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So then by this reasoning since I'm vegetarian because my religion puts every living thing on an equal level (I eat fruits and vegetables to survive, and I thank them for their sacrifice every day.) it's understandable that I would hate and discriminate against everyone who isn't vegetarian?

I don't think so. Blatent discrimination is wrong. Period. You can hold your religious beliefs, but the moment you start discriminating because of something that is not hurting you, or anyone around you, except in a mythological sense that's NOT okay. (Yes Christianity is considered mythology by historian's and such.)

actually, many people do act that way. it's not a hate, it's just a dislike...look at us, we dislike abortion.

Christianity has some mythology to it; it was urban legend for hundreds of years until it was written down. It doesn't mean it has no truth to it, because I believe firmly in the bible, it just means that not all the facts are 100% accurate, probably. The truths I believe are, but anyway....

The ancient greeks believed in their gods and goddesses; to them they were real. To everyone else, they are mythological. Same goes with religions today.

Not everyone agrees with homosexuality, just like not everyone agrees with abortion. Some people disagree but don't show it; others are actively racist or homophobic or w/e.

She's got a point, we're all discriminatory. Can't possibly not be unless you accept everyone for who they are and let them do whatever they want. Saying that homophobes or racists shouldn't be like that is in itself intolerant.

Toxic is a liberal, german_bar_wench is a conservative, and it'd be extremely fun to see you two int he same room watching the US presidential debates. Espeically the first one.

There's a significate difference between discrimination and feeling something is wrong. If a woman had an abortion you can feel it's wrong, but the moment you don't hire her for a job because you find out she's had one, even though she's best suited for it, THAT'S discrimination.

You can feel that homosexuality is wrong, but saying that it's understandable or okay that people discriminate against them is NOT okay. Discrimination is never okay. People are naturally biast towards one thing or another, that's not discrimination.

I wouldn't NOT hire someone for being racist or homophobic alone. I may not hire them because the other people working in the office may feel threatened, or afraid to work there with someone who is openly racist/homophobic.

You eat them afterwards! It makes no difference, they're dead either way. xp

maybe we should start a save the chickens guild. nah, jk, but my friend found a chick in her hard boiled egg once...it was...disturbing..... Neither of us eats egg anymore.

Ah, now this is a much better argument, that I must say I enjoyed. You argued your point well and took notice of most of my points.

It doesn't matter if you're black, white, native or whatever else, racism is still racism! I think that if you were raised in the type of situation where all the horrible people around you are of one race you still don't have a right to hate that entire race, because there are many more innocent people that did nothing and don't deserve your hate. If someone, or a group of people, does something wrong to you, hate them and not everyone who looks like them because of a few pigments in the skin or their religious beliefs.
Hitler hated the Jewish people because he was raised in a poor family around many rich Jewish people who refused to help out the poor. He saw them all living their lives happily while he saw the poor struggle so hard. By what you've said, it would be right for Hitler to hate the Jews and therefore prudent to follow with his plan. He killed many, many people including more than a few americans. That kind of makes your views anti-american since you're supporting someone who killed so many of them.

Yes, "black culture" is displayed as a terrible, horrible thing by the media. You don't usually see the honest, hard working men and women but instead th ghetto version. The truth is that the ghetto isn't restricted to just african americans but also people of many other races who can't afford to live somewhere else. So the question is, "Who perpetuates this stereotype?" Sure, there are black people living like that, but there are also black people leading what we would deem as 'normal' lives. Why, it's the racist media making you see the ghetto version rather than the normal one. So, more people become racist because the only people of another race they know are the ones they see on tv. Then it just creates one big cycle of hate.

Unfortunately, it seems the only view of homosexuals, etc is the one that the biased media has shown you as well. I don't know a single person who dresses like that. At least not without a reason and those are just straight people trying to be funny. Maybe you should get to know these people and talk to them before you decide to hate them all as a whole.

Christianity may be your truth but it's not mine. Learn to accept that.

The government doesn't want you to hire just anybody you want, and allows equality in your decision making of who should be hired, because the colour of your skin, your gender or your sexual preferences don't affect how you do your job unless you make them do so. I don't think it would be fair to allow the majority to have the choice to not allow the minority to work, eat and live their lives. Doing that would only cause more of what you see in the ghetto. You say that they should stop living that way so they won't be viewed as bad but how can they do that if you think they also shouldn't be allowed to work? It wouldn't exactly be easy to get a job if the majority of people just won't hire you for no particular reason.


This isn't the topic at hand so this will be the last thing I say about the word ignorant. We are all ignorant, yes. I was simply telling you to learn more about the subject at hand before you argue the point so strongly. Have you lived the ghetto life? Have you been in a gay pride parade? Have you ever even seen one? If not then don't speak as if you have.

I see where our differences are. You believe in freedom of the person, where anyone should have the right to do what is best for themselves. I believe in freedom of the person to a degree, but I believe in doing what is best for society as a whole. I see this as a less selfish approach.

The rest of your points weren't strong enough for me to feel the need to debunk them.



And? You say that as if racism is automatically a bad thing. Especially given that the definition of "racial discrimination" is deciding something based on race, I'm not against racial profiling, especially in law enforcement. If a 70 year old woman who appears that Protestantism has sprung forth from her womb is getting on a plane, put her on the plane. There is no need to search this woman. The people you need to be searching are considerably younger, probably arabic in their appearance and likely their accents, and almost certainly male. Seriously, when was the last time you heard about a white woman from Muncie, Indiana hijacking a plane? The people who are doing this are from places with names like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Afghanistan. Also, notably, these young muslim males are the only sick bastards who are so suicidally driven by their cause that they don't intend to survive. The rest of hijackers simply divert the plane to alternate locations and make demands on the tarmac (While SWAT teams with Heckler & Koch MP5's make sure that these folk never hijack again). That alone shows that there are grounds for at least some degree of racism in a practical application of at least who they choose to check the most. Searching an equal number of hispanic, white, and east-asian women to balance out the statistics accomplishes nothing.



Who are you to say whether a person has a right to an opinion? He has every bit as much of a right as you have to say that all racists are wrong and bad. This has nothing at all to do with an isolated incident. This usually is a result of a broad demographic of those people, and indeed most or nearly all of those encountered with a particular trait. I run into the same thing with my car. I drive an ex-police white Crown Victoria Police Interceptor with a big black Go Rhino pushbar on the front and a spotlight in my door post. When I cruise down the highway, it scares the living crap out of some folks simply because they believe I am a law enforcement officer. Similarly, if you spend the majority of your young life surrounded by people of a particular race who either all or almost all (as is the case also with my car, since not every Crown Vic configured like mine is police but the majority are) reprehensible individuals, there will come a certain point where you are faced with the decision. Do I avoid this race and want nothing to do with it, or am I simply an idiot who doesn't learn from my mistakes? Imagine if you will, if a person stopped noticing Crown Vics like mine. He's cruising at the speed of traffic, which happens to be higher than the speed limit. However, a cop, not me, cruises up behind him. He is an idiot if he doesn't act with his experiences, but he is discriminating against that particular model of car in the process. Even if it turns out to be me. Isn't he better off playing it safe? Similarly, if a person grows up surrounded by the ghetto/gangsta culture, no wonder they don't give black people the benefit of the doubt anymore.



Completely irrelevant liberal spin. Hitler was free to do what he liked in his own country. I don't support the holocaust, but I also don't support the treaties under which Germany was heavily bound after World War I. Despite your attempt to try to equate World War II with racism, World War II was about Hitler trying to first raise Germany up into a powerful beast of a country, and then to conquer the world, regardless of his personal motivation. Like any large-scale war, the internal politics of a nation had little or no influence over the events of the war itself except in regards to how it affected their military and intelligence strength. For example, Germany had excellent technological programs, as did the US. Germans had better submarines, and we had atomic bombs and superior landing craft. German tanks are among the finest of the war in many opinions, and deployed the first paratroopers in combat. Similarly, we also used paratroopers as well as having the Jeep, which was similar in usage to but far superior in practice, the Kübelwagen. Similar comaprison would be the Generals. We had good admirals, the greatest of whom were serving in the pacific, while our adversaries had Grand Admiral Karl Dönitz whose plans for submarine warfare would have crushed the allied supply lines in the Atlantic if the German materiel command would have listened to him from the get-go. Also significant is the Patton-Rommel clash. Rommel was never a member of the Nazi party, and was in the end murdered by them. So claiming that I support Hitler simply because I don't see it as specifically incorrect for a person to be a racist is entirely out of line and not at all an accurate representation of what I presented. A person's right to hate does not give them carte blanche to hunt down and (sometimes systematically) kill. If that happens, as happened in 9/11, I damned sure support the right of the CIC (or law enforcement, in the case of individual acts like lynchings) to hunt down and rid us of these people, in a manner suitable to the crime (which is of course case by case).



In this, you're absolutely right. However, I am a culturist. I have no tolerance, respect, or interest in these folks. I do disagree with the latter half of your "truth" though. The ghetto is not restricted to blacks (who are not african-american. They have never been to africa. Every black person I have met who actually has come here from africa has had nothing to do with these people's culture. To call these people "african americans" is to impugn the actual African-Americans who immigrate, all of whom that I have met being hardworking, educated (or in the process of educating) folks.

Ghetto culture is not a result of affordability. It's a result of people doggedly holding the cards they were dealt, refusing to realize that in the poker game of life you can actually take a few cards and improve your situation. These defeatists have nothing of the values I treasure in hardworking americans about them. The ones that do are either not part of the culture even if they live there, or work their way out of the place. Or they at least join the military, which gets them the hell out, and pays for an education.



The racist media? you mean like the young upstart negroes who happen to be in control of labels like Death Row Records, publishing about being gangstas and slapping hoes? or do you mean fine americans like Bill Cosby and his eponymous Show, in which he and a family (who just happen to be black) engage in situation comedy? Or perhaps Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell, who show that strong black leaders can and will rise if such a person is so inclined to work hard enough for it? Or Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, who keep the Angry Black Men stereotype alive. There's so many influences to choose from. And which one of these thrives the most amoung young people, both black and white? My money would be on the Gangsta Rap, despite the fact that there are also a number of positive black role models out there.



I grew up near San Francisco. I have several queer friends. I have yet to see one of them say anything positive about these events, and even a couple of them who tell me that pride parades these days set them back by decades in terms of PR. However, there are a large number of queers in that region who don't see it this way, and actually go out of their way to flaunt it in ways that straight conservatives tend to find extremely offensive and disturbing. Gaia is a family site so I will not go into details, but it's some sick s**t. Especially if you happen to roam into the wrong part of San Francisco at night.



Your lack of faith is something that I cannot endorse in any way because my beliefs entail I be honest, and I find your views on this subject to be completely unacceptable. I will speak my truths as plainly as any other truth I know of. This is non-negotiable, since I do not turn my faith on and off like you people would seem to prefer.



Who are you to say it's more fair to force any individual employer to hire somebody he doesn't desire to hire than it is to allow him to make his own decisions for his own business? Your logic is disturbing to any free-market capitalist. I've seen the internals of hiring decisions before in past jobs, and even had somewhat of a say (and been overruled, naturally), and we've been consistently screwed by getting forced to hire people that were less suited to the job (but happened to have a convenient gender or race) than a superior candidate whose only crime was being born a white male. Your theory assumes that all candidates perform equally, which is patently untrue.



People in the ghetto are there because they're lazy, ignorant, drawn into crime and thus don't think they need real day jobs, or because they for some reason refuse to leave the place they grew up and raise themselves above that kind of crap. If they're not the best candidate for the job they shouldn't get the job, and if the hiring manager simply dislikes him they're better off not working for the guy. I've seen the situation before, and it basically means that the worker ends up being dead weight to the company either because the worker knows he's unfireable for demographic reasons, or the worker gets loaded with crap-work till he quits. Forcing bad work relationships does nothing to help either person or the business.



It became the topic at hand when you called me ignorant. I've seen enough of the ghetto culture and had friends whose own families were ones that had "risen above" it. They told me all I needed to know. I don't have to lower myself to that level to know that the people there need to get themselves out of it if they want to make anything of their lives. Their father actually has 22 children...until he got out of the ghetto, every one of them ran off and joined a gang before the age of 16 and he never saw them again. Once he moved out his eldest remaining sons are hardworking men and respect the hard work of their father did to better the situation for his family. This tells me plenty. I've seen a gay pride parade, but as I oppose queerness and gay pride, I would never march in one. Everyone who has lived in that region has at least seen one, or part of one. So don't treat me like I don't know what I'm talking about, I speak from the experience of growing up in one of the most gay-activist parts of the nation.



Selfish or not, helping out freeloaders and dead weight is not going to better society. I agree with Benjamin Franklin on this:

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it."
--Benjamin Franklin

In other words, I'm for helping the poor, but handing them things that belong to others (including job openings, which belong to nobody but the business and the business's owner(s), and thus they can do with them as they please) will not help them in the long run. What happened to American entrepreneurship? I've seen a self-employed Mexican make an honest, decent living and support his family with nothing but a lawnmower, a weed whacker, and a pickup truck. If an immigrant speaking broken english can handle this, surely a native of this land can do it. You pretend as if the only way to make a living is to work for somebody else, which is a lie. You also suppose that it's helpful to the public to employ everybody. It's not...some people are too stupid, lazy, or invalid to work in most jobs, and even the jobs they can do they're not the best suited for in many cases.

The missing portion you neglect is that I believe in the goodness of human charity. Family, nonprofit, religious, &c. assistance is usually there for the specific purpose of helping people out in time of need. Especially the first one listed: family. I'm not saying freeload, I'm simply saying that there's enough good people out there who are willing to help a person who genuinely wants help. The problem lies in the number of people who simply want to be handed it without putting in any effort themselves. And if you honestly believe there's enough raving racists out there to knock the entire minority population into deep poverty (and if you don't believe that that would result in a rise in minority entrepreneurship, which we've seen a good sized boom in during the Bush administration), then I don't believe you understand how economics or supply and demand work.

no, it's racism. Some jerk back awhile ago. kinda scared me off of guys, especially black ones.