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...I actually realized that you said that belief and religion are different... sweatdrop I know that, but kinda missed that you had said that... If I had not missed that, I probably wouldn't have raved on and on about such... sweatdrop

Look. I just said that I blieve that anybody who does not accept Jesus as the forgiver of sins is damned. But nobody has to even listen to my belief, thus making it poinless to them. And pointless for me to Say it, but just telling me that it is sad because I believe that way, is not gonna change me. Just because I believe that someone is damned, doesn't mean that I don't care or love them. I have friends, who in my religion says they are damned, and I believe it, but I still love them. As for what you said on love, there are many kinds of love. Unconditional love, which is ageless, bears all things, knows no lie, is what you are thinking of. It is known to the greeks as AGAPE (is translated as divine, unconditional, self-sacrificing love) (source from wikipedia) I know that it comes in different forms, but then, when I say that gays are a "screw-up of nature," I am talking about sexual love, which is different, and does have borders, a finish, can break. People always think there is only one type of love. there is more than two forms of love, and I won't go on listing them all, But in the case of marrige, you need both. You said "That is just their preference." But some people deny, or even know they are, but wish it not so, but it would be futile. Not all gays want to be gay. And I do happen to have friends who are gay, and are christian. For truth, truth is absolute, and unchanging (taken from a quote from my philosophy teacher) Fact is an agreement of of what is, from a large community. What you are talking about is PoV, Point of View. on the "Jesus can't walk on water" thing because he has mass and weight? it is possible. Remember that anything is possible to God (and in science, but that goes into quantum theory and relativity). There are insects commonly known as water striders, which don't break the water's tention. They have mass and weight. And your HOLY BOOK known to many as the Torrah, is also something we worship, but to us christians, is the old testament. I don't get that last bit.... did you say that you call the torrah stories? eek In my life, I've only met a few people who stand up to my face, and say that... (but anybody who gets in my face and insults my religion, and when i say get in my face, I mean nose touching nose, they either lose a tooth, or get socked in the stomach for that, but more than likely the latter) If you call them stories, then... what's your basic reference? I have nothing against that, and nothe that what I said is just a little more information to correct. I am not saying that you must convert, and I will not tell you to convert, but I am saying that I believe that what I believe is the absolute truth, but the absolute truth will be revealed to all in the end. Have a good day.

Christian and Proud 3nodding heart

Sorry to dredge up an old topic, but I had just asked TBC in a PM about this very subject.

Red- I'm not going to attack your beliefs, just so you know, but you do realise that many other forms of the Christian faith believe that the Catholics have it wrong, and (I know this next part is false, my husband was raised Catholic) many other Christians believe that Catholics "worship" the Virgin Mary? I've never understood why they think this, it's obviously not fact. neutral

Sky-Rock on girl! heart

As for my own beliefs, well, I'll just say this: I was raised Christian, baptised at age 18 when I went to an Independant Fundamental Baptist church with my boyfriend of the time. I no longer completely believe that way, nor do I completely disagree with it. I'd say what I do believe, but there is no real word for it, though Pagan comes very close.

I have two things to say to anyone about religion:
1. Watch the movie Dogma.
2. Read Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality series.

Then come talk to me about beliefs, because if you can keep an open mind about works of fiction like those, you can keep an open mind about your beliefs, and the beliefs of others.

this is sorta off topic i know but when i grew up i was raised a Jahovah's Witness(im not anymore i dissagree with most of the beleifs and feel its a lot like a cult)
anyways they used to teach us that the virgen mary was jesus's mother but i never understood how christians could thing thats the holy ghost god and jesus were all the same like...how could jesus come to earth and tell himself what to do...anyone able to explain that too me...
if it makes any sense... sweatdrop

ok
when i was little i went to a day care where they taught us about the holy trinity thing
jesus holy ghost and god all same person right?
what i always wondered was...if jesus came to earth and he's supposed to be god
why would he say how god told him to do this and that
it be like he was telling himself what to do...
hope that makes more sense sweatdrop

I believe in God, I just don't believe in having a guideline to live my life by.

So many people dying in wars in the name of God, it's religious fanaticism that causes people to march into war, fighting for a nation under God. I can't do that, I can't be a religious nut who watches everything I do and say as to not upset God. When I do things, I mean them and I was always taught to not say you're sorry if you aren't. I'm not going to beg for forgiveness from God if I'm not sorry for something I did that was against these so called guidelines of life.

I don't believe many parts of the bible, but I don't think it's all fiction either. Many bible huggers use their religion as a crutch to walk through life on, they depend too much on it and most of the time it leads to feeling disappointed. When they ask why bad things happen, "God works in mysterious ways" or "Some questions are better left unanswered" gets thrown in their face; when half your family dies off in less than a year and you were praying to God every night and doing everything a good christian could do and nothing was getting better, that sort of stuff isn't what you want to hear, you want to know why, exactly and to the point. That's my situation for tossing those so called guidelines out the window and my life has been a lot more carefree since then too. Some people might spout I'm not a true christian or whatever because I believe in gay marriages/relationships or I don't go to church, blah blah atleast I believe and have some shards of faith left in me (though most were thrown out the window after all my relatives died).

So, that's my 2 cents about religion. It's a long post, but sometimes when you get to typing about something you are personally touchy with, things just keep coming out. I feel a lot better now for some odd reason neutral .

okay, many people have that on them... I've heard that so many times

let's recount a war "in the name of God" crusades: the greed of the midieval christians, want of land, ie-jerusalem. many wars in the name of god, are just using God as a sheild, when God doesn't actually have something do do with it. Greed, politics... the war on terrorism is not about God, and is Bushes idiotic idea, where he spends so much money and lives on it, rather than educating the people. I mean, a real education, where you are taught morality, and not just given information. We have security guards who are being paid $6 an hour, so they really don't have the insentive to protect us... rather than going out of our country to make us safer, as an offense, we should become more defensive and make our inside stronger. On the point of not making God mad and not saying sorry, it's good that you don't say things you don't mean, but if you offend someone, it's only right you appologise. I don't understand how someone can intentionally insult someone, and be happy with it, or not care. And with someone who does it mistakenly, or by accident, I don't understand how you cannot just feel so bad as to ask forgiveness. It just makes no sense, no logic. As for the "guidelines of life," the only "guidelines are the 10 commandments, and the one added by Jesus "love one another as I have loved you," which those are not guidelines, rather COMMANDMENTs. If you have don wrong against that, that is the only time you need to ask forgiveness. Such as lying. People say that they have to lie to save someone's life. I do not believe that is true. If you truely think hard enough, then you can find ways to save that person withought lying. It's just that people are too lazy to think of ways other than lying to get their way. Most never try not saying anything, or being vague. honor your parents. different from obeying them. If you think they are wrong, you correct them, but never dishonor them, for that is not right. stealing and killing is understandable. adultery is just plain terrible, and envy is something else. Envy often leads to jealosy and to stealing. God's 10 commandments and Jesus' 11th are all you need to go by, and should you break them, it is simple to give heart felt appology to God. After all, he is always right there. The other things are Virtues, which help you lead a better life, and make life better for the others around you. those are guidelines. The rest of the bible are accounts of what happened. As for the rules you see in the other parts of the bible, are guidelines for that time. And yes. part of the bible is a novel, which was included in the canon. On your response, when people say that "god works in mysterious ways... etc." it's because WE DON'T KNOW. If we knew, we'd tell you. We want to know ourselves, but we have accepted that we won't get the answer, until all is revealed, at the end time. Church is only a place to be with people of the same beliefs. It's pretty much... a... club, so to speak. You celebrate something of importance of a person's life, and you are able to communicate with others, a give and take community. they will console you when you are down, and they are there with you when you are happy. On Gay marriges, I am okay with a political standpoint, but when it comes to people I know, it makes me really upset. I have a few friends who are... homosexual, or bi. I know what the experience of being moked(because I was often thought of as Gay, since I hang out with them)being okay with homosexuality is not just what the church is against, it's perversion as a whole. pretty much all types of sex, such as oral and a**l... etc. except for thraditional sex, which is is the same way done for reprocuction, for sex is a sacred thing itself, other than jsut pleasure. As long as you obey the "11 commandments" as I say, you are okay. I don't think you are really refering to the 10 commandments when you refer to the guidelines, but that is just to say what is on my mind.

I understand that you are upset, and probably puzzled at God, if not upset with(or possibly hateful toward, for letting such tragedies occur) but you should still hold out, and hold your old beliefs, for God is there. I know you probably heard this before, but: everyone will be together in the end. and Death is only part of life. If you really understand like so many of those christians who "are bible huggers" and those who go to church, then you woudn't feel as bad, as peope are there to console you, and you have a deeper understanding of what it means, and have less heart ache.

I know you probably are gonna have this whole rebuttal, but this was all in my belief, and you don't have to listen, but I am happy that you read it all. I want your reply, and I will be happy to respond. I don't know what you are going thorugh, so I can't really stand up to my word, and, I might also do the same thing you are doing, should the same situation happen to me, but please understand, that I do want to help you, and not agrivate you. May God bless you.