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If you're going to take someone's name in vain, make it your own wink Okay, I'm kidding, bad joke, I admit it XD I couldn't resist though =P Whenever people are like OMG! I'm like OML XD I am teh lame.

ANYWAY. Captain has said before that she tends to take a more metaphorical interpretation of the creation stories (like myself). That being the case, it's not a huge leap of faith to think that maybe God did equip us with the ability to adapt to our surroundings. I mean, he's a pretty smart guy. He knows. And the whole "being made in his image" bit - I don't know that they nessicarily mean physically, in which case being originated from apes really doesn't matter. And the thing is - they still have yet to find the missing link that connects us to apes. So while it's possible maybe we evolved from something that looked like apes, we never were apes - or that can't prove we were anyway.

But gererally, if you look at humans we encompass a lot of qualities most animals don't have, like mercy. I think there is definetly a distinction between humans and apes, even in our anscectry. But I think the idea of taking "being created in his image" as literally physical is not looking into the meaning of the scripture enough. It's taking it too much at face value, and with the Bible you have to often quetion what that really means.

So what relevance does that have to us evolving from apes? Now I'm confused.

And you know this because ...?? An ape told you? I don't disagree that they communicate, but that's just because they need it for survival. If they had no way to communcate danger and other things like that to other members of the group, the group would die out. As for the other stuff, I don't see how anyone could possibly know those things unless an ape actually said, "Yes, I experience these things."

Probably, but not by much.


No. Any 'mercy' you see from an ape is parental instinct kicking in


No. Love requires abstract though processes, which apes cannot comprehend


We can do it better. Alot better.


Debateable. I'd say that they can have feelings, but emotions.


Give 'em a medal. That they have an advanced cornea in no way reflects on their intelligence.


Everything has free will in a scientific sense, sans those without any thought-processes.


Compared to a jellyfish? no, they aren't 'dumb'. Compared to humanity? Yeah, they are.


Which means we are drastically different.


Actually, we're the 'only humans'. The other genuses of homo evolved into us.


Darwin disagrees


Because it is. I have advanced thought, the ability to feel emotions, and a soul


Not really, only realistic.

You underestimate the power of science and observation., sweatdrop

Mercy, I'll give into that one, because the difference between instinct and mercy is not particularly observable.

But yes, apes experience emotions. This is a fact. Many, if not most, vertibrates experience observable emotions. Haven't you ever had a pet? Don't you know the difference between when your pet is happy and when it's not?

And yes, apes can form loving attachments to one another. Unless you're talking 'the highest form of romantic love' then I'd say you're being picky, but that's still not observable.



Point taken, but neither side is provable.



How abstract are we talking here?

Like I said earlier in this post, they form stromg loving attachments.



I'm very much not a fan of human arrogance in general, but point taken.



What do you consider to be the difference between feelings and emotions?



Jellyfish are heartless, brainless, spineless creatures and I personally wouldn't go around comparing them to apes.

Do some research. Apes are smarter than you think.



Yes, but Homo Sapiens just means smart humans roughly.



I'm sorry about this, but I feel there was something specific I was supposed to get out of that link and didn't.

If you could just say what it was, that would be great.



Apes thoughts are advanced enough, they can feel emotions, and I believe they do have souls.



It's really a matter of opinion, I suppose.

Which would be...?

I agree with Captain in that I think apes are much more intelligent than this thread is giving them credit for.

We studies Koko the gorilla in my psychology class, and a gorilla like that most definetly has emotions. Koko is actually able to communicate with humans, and she's been known to actually go into depression and go through signs and actions of grieving almost identical to those of humans when someone close to her dies. When the terrorists attacks on the world trade center happened, her reaction basically came down to that she couldn't believe that a species would do that to other members of its race.

Granted, Koko is an anomily. She has an IQ of 80, which is high for a gorilla. But they've done similar studies with other primates which have had varying degrees of sucess. However, it is clear that animals do express emotions.

Really, human's emotions are little more than instincts. Our morals and ethics are cultural conditioning. Look at the human race. We're always fighting some war over something trivial like religion or oil, do you see chimpanzees fighting over that? True, they have small turf wars, but humans have been having turf wars for an extremely long time. Look at Israel and Palestine (did I spell that right?). That's a turf war, that they've cooked up "reasons" for. Now, assuming the Bible was true, God gave us the breath of life, but where is it stated that apes don't have it. Who wrote the Bible anyways? How can we be sure it's accurate?