found out i've "fallen" seem s to think it was one or two "bad" people masquerading as christians who turned me. it was pretty much every one i have observed in the last few years i've been involved with the church so how many people can be "bad"? 5. please refer back to the quote. I'd rathyer be family with sinners, they never judge and never try to correct my thinking into any particular ideal. 6. I don't believe hell exists or in the concvept of "sin" so no hell is not going to be a party 7. I don't much listen to any one. and besides they definitely paid attention to and listened to the things i say.
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:30 pm
Galad Damodred Lazarus The Resurected "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry witht the saints; the sinners are much more fun; only the good die young." Milton said it better, or at least faster. "Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven"... quicker. btu i think joel illustrated the point of company rather than sub serviance.
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:38 am
Lazarus The Resurected 1. the first point was that a goth can walk into a metal show and not get his a** kicked then can talk after teh show or between bands with others at the show. this gives a better imediate conversation statrers than "have you heard the good news?" they actually like me and respected my opinions and i brought a few of them into the chruch before i left 2. NO i never gave up my strength. I stopped represnting myself as a "Child Of God" when i stopped liking what i saw of said children 3. I didn't run i turned my back and walked. There is a huge differance 4. I have never been cold towards any chrisitans. otherwise i wouldn't still be here. on the other hand you and every on else who found out i've "fallen" seem s to think it was one or two "bad" people masquerading as christians who turned me. it was pretty much every one i have observed in the last few years i've been involved with the church so how many people can be "bad"? 5. please refer back to the quote. I'd rathyer be family with sinners, they never judge and never try to correct my thinking into any particular ideal. 6. I don't believe hell exists or in the concvept of "sin" so no hell is not going to be a party 7. I don't much listen to any one. and besides they definitely paid attention to and listened to the things i say. Well, I see. I'm not going to go on about this kind of thing with you, it'd only fuel your reason for turning your back on God. That is who you turned your back on. Not people who say they are Christians. There's no victor here with this conversation. We have different aspects of how we see things and saying there is no HELL is pretty much saying there is no God. How can you believe in God when you tell me that you can't believe in Hell and that Sin is nothing? There is no reason why we should even continue this topic.
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:40 pm
Glass Moon Roses Lazarus The Resurected 1. the first point was that a goth can walk into a metal show and not get his a** kicked then can talk after teh show or between bands with others at the show. this gives a better imediate conversation statrers than "have you heard the good news?" they actually like me and respected my opinions and i brought a few of them into the chruch before i left 2. NO i never gave up my strength. I stopped represnting myself as a "Child Of God" when i stopped liking what i saw of said children 3. I didn't run i turned my back and walked. There is a huge differance 4. I have never been cold towards any chrisitans. otherwise i wouldn't still be here. on the other hand you and every on else who found out i've "fallen" seem s to think it was one or two "bad" people masquerading as christians who turned me. it was pretty much every one i have observed in the last few years i've been involved with the church so how many people can be "bad"? 5. please refer back to the quote. I'd rathyer be family with sinners, they never judge and never try to correct my thinking into any particular ideal. 6. I don't believe hell exists or in the concvept of "sin" so no hell is not going to be a party 7. I don't much listen to any one. and besides they definitely paid attention to and listened to the things i say. Well, I see. I'm not going to go on about this kind of thing with you, it'd only fuel your reason for turning your back on God. That is who you turned your back on. Not people who say they are Christians. There's no victor here with this conversation. We have different aspects of how we see things and saying there is no HELL is pretty much saying there is no God. How can you believe in God when you tell me that you can't believe in Hell and that Sin is nothing? There is no reason why we should even continue this topic. well actually there is plenty of reason to continue this topic and you realy can't push me any farther from your God because i'm gone and not looking back. nor am i coming back so don't worry about that. and i can say that there is no hell and that sin is irrelevant because (and i thought this would have been obvious) i don't believe in your God. Ave Satanas.
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Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:31 pm
Lazarus The Resurected well actually there is plenty of reason to continue this topic and you realy can't push me any farther from your God because i'm gone and not looking back. nor am i coming back so don't worry about that. and i can say that there is no hell and that sin is irrelevant because (and i thought this would have been obvious) i don't believe in your God. Ave Satanas. Soo then please help me understand that the God I believe in is the same God you write on ur Vfreaks profile as the one you love. Appartly you show yourself as a liar or a hypocrite. You can't tell me that the God you believe in is not the same God I believe in, unless you are worshiping a false idol. Honestly, I would really like to continue entering my personal opinions on the topic but it seems that you're trying your best to prove me wrong with everything and laugh at my attempt to bring some understanding to this thread.
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Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:41 pm
Glass Moon Roses Lazarus The Resurected well actually there is plenty of reason to continue this topic and you realy can't push me any farther from your God because i'm gone and not looking back. nor am i coming back so don't worry about that. and i can say that there is no hell and that sin is irrelevant because (and i thought this would have been obvious) i don't believe in your God. Ave Satanas. Soo then please help me understand that the God I believe in is the same God you write on ur Vfreaks profile as the one you love. Appartly you show yourself as a liar or a hypocrite. You can't tell me that the God you believe in is not the same God I believe in, unless you are worshiping a false idol. Honestly, I would really like to continue entering my personal opinions on the topic but it seems that you're trying your best to prove me wrong with everything and laugh at my attempt to bring some understanding to this thread. sorry about the deseption, haven't updatesd the profile on VF in over a year so the Satanist me has yet to comeo ut othere. but as you can see i was once a hard-core jesus freak. I'm sorry you feel that way about my posts. really it has to do with the fact that when this thread started i was a christian and have since left the church. from here on out and i guess from about this page onwards please disregard all of my former posting, however the original point i made still stands, one can in fact be a christian and a goth. the two do not have to conflict.
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Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:43 am
Lazarus The Resurected sorry about the deseption, haven't updatesd the profile on VF in over a year so the Satanist me has yet to comeo ut othere. but as you can see i was once a hard-core jesus freak. I'm sorry you feel that way about my posts. really it has to do with the fact that when this thread started i was a christian and have since left the church. from here on out and i guess from about this page onwards please disregard all of my former posting, however the original point i made still stands, one can in fact be a christian and a goth. the two do not have to conflict. And my reply to such a thing stands as always, I have nothing against that but would it draw someone closer to the Lord.
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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:20 pm
Laz is being ironic.
[Obi Wan said]You've become the very thing you've sworn to destroy
By that I mean your biggest thing was rolling up your slleve showing your cross to all who stereotyped as a Satanist.
But you wussed out on God. I'm not gonna convert you back, or try. But I'm shocked as this is not the Laz I came to know. So christians critized you and you wussed out cause it was to hard. (that's what came to understand) Hopefully God will open your eyes back.
God bless.
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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:48 pm
The_Mortician Laz is being ironic. Obi Wan You've become the very thing you've sworn to destroy By that I mean your biggest thing was rolling up your slleve showing your cross to all who stereotyped as a Satanist. But you wussed out on God. I'm not gonna convert you back, or try. But I'm shocked as this is not the Laz I came to know. So christians critized you and you wussed out cause it was to hard. (that's what came to understand) Hopefully God will open your eyes back. God bless. Call me a wus again morty and i'll show you why my friends refer to me as human nitroglycerin. I never wussed out on Christ. christians wussed out on me. when you are homeless and you sit on a chrch step with a sign reading simply "WWJD" and don't so much as make a cent. freaking hipocites besides, how many debate threads have you read that i've been in? all of them involed the satainc ideals even when i was claiming christianity. i believed in satanism long before i read the writings of Anton La Vey as i was reading i realized i agreed, disenfranchized with religion and in agreement with the ideals of satainsm i made the logical move and thougth it would be dishonest to continue presnting myself as a christian. we came from opposite sides in the christian goth spectram brother. you were christain before goth. it gives the ability to bend christian ideology right around gothic mindset and dark beauty. i was goth before christian, because of my generally strong individualist streak i always had trouble making christianity fit My ideas and since i'll never give up on the ideas i hold true i had to give up on christianity instead.
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:19 am
Hey there
I don't have much to say on the notion of being Christian and of the clique or stereotype of Goth...
But i do support the earlier statement that "if we have God in our hearts He doesn't care how we look"
I see it as the He knows me, all my thoughts, everything in my head- He made me, me- For a reason.
Then again how is one to define Goth these days? I have a knee length black coat, I wore it out with my mates and I got the word "Goth" screamed at me. So there in lies one question.
As long as they don't umbrella me in anyway, I will respect them in the same fashion. I have nothing against those who choose to follow that trend- I could even go so far as to say I know some that make it look incredibly classy.
But that's it from me
God Bless
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Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:33 pm
I thought that even the Mortician might understand. I'm not gonna say anything except that I pity you, and not in an insulting way. I didn't really expect this from you, but it's your choice and I'm not gonna do anything about it.
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