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 Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:46 am
FreeArsenal Mcphee FreeArsenal I only agree if lubricant is considered a contraceptive.
Not the MOST effective one, but it's better when used with other methods.Other methods?
And BC Pills.
And all those other goodies.
The "phragm", for another.
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:48 am
Mcphee FreeArsenal Mcphee FreeArsenal I only agree if lubricant is considered a contraceptive.
Not the MOST effective one, but it's better when used with other methods.Other methods?
And BC Pills.
And all those other goodies.
The "phragm", for another.Eh, I was thinking something else. xd
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:22 pm
I think I get what you're implying by "other" methods . . . XD
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:28 pm
Girls don't really need lube for that. Unless it's warming lube.
Oooh lala.
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:31 pm
Beware the Jabberwock Girls don't really need lube for that. Unless it's warming lube.
Oooh lala. Lube between the chest... twisted
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:56 pm
Mcphee Here's the thing, to me.
Either we don't hand out contraceptions, and people don't have them ready when they want to have sex, and get pregnant, and abort, and that's another dead child...
OR, we can HAVE them available, prevent an unwanted pregnancy, and prevent an unwanted (to us lifers) abortion. What are people more likely to agree on, outlawing abortion or providing free contraception? And they both have the same ultimate effect!
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:14 pm
La Veuve Zin Mcphee Here's the thing, to me.
Either we don't hand out contraceptions, and people don't have them ready when they want to have sex, and get pregnant, and abort, and that's another dead child...
OR, we can HAVE them available, prevent an unwanted pregnancy, and prevent an unwanted (to us lifers) abortion. What are people more likely to agree on, outlawing abortion or providing free contraception? And they both have the same ultimate effect! YEah i guess, but in either case, my dating pool gets smaller. sweatdrop
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:20 pm
La Veuve Zin Mcphee Here's the thing, to me.
Either we don't hand out contraceptions, and people don't have them ready when they want to have sex, and get pregnant, and abort, and that's another dead child...
OR, we can HAVE them available, prevent an unwanted pregnancy, and prevent an unwanted (to us lifers) abortion. What are people more likely to agree on, outlawing abortion or providing free contraception? And they both have the same ultimate effect! I very much agree! Making abortion unneeded will work better than outlawing it, in my opinion. And, as soon as some genious can invent a 100% effective, fool-proof contraception, abortion won't be used other than for cases where the woman's life is in danger (like a dead fetus that doesn't miscarry, which doesn't happen often) and it wouldn't matter, to me at least, if it was illegal in most other cases (I don't know what to do about rape cases in that, maybe someone will also have to invent fetal transplanting/adoption so that someone else can carry the unborn human). I can dream at least.
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:36 pm
but in the meantime, we can work to stop the travesty that occurs as we speak. illegalized is better in every case as it saves more lives immediately.
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:09 pm
divineseraph but in the meantime, we can work to stop the travesty that occurs as we speak. illegalized is better in every case as it saves more lives immediately. Not really. Banning it in cities/counties just sends people outside those areas for abortions. Banning it in states just sends people outside those states. Even an all out ban in this country (which isn't likely to happen) would send many people to other countries for abortions, as well as drive women to get illegal (and often dangerous) abortions. Educating people about contraceptives (and possibly making contraceptives more widely available), fixing the (racist and agist) adoption system, as well as helping pregnant women to afford prenatal care, giving birth, and raising a child, would do far more to actually stopping abortions than attempting to ban it. If women don't get pregnant, they obviously won't choose to abort, and if they are able to feel confident that their offspring's life will be good (either when raised by them or some other couple/person) they are going to be less likely to abort. Far more good would be had if abortion were unnecessary than if it were simply illegal.
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:31 am
I think I said it earlier, but I don't know if you understand that the whole reason I am against the government giving out contraception is the principle of the matter. The government should be small and should take care of certain things, like the police and the military, and it should be limited to those things. It doesn't matter whether or not people will donate to the private organizations that would, hopefully, rise up to take the place of what the government used to fund. Just because people don't do it themselves doesn't give us the right to force them to do it.
I mean look at it this way: Should we force everyone to serve ten years in a branch of the military at the age of 18, no matter their views on war? That would be preposterous, outrageous. But we need soldiers, and they won't volunteer themselves! Doesn't that make it right? Does that mean that they do not care about and support the people in the military, that they aren't willing to be there and have their backs for them?
No. It doesn't. And that's why I am not being unsupportive of pregnant women by being against the government funding free contraception. It's not the government's job to take care of everyone in that way, and it's not the government's right to force other people to pay for it.
On the other hand, I do support a shorter term of either military or social work at the age of eighteen, say, two years? Not forced one way or the other, but everyone chooses for themself whether military or social work.
And on the other other hand, I know that your opinion of how the government works is completely different, Miranda. I believe you support government funded health care and that sort of thing? That's fine. It just means that you think the government should take care of us in more ways then I do, and my reasons for disagreeing with you there are varied, but this thread isn't the place to argue it.
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:27 pm
Could those of you who think that free contraception will solve the problem of abortion please explain why you think that? From what I'm reading, you seem to be making a big assumption that's simply not true: that free and available contraception means people will use it.
My best friend's older sister had the means to buy contraception, had family members willing to buy it for her, but in the end you know what she chose to do? She chose to use abortion as her method of birth control.
People don't use birth control for far more reasons than simply not being able to get it, and making it available doesn't mean that they will use it, even if that was a large reason why they weren't using it in the beginning.
I don't have a stance on the government providing free contraception in particular (yet), but I do think that you cannot, in any way, say that free contraception (or even 100% affective contraception) will somehow magically change how responsible people are or their reasons for using or not using it.  Happy
Halloween!
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:11 pm
WatersMoon110 divineseraph but in the meantime, we can work to stop the travesty that occurs as we speak. illegalized is better in every case as it saves more lives immediately. Not really. Banning it in cities/counties just sends people outside those areas for abortions. Banning it in states just sends people outside those states. Even an all out ban in this country (which isn't likely to happen) would send many people to other countries for abortions, as well as drive women to get illegal (and often dangerous) abortions. Educating people about contraceptives (and possibly making contraceptives more widely available), fixing the (racist and agist) adoption system, as well as helping pregnant women to afford prenatal care, giving birth, and raising a child, would do far more to actually stopping abortions than attempting to ban it. If women don't get pregnant, they obviously won't choose to abort, and if they are able to feel confident that their offspring's life will be good (either when raised by them or some other couple/person) they are going to be less likely to abort. Far more good would be had if abortion were unnecessary than if it were simply illegal. I'd like to say that education is overrated, people are only educated to think a certain way, not to think of how to solve problems.
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:29 pm
Ava R. Could those of you who think that free contraception will solve the problem of abortion please explain why you think that? From what I'm reading, you seem to be making a big assumption that's simply not true: that free and available contraception means people will use it.
My best friend's older sister had the means to buy contraception, had family members willing to buy it for her, but in the end you know what she chose to do? She chose to use abortion as her method of birth control.
People don't use birth control for far more reasons than simply not being able to get it, and making it available doesn't mean that they will use it, even if that was a large reason why they weren't using it in the beginning.
I don't have a stance on the government providing free contraception in particular (yet), but I do think that you cannot, in any way, say that free contraception (or even 100% affective contraception) will somehow magically change how responsible people are or their reasons for using or not using it. However, many people don't have access to birth control, and aren't educated about it (why and how to use it). There are probably people having sex right now who have no idea why using a condom or a birth control pill would make them less likely to create a pregnancy. You're right, there will always be people who choose not to use contraceptives for whatever reason. (Abortion, by the way, is a form of birth control, as it ends pregnancy and so controls birth - but I agree that it shouldn't be the primary form of birth control used.) But making sure that everyone can get, afford, and knows how to use birth control WILL drop the rate of unexpected pregnancies (just like it did in the 90s) and so drop the number of abortions preformed. If your goal is to make less abortions preformed, then making sure that more people have access to contraceptives will defiently help this.
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:31 pm
FreeArsenal WatersMoon110 divineseraph but in the meantime, we can work to stop the travesty that occurs as we speak. illegalized is better in every case as it saves more lives immediately. Not really. Banning it in cities/counties just sends people outside those areas for abortions. Banning it in states just sends people outside those states. Even an all out ban in this country (which isn't likely to happen) would send many people to other countries for abortions, as well as drive women to get illegal (and often dangerous) abortions. Educating people about contraceptives (and possibly making contraceptives more widely available), fixing the (racist and agist) adoption system, as well as helping pregnant women to afford prenatal care, giving birth, and raising a child, would do far more to actually stopping abortions than attempting to ban it. If women don't get pregnant, they obviously won't choose to abort, and if they are able to feel confident that their offspring's life will be good (either when raised by them or some other couple/person) they are going to be less likely to abort. Far more good would be had if abortion were unnecessary than if it were simply illegal. I'd like to say that education is overrated, people are only educated to think a certain way, not to think of how to solve problems. Actually, the entire point of all education is (or at least, should be) to help people to think in ways that allows them to better solve problems. Are you saying that teaching people how to use contraceptives and why to do so will not help to lower the rate of unexpected pregnancies?
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