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 Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:44 pm
Which mental power was psi again? I was thinking the one with all of the invisible shapes that you can see glare bounce off of every once in awhile but if that's right your sandwhich request demand doesn't make much sense.
Maybe psi is the one that's like using the force to let people know that these aren't the droids they are looking for except all shout-y?
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:23 am
Shokushu Which mental power was psi again? I was thinking the one with all of the invisible shapes that you can see glare bounce off of every once in awhile but if that's right your sandwhich request demand doesn't make much sense. Maybe psi is the one that's like using the force to let people know that these aren't the droids they are looking for except all shout-y? well, i could always use plan B. Someone make me a sandwich or I'll dig out your eyes with an icecream scoop and serve them as "eye-flavor gross out icecream" to either your youngest relative, or your oldest and/or most senile.
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Thaddeus rolled 2 6-sided dice:
2, 1
Total: 3 (2-12)
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:54 am
Shokushu That's just the mind control talking. To think that willpower alone can distinguish between reality and an equally realistic set of experiences is madness- but then again madness is actually quite accurate about which set of experiences it decides are correct so acting against which one seems right would have a high rate of successfully finding reality. And your description of alterring someone's mind doesn't fit very well with willpower negating mind control either, as you would have to either make use of your willpower in response to the mind control (though if they have alterred your mind it would be a simple task to either lessen your willpower or make you unaware that you have been affected by mind control,) or you would have to constantly put forth the effort to repell outside forces, and while that may be possible for you all of us humans don't have that kind of stamina- we'd have to stop doing anything else if we devoted that much effort to keeping things from influencing us. But besides all of that pretty much all of everyone-around-here's experience with mind control shows that it is essentially just a fresh layer of paint over what was there before, having little to no effect on personality and only really having any affect when trying to recall this or that event. And lastly, I'm aparently always wrong anyway so what does it matter? You're right about that last part. 1) Willpower is the save against mind control. Ask anyone. 2) Your second argument makes no sense. But that may be because you didn't understand the first point. Or because it is a paragraph-long sentence. Be more direct in your speech. 3) A fresh layer of paint? Phil was talking about erasing minds. That's not a layer of paint, that's a goddamn forest fire! The perception altering that he also mentioned, I have less of a problem with. It's creating a temportary blind spot, not wrenching a person's body out of their own control. But who the hell says a 'fresh layer of paint' isn't such a bad thing? Being made to do things against your will, having no control over your own body: these are bad things. Even when they're only temporary. ninja
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:13 am
what if their will is evil, and they are being made to do good?
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:34 am
What the?
Did our resident just vs. unjust morality expert just compare something with good and evil?
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Thaddeus rolled 2 6-sided dice:
5, 6
Total: 11 (2-12)
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:15 am
Jon-OH what if their will is evil, and they are being made to do good? It's not for us to decide. Besides, they wouldn't be doing good. They'd just be a tool that was being used. Our job is to kill things that are in the way of our mission. It's simple enough on its own; I'd rather not complicate it. And I have a severely overriding hatred of mind-control. ninja
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:39 am
I would like to state for the record that when I said "Erase SG minds" I meant "Erasing the few seconds of optical memory of key SG members who might have seen me do something revealing my status as a MSU agent and replacing it with a very similar memory simply not involving me." If that makes you feel better, Thad.
Did you have some sort of mind erasing trauma as a kid?
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:20 pm
-sic o_0 now you're just messing with my head, or Phil overwrote some memory of mine poorly... 1) Yes but willpower isn't a passive thing, you have to choose to make use of it. 2) Maybe I don't wanna *raspberries* And I only really should have used a period 2/3rds of the way through it. 3) Erase is just the popular term for it that came into use before anyone really understood how things worked, a lot like how survival of the fittest doesn't mean that body builders will eventually dominate the genepool. Ug, you- it's like paint over blueprints or other instructions. Maybe step four has an odd blotcht or the background color and the letters in it are a little different and might not make sense with the things before and after it. If you aren't just scanning over it without much thought you'd probably notice at least a few of these things, after that you just need to be careful about scratching away that layer of paint without damaging what's beneath. -though Phil's work is probably much higher quality than what I've described here since I only ever notice that things don't seem to fit, though they're small enough that it's generally not worth the risk of damaging my memory by trying to peel away something that's not there, since probably wouldn't discover anything more interesting than Phil taking naughty pictures.
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:13 pm
What can I say? Sho is right on that last account.
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Thaddeus rolled 2 6-sided dice:
3, 6
Total: 9 (2-12)
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:43 am
You're still wrong about the willpower thing. It's in the book. I saw it. Yes, it is possible to sneak into someone's head and alter things. But if they are set enough in their worldview, changes can't be made. Or they are immediately overwritten. It does, however, take a lot of work to become that firm of mind. It's like how you can't mind-control the Hulk. His mind is too set and, much like everything else about the Hulk, it only goes in the direction he wants it to. Of course, there are other ways to get the Hulk on your side, but that's neither here nor there. And also, if you're aware enough, you'll know when somebody else is in your mind in the first place. But I suppose it is unfair of me to expect that from everyone. Nobody really bothers to exercise their awareness and mental fitness these days. I've had a lot of bad experiences with mental manipulation. And I know good people that are still on the SG's payroll, which causes me to worry a bit about the road we're going down. (And if you're not talking about erasing minds, don't use the term. It's not the popular term with me. I'm a very literal-minded, unreasonable killing-machine, after all.) I may be crazy, but I do know that Phil is a good operative. And I'll trust him to know where the line is. Besides, if you start abusing your abilities, I could always just kill you. ninja
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:57 pm
Ah- I just avoid having a set mental view of how everything works because it's very likely that I'll find out that I'm wrong about all those things I thought to be absolute.
The last time that happened the consequences were pretty nasty and I'm still unsure of why I didn't degenerate into an emokid. So basically I was lucky but I don't want to take that sort of risk again.
Conveniently, this makes the realization that many of my experiences are false not that big of a deal. Then, since I expect to be perpetually exploring, I come across any major altercations fairly often.
Letsee...
Well, besides that it doesn't matter what your willpower is if your senses are being disrupted physically. With enough directional acceleration the blood WILL be forced away from your eyes and you WILL lose your sight. There are generally simpler ways to disrupt hearing, smell, and taste- touch is probably the hardest to disrupt as someone would have to get close enough to inject you with something but it's not beyond some people's capabilities to do that.
And then, depending on the level of technology the shadow government hasn't given to the public your senses could easily be permanently controlled with a smalle implant (or several if they only have marginally more advanced technology than is available to the public.)
Additionally there are substances that inhibit memory formation (drunks sometimes experience too much of this chemical and it's commom practice to inject it into a person about to have that rectum camera procedure thing or similar unpleasant experiences.
-so willpower or no your senses are not infallible.
On the bright side there's not much reason to bother having anyone skilled enough to perform these things on a restrained person try to do this to you with the risk of being reduced to a pile of flesh of maybe a few piles if you were particularly angerred but you never know-
it probably wouldn't be too difficult to have mosquitos or similar insects inject a lot of these chemicals...
Well, I've lost touch with where I was heading with this but the possiblities are endless so there *nyaa*
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Thaddeus rolled 2 6-sided dice:
1, 1
Total: 2 (2-12)
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:39 pm
I conceded that Phil knows what he is doing, why do you insist on beating a dead horse? And I don't appreciate your high-browed, backhanded little way of calling me closed-minded. Having the mental fortitude to block psychic attacks is an admirable trait, and I'll not have you sully it. So you have an open mind? Bully for you. It sure as hell won't save you. If you have an open mind and no will power, then your mind has no defense. You become mere putty in the hands of those who would seek to make you their tool. What you need is not just an open mind, but the will power to keep yourself planted firm, so that instead of being carried along with the flow, you go where and when you believe you should. After all, just because you're open to other ideas doesn't mean that where you stood in the first place is wrong. People need to be meditative, considerate; they need to take the viable alternatives to their current world view, not as something that is trying to weaken their stance, but simply as more data to be weighed before the best path becomes clear. Will power is how you stop psionic attacks. That's how the Universe runs. And, if I recall, we were talking about psionics here. You're bringing up alcohol, drugs, and other more manual means of "mind manipulation" has no bearing on this conversation, and serves to do nothing more than annoy me. Now you're the one taking my 'popular phrasing' and going in the wrong direction with it. But as a side note, I don't care whether of not drunks lose their memories, as they are no longer human to me. Excessive consumption of alcohol is a filthy human weakness, and I'll thank you not to remind me of everything I hate about humanity while we're trying to save the world. It tends to break my concentration. ninja
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:42 pm
you know what else alters memmory? acute head trama.
Let's all just agree that you all talk too much and discuss something else?
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Thaddeus rolled 2 6-sided dice:
4, 3
Total: 7 (2-12)
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:43 am
Excellent. My attempt to end the discussion has finally been seconded. As a new topic, I suggest one of the questions of the ages: How awesome would it be if you could shoot bullets out of your eyes? ninja
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:50 am
not awesome at all, do you have any idea the kind of eat that would build up inside your head with that sort of thing happening? not to mention the fact that bullets project from the end of your gun because of explosions... EXPLOSIONS THAD... do you want tine explosions inside your head and then have tiny chunks of pointy, incredibly hot metal to fly out of your eyes!?!?
Now if you could get 'em to come out of your nose... now you'd be talkin'
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