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Michael Noire
Captain

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 12:52 pm


emergency back up for BST post during Archive

Concerning Durability: I've already covered this subject, at length, in detail. I will not recopy the 2-20 pages it entailed. Instead I will comment on the conclusions:

Durability is a necessity for sinking. A system was suggested for overheating (common to guns and machines). The math of Durability and Overheating are directly related to hit points and regeneration.

Regeneration and Armor ratios are linked, and come from the same "pool" of forces. It was concluded an object could not both regenerate (or cool down) and block damage (armor) simultaneously. It could however, do one, then the other. (the math of those conclusions has already been described. No need to go over it again)

Fact of the matter is, guns are going to run out of ammo. The ammo is going to leave smoke residue and will require cleaned, it the gun will eventually jam or backfire.
Computers are given heat sinks to allow them to run consistently, but they also need fans, however, they also collect dust, which must be cleaned out, or they fail.
Lightbulbs eventually burn out, guitar strings snap at awkward moments, and yes, swords do grow dull, some do chip or crack, and most weapons can be broken, cut, burned, or otherwise destroyed.

It was my idea to connect weapon Durability to weapon Block-ability, thus weapons could be used as Armor, and vice versa. I had suggested that specific part of your body, a hit pocation, or item could be specified as your "shield/armor" and if the block skill succeeded, that object (likce a bracer or staff) would be struck instead of you.
Its Stopping power would soak up whatever damage it could, the rest going to the object's durability. As the object durability went down, so would its stopping power. (Ala cyberpunk). When the durability hit zero, the item would completely be destroyed.

An item could be repaired at any juncture in which it was not completely destroyed. The more damage the item had taken, the more it would cost. The greater the original Durability/enchantment/tech/etc. of the item, the higher the skill of the smith/techie required, and thus more expensive.

Characters who had skills to build items would also have skills to fix them, while characters who had skills to use specific weapons might have an additional subspecialty called weapon maintainence. This option would not be free or standard. There are millions of people today who own weapons and use them and don't have a clue how they work.

Just try sharpening a cut-co knife sometime... You'll understand.

>> Mikle: the effect editor for casting time etc. might be a possibility, it should definitely be taken into consideration although im worried it still may lack a certain element.

In rolling initiative backwards then forwards, you can have two types. The knowledge of the future and the ability to act in the past. This is somewhat confusing for me to explain but very easy to code.

During Declaration, a character can be forced to declare their action, say, on Segment 9 of the combat round, but they may be able to see declarations only to the 9th segment. Meanwhile, the Faster person may be able to see the displays of Declared actions to the 10th segment, and declare their action anywhere between the 1st and the 10th (much before, precisely on, or 1 step after the 9th segment actor).

Many martial arts effects require not a tremendously faster person, but someone who has timing. Some actions may have a declaration in description "Must be triggered 1 segment before attack" while others may be set at "1 segment after" or "on the same segment (example: when two weapons lock in a video game for being simultaneous)

The idea of a precognitive, is the ability to see a few extra segments down the line (such as +3), while a more powerful precognitive could see like 99 segments down the road.

Seeing and doing are two different things. They are often connected but not always.

Three examples:

Jane acts on Segment 9, and has no hyper cheese powers or time stuff, so she also sees the count from 0 to 9, then it stops for her. She is fighting Miko. Miko has an Initiative/speed of 10, so he sees 1-10 declarations in his text box, as well as having the option to then declare where in he will act.

Tim and Kau are fighting. Tim is a precognitive, which gives him a a "view" advantage of +3, but only has a 9 speed. This means his body only moves so quickly, even if he sees it coming. Kau has a speed of 10, but no precognition. Thus Tim declares his action 1-9, then Kau sees Tim's declaration, then Tim sees the declations of 10-12.
Alternatively (and more common sense worthy) Kau declares first, actions 1-10, and Tim sees segments 1-12, but may only declare between 1 and 9. Thus if an action takes place at "10" Tim is powerless to stop it, simply being without the power (liek a man falling from an airplane without a parachute). Thus Kau could have the advantage if he knows about Tim's precognitive ability and relies on pure speed.

Jake is hyped up on Drugs which allow his body to respond really fast, but he's got no clear vision of whats going on. His original 10 Speed was given a -3 for Viewing purposes, (perception) and a +3 on acting. So on the 7th phase he may declare his action to be anywhere from 0-13, but then he doesn't get to see anything else, such as the man with a 12 speed and Viewing ability.

>>
One of the great things about code like this is "mental" effects. If you are Berserked, you get all sorts of crazy bonuses, but you also lose control. The easiest way to deal with that would be a hefty penalty (possibly reducing to 0) to the "View" phase, so you wouldn't be able to see the consequences of your actions, until it was too late.

Obviously this is a tactics turn based system, though by adding "extra actions" into certain segments, it allows for a myriad of possibilities. Certain actions take longer to execute (as Mikle was discussing) like casting a spell.

It was suggested a while back that Endurance/Stun might be lost as a person ran around, worked out, or swung a big sword (which is why many would prefer lighter weapons and clothes, even though silk has a really lame defensive and warmth ability, and even though a Fan or light stick has lower kinetic impact, etc.)

I hereby propose a similarly coded stat for Speed. It is a modification for the original, Speed being the Primary Attribute used (except psionics which use Mind instead). This is then Multiplied by a "swiftness" effect...

Swiftness may be one of the "cups of koolaid" effected by multiple sources. (like chronokinesis, psychic powers, perception, Combat Sense, Certain martial arts, etc.)

[Swiftness +2]x Speed = your action point pool Each round, or sometihng to that effect. The more points you have, obviously, the bigger your actions can be, because you accomplish them swiftly. For example, some people type faster than others even though its the same skill and effect. The points would some how roll over, so for example, if you had about 200 points of Time per round, and had to cast a 500 point spell, it may take 2 +1/2 rounds to do so.

In general (but not always) more lengthy actions tend to be more powerful.

Also note that physically faster actions tend to eat up more stun, (you get tired fast sprinting than walking), while mentally faster actions tend to eat up more resolve (critical thinking in an SAT is more stressful than having a day to plan what you are going to have for lunch tommorrow).
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:39 pm


I have a feeling that the cost of the battle system progression table is going to result in an unfair advantage to exchangers and people with extraordinary amounts of Gold.

From what I've been able to tell, they may use a system of level + item conversion for gold on the ring effects, and the rings represent wearable items that do not actually show up on your avatar.

From what Ive seen, they may be taking something from Grownlanzer, which might come out well, however, if the level 15 translates to 100,000,

we could form a basic log function to get the following variables:

1
2 -- 12
3 -- 25
4 -- 50
5 -- 100
6 -- 200
7 -- 400
8 -- 800
9 -- 1600
10 - 3200
11 - 6400
12 - 12,500 (12,800)
13 - 25 k (32 k)
14 - 50k (64 k)
15 -100,000 (128 k)

essentially, its an extrapolation progression chart. The problem is prices beyond 14th level become troublesome from the normal methods of making money.If it follows a pattern similar to this, you can expect about 200k for a total of 15th level, and 100 million for 25th level. The factor follows a x1000 or so progression. This value system could be false, but it appears to represent sliding power scale, a scale strongly favoring those with lots of money.

Michael Noire
Captain


kita mouryou

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:21 pm


((Alright Noire Im here. Now what is it that you need? smile ))
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:47 pm


Ladykai
((Alright Noire Im here. Now what is it that you need? smile ))


my most previous post is a concern for all of us who plan on entering battle. For those of us running roleplaying Guilds, that's a major concern. We are essentially going to have to start gathering enough gold in our stocks to be able to level, and at the same time, protest against the system, and demand the opportunity to gain the appropriate amount of gold for advancement,

otherwise the social structure of Gaia is going to crumble.

Michael Noire
Captain


kita mouryou

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:25 am


Anthon Noire
Ladykai
((Alright Noire Im here. Now what is it that you need? smile ))


my most previous post is a concern for all of us who plan on entering battle. For those of us running roleplaying Guilds, that's a major concern. We are essentially going to have to start gathering enough gold in our stocks to be able to level, and at the same time, protest against the system, and demand the opportunity to gain the appropriate amount of gold for advancement,

otherwise the social structure of Gaia is going to crumble.
thats true expecially when some items are high in price and expecially for those questing items, but the battle system is a good idea that way there is no "God Modding" and such and its an even battle. As far as levels go the levels should be earned and not bought, like a basic video game. You are right though about the "Strongly Favoring Those With Lots Of Monye" By the chart you have shown that is correct. Maybe we should bring to gaia admins is that maybe you should earn it and level the user/player up based on battles won or faught!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:50 pm


im actually opposed to the idea that expeirence is earned only through battle, or even the imbalanced majority. While playing an X Men game using the Champions of Norath engine, it became obvious that there was really no point in playing the game. I could already see where it was going. The Customization was a joke, the number of "monsters' to choose from limited, and the plot line nothing more than a way of propelling players from one set of monsters to the next. The sadest part perhaps, was the endless number of leveled magic items (true to the champions of norath engine) that made the entire game so terrible we finally shut it off in favor of some boat movie called "Master and Commander".

there are thousands of ways to test people, for people to learn, for people to grow, and the "kill XP" value shouldn't be the only one, or even the majority.

Michael Noire
Captain


kita mouryou

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:53 pm


Honestly I dont have a reply for this but, i say gaia should run a test and keep a check on how many users use the battle system out of how many users there are on gaia!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:23 pm


I've begun programming it.

Michael Noire
Captain


Michael Noire
Captain

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:17 pm


been thinknig about combat resolution with the strategy bar, it seems like if you have attack followed by dodge, parry, block, and riposte, it gets hard to determine just exactly what kind of defense is going into effect.

I've thought about it and seems like a person who successfully dodges isn't going to be blocking, parrying, or riposting,

just like a person riposting has to be parrying as part of the process.

So riposte is a contingent effect just like grapple -> throw or grapple->lock or charge spell->cast spell.

Then it also occurs to me a person blocking is trying to absorb damage to their body or armor, while a person trying to parry is doing the same with a weapon.

It makes sense that you could dodge with your legs, parry with your sword, and block with your other hand, but after that you are running out of body parts.

Multiple actions and superspeed sort of come into play but in a one action or one chain reaction, these two factors don't matter, and it goes back to body parts.

A person thus parrying with a one handed weapon can also block with the other hand, though perhaps not as effectively bringing up the idea of half-block vs. full-block.

this could be renamed block and full-block, with similar results for parry.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:38 pm


so what ive been thinking lately is that if the skill/stat relationship looks like this:

stat = A
skill = B

then if A > B
A - B = C
Integer(C) = D
B + D = E
E = base total.

this could probably be compounded with other categories like Equipment and Buffs.

Thus if the stat is 99 and the skill is zero, the base bonus is +33.

Hypothetically, if you had Equipment bonuses, stat bonuses, and spell bonuses,
your total might be +33, +33, +33, for a total of +99.

Naturally, the way it is written, each of these values decreases as the core skill rises.
--
also been thinking about some other stuff, but I seem to have forgotten it.

Michael Noire
Captain


Michael Noire
Captain

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:32 pm


BST triangle revisited.

ok, I'll do my best to explain:

first, I added a new command called "strategy", at the bottom of the actor command window. Basically this will eventually be the replacement for Guard, since it includes "guard" like actions.
Strategy allows an actor to decide "how" they will fight, by changing their focus in three categories important in battle:

* your sense of timing
* your sense of attacker vs. defender
* your level of rage vs. self control


Timing governs initiative and patience - the yellow/blue bar. Favoring initiative means you tend to attack first, Favoring patience means you wait for an opening, maximizing criticals. This is a boxing strategy.
attacker/defender are using variants of anime/Martial Art terms Semeru and Ukeru - the green/indigo bar in the middle. In practice, the 'Uke" is the person who receives the attack, so their defense and preparation to get hit/thrown is maxed out. The "Seme" or attacker is focusing on properly hitting and throwing, so their skill at attacking and stamina to keep up the offense is higher.
rage/self control governs brutality and finesse - the red/orange bar at the bottom. Angry people tend to throw wild powerful blows, and swing swords a lot harder, but their accuracy sucks. A person with a lot of finesse is accurate, agile, and effective.

A bonus in one category is a penalty in it's opposite. So we are looking at

* Evasion (agi: vs. hit & crit),finesse,
* Initiative (going first),<-initiative, opposite patience
* Critical (dmg multiplier),<-patience
* Damage (base dmg),<-brutality, opposite finesse
* Attack (chance to hit),<-seme
* and Defense (vs. dmg)<-uke, opposite seme
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:13 am


so I've now integrated dodge and hit together with the Triangle, to use .agg and .uke.

a low .uke represents a high semeru, which is attack bonus.
since uke ranges from 10 ()highest submissive) to -10 (highly seme),

x - - 10 = x +10.

.agg is finesse and aggression, with 10 being high finesse (dodge), and -10 the same as high aggression (damage).

I might need to revise how hit points are done before this, but for now, it doesn't seem necessary yet.

There's a critical hit skill that needs to be integrated, which should be useful as a stand alone x1 skill "Critical Hit", and as an addition to other skills - like anatomy (for Doctors of the Fava bean variety) and atemi (martial arts pressure points and exploding heads).

high criticals come from patience - the opposite side of .spd.

.spd should be jumping your initiative, and possibly multi-attack, which is another skill that needs working. I've noticed in the core engine, there appears to be times where i get multiple attacks. I have no idea what that's about, but I think I have to find out in order to mess with initiative correctly, besides a sorting mechanism.

It seems to me there's still the issue of damage bonus from low .agg (same as high brutality) and damage reduction from high uke (rolling with the attacks). That is probably the more straight forward action to program next.

Michael Noire
Captain


Michael Noire
Captain

PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:57 am


so far, I'm thinking of having Perception and Critical hit as subskills of Intelligence. A subskill is going to gain bonuses from a very high attribute, as long as the attribute is higher than the skill.

Subskills are sort of like derived attributes, in that they automatically exist by virtue of having stats.

They are different from 0-99x2-101 matrices in that they don't multiply, since they aren't intended to produce figures over 99.

meanwhile I'm contemplating Mecha.

So far I'm thinking Motor-bike transformer and Jet transformer. I'm not sure if there should be a Spaceship transformer if I already have a jet transformer.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:11 am


i have to think more carefully about how I derive stats... this is from about 2005.

Quote:
actually why dont we make Sanity a Sub attribute, more technically a "prestige" sub attribute. ?

Metaphysical Experiences

>HP Variant: Mana(MP) 0-9999

Will
>Sanity (linked to Imagination)
>Intuition (linked to perception)
>>HP Variant: Resolve 0-9999

Intellect
>Imagination (linked to sanity)
>Perception (linked to intuition)
>>HP Variant: Creativity 0-9999

Charisma
>Social Status
>Spirit Status


Physical Experiences

>HP Hit Points: Health 0-9999

Stamina
>Endurance (x stamina = HP)
>>HP Variant: Stun 0-9999

Strength
>Encumbrance (linked to movement)

Speed
>Movement (linked to encumbrance)

Michael Noire
Captain


Michael Noire
Captain

PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:56 pm


well this stuff totally failed,


if self.is_a?(Game_Actor)
n = int / 3 #base, can be increased later...(fingers crossed)
else
case self.element_ranks(20)
when 1 # Thugs & Giants
n = int / 5
when 2 # Cattle & Mall Rats
n = int / 4
when 3 # Dragons & Hunters
n = int / 3
when 4 # Elves & Zen Masters
n = int / 2
when 5 # Spirits
n = int
when 6 # Machines, Oblivious
n = 0
end
return n
end


#--------------------------------------------------------------------------
# * Get Perception (PER)
#--------------------------------------------------------------------------
def per=(per)
@per = [[per, 99].min, Integer(n)].max
end


probably because stats have to for some reason be added to the Game_Enemy and Game_Actor section for attribute display. Really not sure.
Reply
Alexandria

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