Welcome to Gaia! ::

based on previous statements, it would seem that there are a couple of categories of skill particles..


Category 1: Polarity vs. Non Polarity

polarity particles
polarity particles obey polarity rules.
Fire Vs. Ice
Good Vs. Evil
Hate Vs. Love
Life Vs. Death
Light Vs. Darkness

a polarity skill cannot contain any elements which are of opposite polarity, thus fire spells cannot contain ice. This is a general rule, but stranger things have happened.
a person who learns one polarity skill will find it increasingly more difficult to increase in opposite polarity skills. Beginning with the number "100"
subtract your skill in the polarity skill from 100.
This number represents the highest "complete" level of function or the "percentage" of efficiency for the opposite polarity.
Thus if you have Fire level 1, Ice cannot rise higher than level 99. You can switch "polarity" and retain skills (good/evil) through certain other rules mentioned earlier. The key to understand is that if you increase your opposite polarity beyond the previous, it becomes your new "side"

non polarity particles.
many skills, as well as all Attributes, are effectively "free" of polarity, or cover subjects so much higher than normal polarity that they do not interfere with each other or polarity skills.

Random Skill Bits:

skill is Related to an Attribute

skill is solo, autonomous of an attribute

skill is a sub attribute based upon a higher attribute

skill is a solo, but sub attribute


What defines the difference between skills and Attributes?
attributes are values all characters have, at least for that dimension. The fewer attributes a being has on the standard list of atributes for that dimension, the more removed from reality (and game balance) they become.

A skill is a virtue which can be at zero without the character being in a state of non existence. The character can hypothetically function with zero attributes.

a sub attribute is a value which functions identically to an Attribute - that is to say, it is a near permanent virtue of the character, and serves a purpose in most paradigms. "level" of a character class in other games could be seen this way, as well as "social status".
A character does not normally "learn" a sub attribute, although its possible.

Attributes like "Authority" in the Ghost world, "Imagination" and so forth, are different reflections or even higher reflections of the character. As a character progresses, ideally, they may discover a variety of additional "attributes" which otherwise they didn't know existed.

Looking at the various virtues on the Tree of Life (Qabalah) it becomes obvious that such virtues can exist, but generally shouldn't be modified until extreme levels.

Stats such as
Karma
Machismo/Seme
Enlightement
Transcendence
Luck
Destiny
Fate
Lifespan
Time of Death

and so forth, are generally reserved for a deeper level of play, and would horribly bog down Newbies like you wouldn't believe.

well, lemme think...

according to the Hindus, there are versions of Elements on all planes, but they are not identical in nature, they are identical in difference to each other


according to the mormons, spiritual matter is like matter, but made of a finer substance, the only ultimate realities being God and Intelligence


According to the Freemasons/Hermetics, in the Kybalion, it speaks of frequency/vibration, and claims godlike beings are on an ever increasing scale of frequency and vibration

According to my own research on Aether physics, the concept of cold is a transition from a lower frequency, to a higher frequency, and thus a lower kinetic energy level.

meanwhile, thermal activity, is the transition from a high frequency, to a low frequency.

Thus, in general, acceleration/high velocity is almost synonymous with Temperature.

A liquid is the state of an object in which the electromagnetic fields of 2/8/8/8/8/8/etc. are not in proper bondage with each other, either in stable molecules, or in stable atoms. thus, the reason mercury is a liquid is because its electrical total is one of those whole numbers, or very close.

as a natural element loses electrons, it wants to "suck in more" thus it becomes an acid. On the opposite end, if it gains too many electrons, it becomes a "base" Acids and bases are a bit more complex than this, but not by much.

"earth" or solids, is the result of chemically aligned fields, i.e., a big erector set or legos where the "slots" are aligned properly.

"fire" or "plasma" begins inside any earth/air/water where the frequency of the electron reduces sufficiently to decompress its volume.

If the volume of an electron and its freuqency are decreased too much (from e20 to e19) they turn into gamma radiation.

Radiation isn't a great mystery as scientists would have you believe. A lit match stack is emitting radiation on all levels.

air occurs when unlike a liquid there is a very strong opposition charge admist an object which has a very high electrical radius. Its sort of like reverse plasma. Based upon the principle of cold, when you "freeze" air, it becomes a liquid, then solid. Superfluids are a myth, and are actually crystalized atoms. Because they are atoms, they have the apearance of a liquid, but the properties of sand.
If you do not freeze the air, its antipolar electrical charge is so much like a Natural "base" that it opposes everything. even itself.

so basically...
water = stuff which is neutral
air = stuff which is opposed/pride
fire = stuff which is expanding
ice = stuff which is compressing
earth = stuff which is joined/love
acid = stuff which is lacking/yin
base = stuff which is abundant/yang

Concerning Stuff
acid can be seen as hunger/attraction or addiction (crackhead)

but im not exactly sure how to place base.

following the paradigm of the Bhagavad Gita, you have attachments;
and acids/bases are things which represent imbalance. Base would be the state of having acquired too much.
Like the "fat american pig" theory of Moslims and Euros. Another example would be opulance, excess, hording wealth, Miserly, Scrooge, and to some points, overprotecting, overbearing (like my essays), Hennish, and in some points, results of Obsessive/compulsive disorders, such as packrats, or 400 years of food storage.


--- you know its funny, originally I was just going to go through the elemental breakdown of the Yetzirah, its got a whole lsit of polarities and maps of how they mingle. But this was more fun to write 3nodding

chevron 6 loading...

while pondering over how to assemble skills, I got this vison of techniques having certain contributing elements.

this i call the meta meta meta builder, or "Noire Metabuilder^3"

it works something like this:

there are perhaps 22 contributing diamonds the size of a pin head lined up atop the skill bracket representing which elements contributed to it.

Now, when all these elements are lined up against each other, they generate 1x2x3..etc. possibilities, which is like 1e21 (1 sextillion) variations.

it doesn't have to be this many, but I'm going to start writing down elements until absolutely every skill EFFECT in the known universe is created.

first principle
knowedge is knoweldge: you don't need to learn the same thing twice.

fire + ball = fireball.
fire + wall = fire wall.
Ice + ball = iceball
Ice + wall = ice wall.

particles, neh?

sword skill:

1: wields a weapon
in form of question:
"does this skill wield a weapon?"

2: improves chances to hit
"Does this skill improve accuracy?"

ninja presumption: you might not automatically hit with magic..

3: improves damage
"Does this skill increase damage yield?"

ninja which stat is it based upon?

4: based upon Grace (Agi)
"Is the skill based upon Grace?"

5: based upon Understanding (Int)
"Is the skill based upon Understanding?"

6: based upon Intuition or Instinct (Wil)
"Is the skill based upon Intuition or Instinct?"

ninja by their very nature, skills which wield tools cannot be based on leadership, beauty, stamina, or strength.


more to come later...

Excellent ^_^

First division:
Self/others: this works on an if then statement. I got this from the psionicists powers edit ability in the will and the way. Watch closely

Edit allows you to change ONE characteristic by +100% or -50%. (half or double) at a (blah blah -8 saving throw x 10 +80 days of meditation).
One addition or attribute can be added or removed per edit. (the sentence structure can be edited in a single, digital way).
you may also change a target from range of self, to range of touch, and a range of touch to a range of 10 yards.

Hokay. so. We have

Digital:
Effects Self; Efects others

Trinary: target self, Target other, target both

now here is my favorite example of a power to edit: Death Field.
Area effect: Radius 20 ft or so. Range self. Target both self and others.
You take X amount of damage (your choice up to maximum hit points obviosuly, but not directly stated).
Everyone in the radius saves vs. breath weapon/death magic/whatever.
if they fail, they take half the damage you took, like a sort of "fireball".
PSP Cost: 40.

Now watch the magic.

Edit 1: range: touch (target for original hit point damage is now the person touched; note, you didnt get a saving throw vs. the power, so niether do they).
Edit 2: damage changed from 50% of hit points to 100% (50+100%= 100)
Edit 3: range of touch changed to range of 10 yards
Edit 4: range of 10 yards doubled to range of 20 yards (60 ft)
Edit 5: range doubled again to 40 yards
Edit 6: saving throw for other victims penalized by -4 (or whatever).
Edit 7: PSP cost reduced 50% from 40 to 20.
edit 8: PSP cost reduced 50% from 20 to 10.
Edit 9: PSP cost reduced from 10 to 5.

Edit 10+ range, and later radius increased exponentially in a trade off.
Edit 30+: range is now 320,000 yards (over 300 km, about 200 miles)
while Radius is about 20,000 ft (about 4 miles).

Each edit takes 80+ days, so you are looking at around 720 days for the first "uber doom" by edit 9... or 2 years..
and 6 years for the power to be able to wipe out cities while in another state for 5 psps per attack.

However.. in the same game, there is an ethereal plane, where time is distorted by a factor of 10. Translation: Uber doom in 72 days, City destroyer in 240 days, in stead of 2400 days. So you go to the ethereal, and meditate there, and on your return... yeah. Game over.

The point of illustrating this rules rape was to show how you can tear a power to peices and re assemble it, bt by bit.

While grocery shopping yesterday, the opportunity presented itself during long bus rides of a sunday schedule, to read up on the japanese history of warfare, particularly, a focus on the martial arts, and pre Meiji era events.

In this book, it pointed out how the martial arts and their specializations were created. I found this to be dramatically useful. So useful infact, that I will simply quote it in the next post, so you an judge for yourself, if we are on to something big ^_^

Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:51 pm
quote="Michael Noire"post atempt 3 recopied from memory..

=18color=indigoMultiple Attacks/color
this post was rather lengthy, but my post was erased (twice) so I'm going to try to cover the points.

1. Only two games covered Multiple attacks with any measure of efficiency. Master Book, to a lesser degree, and Cyberpunk, almost flawlessly. Certain fighting video games like Soul calibur and Street Fighter did ok in this area.

2. Multiple attack game effects are identical to multiple action game effects. For every action a character has, its as if they are, at least for that time period, playing another character.

3. Although many games have been destroyed by multiple attack rules, we would be fools in assuming they did not exist in History (like Lu Bu vs. the three generals) and in Anime (like Fist of the North Star).


color=darkredbcommon problems/b/color

bDamage bonus/b : In some games, multiple attacks, or autofire weapons (rifts, white wolf, d20) give you more of a "damage bonus" that some how gets applied either to the magic number of bullets that hit, or the total damage done, which is rarely if ever accurate. In WW for instance, full auto allows a submachine gun to yield as much as a small thermonuclear weapon.
btotal damage/b : in many games, you have a total number of hit points or its equivelent, and lots of little attacks add up to more effect than is physically possible. For instance, giving Bahamut 200 hit points and then hiting him 20 times with a large rock kills him. 9d6 handgun damage used in a full auto clip 10times should not be as devastating as a 26d6 Ultra Violet Plasma beam, but with this system, it some how does more than three times as much.
bno common sense/b : If you are swinging at someone fast enough to hit, pull back, and hit again, your attacks must be really fast. that takes lots of energy to produce, and increasing your speed will increase kinetic damage vs. most things.
b+ Attack/–dodge /b : several games are set up so your attack number increases but it has no impact on your defense as if you cannot set an attack to "defend/parry".
bfailed SP Balance/b : SP, stopping power, or "damage reduction", armor, etc. While an excellent balance for multiple attacks (sicne their total damage becomes much lower with just a little bit of armor each attack) many games make it far too easy, and cheap to simply ignore SP/Armor entirely, and then apply that to multiple attacks.
bDefinition Overkill/b : we try to justify multiple attacks by ideas like "1 man army" in film and books. When we imagine an army, we typically think of 100 men, (Centurion), or thousands (Legion). . We then assign in our minds a number of attacks equal to the number of people we imagine the person killing.
This is somewhat misleading however. Typically you cannot fit more than 6 people around someone, and a "dog pile" can only be so high before you crush your own people.
So realistically, if you can make 6 successful attacks each "round", you can fight any number of people. Of course, those people are going to be attacking as well, which means you also need 6 more actions to "dodge" them. That totals 12. Now assuming that a number of "equal badasses" are facing you, they each having a max of 6 attacks on you requires 6 dodges, with a total of 36. I recommend "36 actions maximum" with "6 attacks" maximum. In this way, if a godlike character were to be facing 6 other godlike characters, his/her actions, all 36, if devoted to nothing but defense, would counter all of them. In this way, maxed out total badasses would never want to fight, because something other than pure volume of attacks would be necessary.

Another option is "one on many" attack, and "many on one" defense. Suggest this be blended with the above 36 cap, with a max of "x6" multiplier, so that it still has zero effect on the 7 warring baddasses, but allows a person to simulate "36" attacks. and 216 "dodges".

Many on one (defense) could be excellent mechanics for "arrow deflection" like in Jet Li's "Hero", or Chow Yun Fat's "Couching Tiger Hidden Dragon".

3 Theories of Multi-Attack
list
*Circular saw; (a circular saw chips away at very hard substances eating away at them, whether meat, wood, ice, or metal) very "tao", penalty = you get vertigo (dizzy and sick). Exposes back 50% of time. Common among Dancers, Ice Skaters, and Dervishes
*Jack hammer; (attack, pull back, attack, pull back, etc.) Common with Fencers and Many hard styles such as Karate and Boxing. Also used with wrecking balls and "giant clubs". Common Mecha melee/HTH style. Wastes energy very quickly by pulling back, also grow less and less accurate as speed increases. Also rarely able to "follow through" with the blow yielding less damage, by stopping suddenly to pull back.
*Machine gun (virtually endless ammo/attacks, overheats quickly). A bit different from getting tired like the jack hammer, the machinegun effect is only common among people who black out and fight like wild animals (good for the berserker class) Persistent use for a person will cause them to pass out from stress/strain. Weapons will overheat, and sometimes explode. Ammo tends to run out too for weapons.
/list/quote

quote="Michael Noire"=18Random BST Comments

color=oliveSection One: pendant polarity
Section Two: Multi Task Equation/color


bpendant of polarity/b
ithis may seem like an item suggestion at first, but look closely for the hidden message.../i

suppose you had your angelic pendant around your neck. It might give you a number of bonuses, like the rings from Growlanser. Such as Will bonuses or protection from Dark magic, and so on.
Meanwhile, the pendant has the power if actually USED like an item (final fantasy scenario; you can use items as well as wear them or attack with them) it would summon an angel. Typically a Spirit Mobile, perhaps in the level 20-60 bracket, like a Summoned Monster. Perhaps it would have an unseen power bar that charged back up after doing this,
and while the bar was low, its standard bonuses would be lower, if not zero. (% multiplier to bonuses, round down, or "stack" bonuses
so that
"Will = 11%+; protection = 25%+; temeprance = 45%+, and Healing magic bonus = 85%+)
For this reason, you might not want to use the sommoning feature of the item frequently, not to mention that it would have to be fully recharged to activate again.

Furthermore, if your Race type FLAG was Angel, it would give you double the bonuses (example, instead of a +3, you get a +6); note that the Race flag doesn't necessarily have to be "Angel" it could be

Race>>FLAG="Holy" or
Race>>FLAG="Light" or
Race>>FLAG="Truth"
or a combination of the three.
The reason the bonuses would be justified with a character with such race flags, is polarity. These same race flags would act as penalties to
"darkness/Deception/Unholy-Evil"
flagged powers. Perhaps the Angelic Mobiles and Races would be completely banned from acquiring such polarity options?

Also thinking, that if a bcharacter/b with the opposite polarity to the Angelic pendant (such as "unholy") places the item on their person, the bonuses would be penalties, and they might even take "holy damage" every round they wear it. eek

(hopefully you will read between the lines of "angelic pendant=item" and see the real BST suggestion)

-------------------- End Section I-----------------

bMulti Task Equation/b

This was easy enough. You take the person's SPEED attribute, and multiply by a Multi tasking Skill +2.
If a person's speed stat is at least 1, they will have at least a 2% ACTION REGEN.
If their speed stat is zero, such as after being paralyzed, then the person's ACTION REGEN will be zero.

ACTION REGEN is nothing more than an oddly formed Initiative bar that refills itself, like in many video games. I'm not yet certain how this interfaces with True combat initiative, such as the blinding fast draw of Battou-jutsu, which to me, seems best resolved some other way like "action interupt" and who goes first.

The obijective of this listed percentage is, within a single combat turn, of perhaps 45 seconds or 1 minute, or some other "tangible base" is to represent how fast your meter refills.
If you take an action before your meter refills, the action will be "half assed" and reset the meter to zero. (it will probably also cost you some stun points for straining yourself).

When the meter hits max, your actions are "full actions", and when you act again, the meter drops back to zero to begin refilling. (something we know is possible with Flash emulators)

ok: Now, the time frame I'm thinking is 45 seconds, or whatever it is we consider a standard "flood gate" post delay. If this number isn't high enough early on, the refill bar will be too fast at higher levels for a person to reaction.

so lets take a 60 second unit as our base.

0-99 x 0-99 (+2)
= 0-9999
this number represents a percentage per minute (60 seconds), and of course, uses fractions in whatever time unit the computer uses for counting. (our old Multi user systems used fractions of a second, 1/1000, I think it was, so "1000" meant 1 second delay)

Thus, if your average Stat was 10, with good stats being closer to 15-20 at start (they obviously could go up after much play time)
and a starting multi task skill of 0-10, these are the numbers we came up with.

10 stat, 0 skill: represents dead minimum for most characters (but not mobiles)
= 20% per minute refill.
"" stat; 2 skill: 40%
"" 4 skill: 60%
""6 skill: 80%
"" 8 skill: 100%
"" 10 skill: 120%

15 Stat, 0-10 skill; Represents a "good stat" in that area at start, like a test pilot's speed, or a rogue's intelligence
"" 0 skill = 30%
"" 2 skill = 60%
"" 4 skill = 90%
"" 6 skill =120%
"" 8 skill = 150%
"" 10 skill = 180%

And to cut to the chase, a 20 speed (about as high as you can get at start without really screwing up your other stats), with a 10 Skill = 240%, which,
on a 60 second timer, is one new full action every 25 seconds.

iWhy start so slow?/i
you could set the base second unit to "45" seconds or even 30 seconds, which would make it much faster, but when you first start playing this game, you are, like most RPGs, going to want to "adapt" or "grow into it"

The two numbers multiply by each other in order to avoid any one stat or skill doing EVERYTHING.
Therefore, at level 50/50, you have just over 2500% and not 5000% like you might expect.

Two additional considerations:
1: Using Intelligence instead of SPEED for mental actions including most magics and psionics (but probably not Martial Arts psionics or Dance based magic)

2: using intellgience x 101 as the maximum percentage of "controlled" actions you can take, before your actions have to either before forfiet or repeated actions.

This statement makes more sense ifyou break the percentages into whole numbers. example: 2500% = 25 attacks. If your intelligence is only 20, the last 5 attacks have to be the same as simple actions or repeats of the previous actions- you are moving too quickly to comprehend.

A cheaper way of coding this: Your maximum Multi task skill equals your Intelligence. 3nodding /quote

quote="Michael Noire"quote="Aldo"hmm, I find Noire's suggestion a little too big for my mind and a bit too big for gaia, but gaia never fails to surprise me with either stupid or smart moves. It sure sounds nice, but I fear the feebleminded 50% of gaia wont understand it. Allow me to link you up to this: http://thenoob.keenspace.com/d/20050106.html

But he got me thinking anyway about afterlife stuff. What if you are a ghost and you gotta possesse a mobile for like half an hour and then you burst out of its body. It would be the trick to not get killed by a random player.

Though, maybe this is more for a game on a big map. (like ragnarok online) rather than the map system of final fantasy tactics./quote

Subject 1: game map layout
Subject 2: MMORPG lag
Subject 3: Avoid Eye Candy



bGame Map Lay out/b
actually, i think we would benefit more for the Gaia Genre to use final fantasy 3/6 as our blue print, and not final fantasy tactics. I was playing FFT at a friends house and found the controlling system to be very unpleasant and chess like. Also noticed that "Diagonal" didn't exist.

lets see here, we shall assume a 15 inch monitor with 16 bit graphics
16 bit is 65536 colors. I think most modems can handle that, and if they can't, they probably have difficulty with things like...image maps.

now, it occured to me that Growlanser has an almost 360 degree arc of movement. That's not really necessary. HEXES. Hexes seem difficult at first, but what you are really doing is creating a layer like in photoshop.

the hex layer is transparent, and determines "coordinates", it most likely takes up about 20k or less.

next you have your background layer. This is the "scenary" layer, which used to be a bitmap, but I suppose a PNG would work just fine. 3nodding

regardless of the scenary layer, the hex layer code is roughly the same.

A hex layer map is then connected to the image map/animated GIF stuff.

For example, your AVATAR.
Two generic Modes.
1. Moving
2. NOT

gaia avatars currently take up 6kb on average, however, the "mini" versions such as in Gambino, probably take up much less.

Gaia avatars already have two primary modes: Facing left and facing right.

in a hex... south, south west, and south east, are all covered by these two positions, although a third position could be added just for "looks"
An essential direction however, would be "facing north"
ie, what your avatar looks like from behind.

This is not necessary for the MAIN avatars, I'm speaking of the chibi avatars. When you enter combat, there are three possibilities.

1. dragon warrior scenario: you don't even see your avatar, just the monster

2. final fantasy scenario: you see your avatar, facing the left or the right. One side represents Surprise.

3. Ultima Quest of the Avatar scenario: you see all avatars on the battle field, and the graphics for the monsters suck really bad.

In a real time game, you begin with a side scroller, such as Faxanadu, or Metroid. The problem with real time games, is loading time, and lag.

-------------------------End Section 1-------------------------------


bMMORPG LAG/b
Did text based multiuser dungeons experience lag?

The answer is YES, they did, and in answer to the obvious - you would usually die horribly if in combat at the time.

Multi user dungeon Code is tricky, its real time text stream, which is different from Turn based, and different from side scrollers. (we won't even go into VRML xp )

Who uses MUD code?

You might be surprised. You are probably thinking of those text base black and white screens. But that's not always the case.

Everquest and Baldurs gate both use it, as does any game where you have a tiny box at the bottom with text scrolling like mad when you enter combat.

You need to know that this is what kills people more than graphics loading. PK goes insane when you have one of those madly loading scrolls. Most of the time people speed scroll back after they die to see what happened.

The MUD engine is actually a very bad idea for anything except a group of 20-100 people on a Text base server. It should NOT be used for a graphic engine.

People often justify small damage values for their weapons through the thinking of MUDs and Everquest theory. This is a false notion. "22-40 damage" in a Multi user dungeon becomes exponentially bad in short order, because the combat rounds scroll through dozens of combat exchanges in the time it takes an FFT character to make one action.

Their desire is a notorious one. They know something stupid people do not. Watch carefully.

bBubba Level 50 vs. X/b
Round one: Bubba attacks 3 times for 22 damage, X replies with 3 misses
Round two: Bubba recieves spells like "armor" "berserk" "haste" etc., and now does 66 damage 6 times per round, X is parried, blocked, and dodged.
Round 3: the fight is over.

X's damage by Round three: 27
Bubba's damage by round 3: 858

Total REAL LIFE combat time: 2 seconds. Just because you split that 999 damage across several attacks and several rounds, doesn't mean a thing if the whole battle takes 2 seconds. Imagine moving your mouse toward your "block" or "heal potion" button only to have suffered 500 damage in the time it took to reach "mouse over".

These types of MMORPGs are also very suspeptable to macros. irregardless of a programmers ability to build a firewall, you always have control over your computer, so if your computer recieves input, you can set up "autos" or "mini if/then" statements which will "pwn" anyone without them.

Final fantasy 1 combat worked just fine. it was blarringly fast, and even allowed for adventuring parties, even if they were controlled by the same player. You cannot macro your way through a turn based system with a waiting period, without making a macro as complex as the AI code, and it is incredibly difficult to program
"if mobile $n casts 'protection_from_fire' then cast 'ice_wall'" etc. in the middle of combat, if you don't have a text driver to recognize what the mobile is doing...
and if a PVP person runs into you, they will catch on to your macros really fast while you are AFK.


-------------------------End Section 2-------------------------------


bAVOID EYE CANDY/b
eye candy is pretty, 3nodding but eye candy gets old. If you are playing a game for eye candy, you will eventually stop playing the game when your brain desensitizes to the artist. A Perfect example is "summons". How many times do people complain about the long summoning monsters, which while cool the first time or three, becomes a lagging pain in the rear, people skipping it every chance they get. The mass market switched their mode from eye candy to Soft porn. Soft porn draws in a slightly older crowd, and the desentization takes longer, however, it gives a game a bad reputation in the long run, much like the latest "Alexander" movie.

Programmers who focus on eye candy to sell a game are selling themselves short. if a game is nothing but a stolen game engine with new eye candy or soft porn, it will make some money, then go under in a short period of time, unless its a sequal.

Several people were quite angry with Castlevania's iDevil May Cry/i engine. Why would someone who's been playing Castlevania longer than half the programmer's life, want to hear "If you liked Devil May Cry, you'll love Castlevania!"
That's like trying to Sell Coca Cola in a Snapple bottle./quote

quote="Michael Noire"quote="Aldo"quote="Atman"I'm too lazy to read all of the posts but I would suggest adding hook swords to the list of weapons. They are sowrds that hook over at the tip and the blade is on the same side that the hook tips to. They are used in pairs and the hook was designed to move away the enemy weapons and use the blade on the other sword to cut. Not sure how this should be implemented into the battle system, like I said before "lazy". If you want to see what they look like, just go on ebay and type "hook swords" and search those./quote and that for a buddhist neutral

here's a pic: http://www.greyeagletrader.com/files/ew628s.jpg/quote


Atman is a hindu concept, not a buddhist concept, most buddhists are at philosophical war with The concept of Atman, and much like Hitler's idea of Jews, would like to see the concept "magically disapear".

Its ok though, Aldo didn't know he was calling a Christian a Satanist, or an Evolutionist a Creationist. I apologize on his behalf. biggrin


bMeanwhile: power activation/b
whenever the stategy bar system is presented, the idea of a "time table" will also be presented.
The biggest struggle we have been working with is
"multiple actions" vs. "Initiative"

there are points that tell us that they should be related, and others that tell us they should be separate. color=olive(this conversation connects to power/artifact activation, because those should cost"time" not MP, unless the object itself is magically draining)/color

iFor example:/i
suppose you have the following skills:

bIaijutsu Technique/b
purpose: first strike, initiative

bAido/b
purpose: martial art weapon style for drawing, striking, and sheathing quickly. "one hit one kill" initiative

bBattoujutsu/b
purpose: the rapid drawing and striking technique itself, which is opposite to the rapid strike and sheathing of a blade.

bMulti-Action/b
Allows a character to take multiple physical actions, such as attacking

bMulti-Task/b
Allows a character to take or maintain multiple mental actions, such as psionic powers

Note: multi-task may be blended with Multi- action, and multi tasking could represent how many diferent thigs you could do at the same time (juggling, ambidexterity, flourentine/2 sword fencing, weapon& shield, concentrating on several different spell effects or psionic powers at once, tactics on the battle field etc. (spatial distortion)

Meanwhile, Multi-action could represent the distortion of time itself, such as multiple attacks, fast casting, repeated "psionic attacks" quick response rate, reflexes, and so forth.




The problem with Inititiative vs. multi-actions becomes evident very quickly. A Person who has dilated time, would obviously have both a high initiative and multiple actions, however, there is temporal perception, and physical motion, which are two different things.

If you can see a bullet coming at you, can you move out of the way?
Also, some consider initiative not to be actions, but the things inbetween the actions, the "moment of decision" like in a gun fight. In some respects, a power like "danger sense" (spider man) would be initiative based, even if the character's ability to move quickly was not so obvious...

At this point, it becomes a contrast between "timing" and "speed"/quote

quote="Michael Noire"quote="OtakuCyborg2"When you talk about dodging bullets, I am reminded of a suggestion I made a while back.....

Phases during your turn:
bDeclare Reaction Phase/b-select an ability to use in response to an action that is targeting you. *It can only target yourself, or the character targeting you. If it targets yourself it resolves during your Resolution Phase. If it target's another, it resolves during that target's next Resolution Phase.*
bResolution Phase/b-The Action targeting you and your response to that action resolve at this time *(if your action targets yourself)*
bDeclare Action Phase/b-select an ability to use. If it targets another character, it does not resolve until it's target's next Resolution Phase.

Basically, when you use a skill on somebody else it waits until that target's Resolution phase instead of happening immediately.

A lot of people told me that this was too complicated though...../quote

its a fairly good idea, but its buggy in the way it is written. Allow us to delve into a game developed by a couple of friends, about 10 years ago:
iShades of Nightfall/i.

the only important statement at this point in reference to this game, was the Reaction Score.

as stated somewhere before, reaction started at zero and went up from there. As the GM (computer) roll called the Reaction from bottom to top, the lowest would declare actions first, then the next lowest theirs, the next lowest, and so on.
Once the GM (computer) had gone through all the reaction scores and their declarations, then the action sequence would take place. The characters with the highest reaction obviously having "first dibs" on when and where their action was to take place, and if desired "first" then they had it.

For example, if two bums were to charge Mindicira from Both sides, and they had a reaction of 2, if she had a reactin of 3 or higher, she could elect to duck, step back, and let the two thugs strike each other, or even stab both of them with twin vampire daggers as she does so.

there were also special powers called "action interupts" which gave you "auto action" but for a limited number of times per day, usually 3 or less.

color=darkredI propose, that instead, we use something similar to the action interupts in two phases./color

bphase 1:/b special abilities/techniques which in certain situations, (such as having your sword sheathed) can give you a temporary "bonus" to the 1-99, equal to say, "1-33" or even 1-99. It is expected that these techniques will NOT be overall initiative, but set to certain situations.
You could apply stat limiters to the max bonus equal to "stat +1" (i.e., max bonus of 100 exactly) or something that sets your cap to exactly 100, which is 1 point faster that 99 (max)
100+ speed = godlike speed, by the way.

bphase 2:/b "reply" action interupt, this is a "reaction" reaction modifier. You cannot "turn it on" in the normal point of view. If you recall dragon warrior 3, with the "blade armor" - if someone attacked you, they automatically took a bunch of damage. This is the same type of "reaction" I speak of. a "blind reaction" which gets a bonus above and beyond normal initiative modifiers, but you cannot elect to use it as a technique-action. Even if it costs "mana" or whatever, this technique is not part of your Initiative phase.

Again, the main idea is a computer is merely "counting up" from 0 to 100+ and stops when it reaches the last character on the board. You can of course elect to do nothing.
To save people from "logging off in a critical time" the battle scene could be set to "chess" mode or "active battle mode". If set to chess mode, all characters will be aware of that fact, and the computer will wait for the last person on the scene to make their action. If in chess mode, if you specifically log out, you are no longer in the battle, a good "auto log out" would be 24 hours for chess mode.
"active battle mode" could be set to perhaps, 60 seconds from the time the computer transmits a message to you. If you take no action in that time, it skips you and moves on the the next character.

In this way, the groups would have a choice between a very "slow" strategic battle scene, and an active battle that could be resolved in a few minutes or less.

color=darkblueAs far as multi actions, there could be three modes of multi actions./color
bMode 1:/b adds a number to your normal reaction, and you act once during the first number, and your first action actually takes place on the higher number, in order.
Example: 10, 13
you act first on 13, and then on 10, if anything is still alive.
iResults: you have more actions in addition to higher initiative. Example: Temporal acceleration/i

bMode 2:/b subtracts a number from your highest reaction, such as "-3" (minimum zero), thus 10, 9, and the 10 takes place first, followed by the 9, if anything remains.
iResults: you have not changed your initiative, but you are able to "re-act" quickly with weaker, more obvious secondary actions, like a "fient"/i

bMode 3:/b the multi actions occur on the same phase of initiative. Examples include using two weapons, having a split personality psychic, or a limited duration (for you) of time stop. This would be akin to "acting between moments" such as in iStar Trek Insurrection/i
iResults: multiple actions with no initiative modifier, but no multi action penalty./i/quote

quote="Michael Noire"any time an original idea, or an adaption to an existing idea is presented, when niether have yet to be experienced by the observer, confusion is bound to set in.

Hmnn.. bAttempt at simplification/b

i
Today kids, we are going to explain the story of three people on the battle field. color=blueMolly the Magician/color, color=redFred the Fighter/color, and color=orangeGuss the Giant/color.

In this scene, Molly and Fred are walking through the Forest, looking to kill something for experience points and gold pieces. Along the way, they run into color=orangeGuss the Giant/color. Molly and Fred decide to gank the giant for lots of experience points, since big monsters are worth lots of XP and Bipedal Mobiles tend to carry lots of TREASURE.

The fighter clicks "ATTACK". And Molly has her "ASSIST FRED IN BATTLE" turned on. That means whenever Fred Attacks something, Molly is part of the Group and Will get Experience Points and probably cast spells if she has any MAGIC POINTS left.

Round 1.
Step 1: 8- bit Cheesy Midi- battle music begins playing.
Step 2: The Computer checks Molly, Fred, and of course, Guss the Giant's Reaction Score. Molly has a 7, Fred has a 10, Guss has a 3.
Step 3: The computer arranges the reaction scores in order from lowest to highest.
First: Guss, with a 3
Second: color=blueMolly/color, with a 7
Third: color=redFred/color, with a 10

Step 4: The computer then signals color=orangeGuss the Giant/color, which is a NON PLAYER CHARACTER (NPC), and runs the "MOBILE AI"
Which, is very simple.
For giants, "attack scrawniest victim" means the computer checks for the lowest strength, (in this case, color=blueMolly/color), and Attacks them first.

Step 5: color=orangeGuss the Giant/color, makes the first Declaration: Attack Molly With "Enormous Club of Instant Death"

Step 6: Molly (with a 7), is the Next to declare her action. Seeing she is going to be clobbered by a big club, she elects to move back behind color=redFred the Fighter/color, then cast a protection sphere (casting time 3) which will go off on 4.

Step 7: Fred the fighter, declares Last, with his 10 Reaction. He can already tell that the Giant is going to end oup crushing him, because he's inbetween the giant and the Magician. Fred considers his options.

1. block giant club of doom = broken sword stressed
2. parry giant club = strength vs. strength stressed
3. dodge giant club = 1 dead Molly sweatdrop
4. Attack giant normally = tiny damage to big hit points, while giant does big damage to Fred's tiny hit points xp
5. Use tiny iniative advatange to aim critical hit, assuming giant is slow and their crappy dodge will not save them from a "called shot"
= mrgreen

Fred decided to go with the last option, and waits (aim bonus) until the 4th point of action to strike a killing blow to the giant.

Step 8. The Real Combat happens.
1. Fred Stands there doing Nothing,
2. Molly Moves Behind Fred
3. Fred Lands a vital blow to the Giant. The giant suffers normal damage, but is also bleeding to death for an additional 10 hp per round.
4. Molly the Magician Casts a Level 3 Protection Sphere over them both, which will reduce the damage they take for 3 rounds.
4. Guss the Giant Strikes Fred For Heavy damage, but the Protection Sphere, combined with his generic HEAVY FIGHTER ARMOR, reduces the damage to almost zero.

bRound 2.../b
/i

I hope that helped sweatdrop /quote

quote="Michael Noire"quote="Mikle"Fred's critical hit waitness is similar to the FFT Archer ability Charge.

What exactly does this waiting do?

In the case of Charge, it's a number added based on the number of turns you wait, which will of course change your reaction time for the next round. Although of course, in a really iniciative system, there are no rounds, and people can act twice before someone else./quote

i have no idea what the "waitness" does, but it follows the simple logic problem

:the longer you spend aiming/monitoring your opponent, the easier it is to hit them, and the easier it is to hit specific locations.

Case in Point: Duck Hunt.

Many powerful warriors do nothing in the first moments of battle, and it disturbs the greenhorns quite frequently. In reality, if the Veterans perceive a threat, they will size up the opponent(s), looking for weak points before going into battle.

A lot of this "hesitation" vs. "spontanaety" (sp?) decides who wins and loses in a Fencing Match.

As Mikle suggested, it may be possible to have a never ending initiative system without rounds, however, I am uncertain exactly how you would want to adapt the system presented to follow that method of thinking, especially since we've specifically requested a "turn based" combat system to compensate for crappy modems and Lag.

bAs to the bonuses?/b
we would first need an existing melee combat system established before the exact bonuses could be determined. The system (i) presented in the past months assumes a sort of "final fantasy 3" mechanic, with some Dragon Warrior, Growlanser, and FF Tactics mixes taking place.

bIt assumes 9999 is a good max value for the following units./b
Mana
Hit points
damage
% regeneration of mana or hit points per (@minute)
% regeneration of Initiative bar, if such a thing would exist per (@minute)
absolute maximum protection from a single magical attack (DMG=0)
absolute max protect from a single physical attack (DMG=0)
resolve/sanity stat (willpower version of hit points)
Creativity pool (artist/inventor version of mana)

bIt assumes 99 is a good max for value for these other unit/b
"bleeding" damage per round
"duration" for any non permanent effect (like 99 rounds)
percentage chance of a reflexive "dodge" or "teleportation evasion"
skill levels (anything from martial arts to magic, from cooking to crafting)
Attributes (Strength, Agility, Speed, Intellect, Will, Stamina, etc.)
Sub attributes (Noteriety, Status, Axiom, Creativity, Honor, etc.)
Character level (for XP purposes of others only)
Monster level (for XP purposes only)
Polarity (good, evil, light, dark, order, chaos, fire, water, truth, delusion)

this is a quick summery, but you get the idea. Somewhere, burried in Lu Bu dojo, is a simple "attack sequence" written about 2 or 3 months ago. I will search for it. - it deals with "random number/attack/miss" stuff./quote

quote="Mikle"well, you simply have turns, but not rounds.

It's really simple actually.

Say X is your speed.
Now your "real" speed factor, since speed makes you act faster, ergo in less time, is 1 (or 1000 or whatever) / X, which would make it so that higher speeds generate smaller numbers biggrin

Now what? you use the delay system of Gunbound, which is basically, you add your speed each round.

Iniciative of course, could determin who starts the battle (it's random in Gunbound)

Say Molly has speed 13 (after dividing), Fred has 15, and Guss 17.

Using your own values, Guss Starts at instance 3
At instance 7, Molly takes action, and at instance 10, Fred does.
Guss would be next on your system, but check this out, you add the speed to their scores, so "round 2" scores would be 20 for Molly, 20 for Guss and 25 for Fred. (Molly is faster, so she acts first even though she has the same instance as Guss).
On "Round 3" the scores change again, adding their speed.

3 - Guss Takes actions
7 - Molly
10 - Fred
20 - Molly
20 - Guss
25 - Fred
33 - Molly
37 - Guss
40 - Fred
46 - Molly
54 - Guss
55 - Fred
59 - Molly
70 - Fred
71 - Guss

So you see, after a couple of "Rounds" Fred starts to act before Guss, even though he started battle afterwards, just like Molly acted before Guss on the second round. In a couple more "rounds" Molly will act twice in a row, because she quite faster than Fred (these values should be really close together, like 12 is slow and 14 is fast, so that this happens less).

So as you can see, there are no rounds, but there are turns, which is what we want due to lag and modems./quote

quote="Michael Noire"quote="OtakuCyborg2"I still say AP should be gained each and every time you successfully use an attack./quote

hmnn.. makes some sense... although, it seems to me that doing this would result in people attacking trees like they used to in Ultimate Online.
Perhaps instead of just going to the skills, routine use would go to metaphysical XP or XP, or to your individual related stats:

Swing a heavy sword a lot = sword weight x swings Vs. current Strength x101. When total = Strength x 101 add +1 strength.
(20 strength would be about 2020 required AP, to get to 21,
swinging sword once/1 attack = 1, typical sword weight is 3 kg or less; following my phi scale, thats a weight of 4
1,1,2,3,5 (1+0 = 1, 1 +1 = 2, 1+2 = 3, 2+3 = 5... etc.). So if you made a total of 505 attacks, your strength would increase by 1. You could set it so a "botch" if such exist, or "fumble" "throws out your arm" and subtracts twice the weight in points (4x2= cool and so on. Without making it too complex.


--------------------- Next Subject of Improvement --------------------------

it seems, that without Kata, or a Form, or a sparing partner, without "inspiration" from above (good application fro a meditation skill) or a very high perception of the true nature of things as they are (Morihei Ueshiba, founder of Aikido)

i would very much like to see how Perception can be used to influence the battle system. Right now, I'm working on how to integrate a character who cannot be predicted/has no destiny, in the battle system.

following that reverse initiative method,

1. you could have people who can't predict others, but can't predict themselves either. When their number pops up on initiative, its as if
???? comes up in the text box, but the person doesn't get to see the "preview" either. So they cannot plan to react against those slower than themselves, and they do not know how screwed they are for those faster.

2. you have a person who cannot be predicted, but you know about how fast they are, so their action shows up as a ???? and then moves on the the fastest.

3. you have people who can predict everything, but their own action is still slow, so it runs through all the actions twice for them. The first time, it runs through with them as a ???? for others, as in #2... however, it then runs through that action sequence again, *press continue" to skip to next, or it reads out at normal speed, (no special effects graphics of course) til it gets to you, then stops, where you insert your action. Others do not get to see this sequence, unless they have the same "special board"

take Michael Noire (a character) for instance: his ability rests in truth, "the truth shall set you free" and so forth. He is able to perceive the attachments, addictions, and habits of others, which allows him to easily predict their actions.

His theory is "the more in bondage you are, the more predictable your choices". A Soldier in bootcamp is more predictable than a citizen, a prisoner in lockdown - more predictable than a soldier, a heroine addict is more predictable than a prisoner, and, and a bondage slave is quite predictable, and "programmed" like a DVR.

For example, we all know the Paladin is going to jump infront of the innocent female cleric in an act of Gallantry, just like the same man would open the door for her in a restaurant or palace.

Fighting styles are the same way.

Meanwhile, the Concept of Truth is to "set you free" - to have no attachments, to favor no single decision more than another, until it comes time to make it. A Person without attachments is therefore, unpredictable, more accurately, a person with Zero chains, holding them down, has complete control over their Will, as A Free agent, Free Will, and may even make choices otherwise impossible.

bso from the bottom to the top you have:/b
Fate - that which is guaranteed. - example: slave, robot, golem, zombie, Faustian Pact, Lawyers, Death, Taxes, Siames Twins (sp?)
Destiny- that which is most likely to happen - example - Alchohalic, Romeo & Juliet, Sportsfan, Soccer mom, Soldier, Paladin, Credit Card Loans, Pyromania, Idenetical Twins, Farmer
Thin Freedom - Corporate Family, Student, a Pair of Lovers, Close siblings
Moderate Freedom - Farmer's Daughter, Blue Collar Worker, College Graduate, Mideval Knight, 1920s Safari member, Tibetan Monk
Severe Freedom - Nomad, Sufi Bedouin, Hawaiian Surfer 1970s, Aboriginal Tribe, Woodstock Hippies, Typical Psionicist
Total Freedom - Ascetics, Man on the Mountain, Isaiah/Buddha/Jesus types, those Who Ascend/quote

last months interview with Jakabo seems to indicate that the battle system is currently little more than scribble notes on a white board, and it has to some how interface with townships.

Something completely unaddressed was the principle of quests.