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 Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:10 pm
His childhood was fine. Some kids just turn out bad and it has nothing to do with the parents.
My first choice is Marianopolis, my second is Dawson and my third is Vanier. Fourth is Abbott, I suppose, but if I don't get into Marianopolis I'll get into Dawson.
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:48 pm
I disagree.
The parents aren't free of responsibility. They didn't mitigate his decision, but they did allow an environment that fostered the capacity. Contrary to what most teenagers think, nosey parenting isn't necessarily a bad thing. Especially when there are signs. When a youth is too inebriated with childhood delusions to make rational decisions, it's the job of a parent to guide them.
Albeit not an easy job.
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:48 am
Deimos. Take two sets of parents and their kids. Have the parents be the exact same with the kids. Exact same. The kids are likely to be different, and one will easily be worse than the other. The parents aren't free of responsibility, no, but believe me when I tell you this, I have personal experience in this domain. My parents have treated my brother and I the same throughout the years, being if possible more lenient with me, and look how things have turned out. With probably pretty close to the same IQ, I'm the one in the advanced courses, aspiring to be a vet or a lawyer, and he's the one glued to World of Warcraft all day long. They've done everything under the sun, hell I've done everything I can think of. Right now, there's nothing they can do but keep him under their watch and try to have him think about the better choices he could be making for his life. If they decided to kick him out, he'd leave. With his computer. He'd get a bad job and live the rest of his life on that, being lazy. I know my brother. There's only so much a parent can disallow. There's only so much a parent can do. They raise their kids with a set of values and then hope for the best. Obviously they continue to do their best during the kid's teenage years, but at that point, it's really more up to the kid than anyone else. Nosy parents annoy kids, and kids lie. I lie to my parents when it suits me, and what can they possibly do about it? "Did you have homework tonight?" [Yes, I had Physics, Chem, Math, English and History homework] "Er, yeah, just English tonight. I did it, wanna see?" Either way, the lie goes through. And there you go, a nosy parent that couldn't do much. (And that example didn't come from one of my own lies - I wouldn't lie about that.) Basically school is a gigantic part of a kid's life, because that's where we make friends and stuff. That's our bigger environment, and our parents are not in it. It's the most influential part of our lives and our parents are just sitting at home. That's why I say the parents raise us with a set of values. That way we can choose good friends then that will reenforce that set of values and yeah. Kids aren't dogs, there. You can try as you may to guide them until about the age of twelve, but they aren't easily guided later on. Lots of kids are really stubborn, and you can't just try to change their "childhood delusions" because they believe these delusions are "rational". In addition, the delusions are sometimes signs of a brain disorder, example schizophrenia (and many more). Most parents aren't psychologists and these signs are not easily recognizable until later (or too late). I suspect someone who goes on a killing rampage is suffering from some kind of (mild or serious) mental disorder, rather than simple "childhood delusions". Don't forget, he was twenty-five after all, and hadn't been a child for a few years. This guy's mum said he'd gotten quiet over the past few weeks, and a handwritten diary they found later on proved his mind was getting a little jumble-y. But give me a break. Your kid gets a little quiet. Are you automatically going to assume he's thinking up a diabolical plan to take over the world?
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:09 pm
You make an excellent point, but you fail to point out some other key factors. Notably, how do the parents treat each other? How do they act around other people? Do they have any problems of their own, such as alcoholism or anger problems? What goes on in the background can be just as important as what happens in the forground.
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:23 pm
Would the fact that he could have been Indian mean anything? With a name like kimveer Gill, I'd say he was. Though I haven't heard or read it anywhere.
I don't know. I could assume that since they're Indian they act very rosy around other people, but some could call me racist for that (not that it is, because it's a very justified stereotype). Then again, I guess it really depends on how Indian they are, or how long they've been here.
All that to say absolutely nothing, because the parents are refusing (or have been told to refuse) to say much to reporters and journalists. And I'm sure they wouldn't comment on how things are at home if they're notsogood, anyways.
Bah, I still maintain my point. Even though yours is.......................... notasgoodasminebutOKAY. I really think that in this particular case, based on what I've heard, seen and read, his outside environment was more a cause of this than his parents.
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:48 pm
Hey, I try. It's not my fault I'm not as smart as the rest of you. xp
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:09 pm
*Glows with pride* That's right! It's absolutely not your fault! =D
Blame your parents!
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:17 pm
I'd say that it's partly because of the parents, but not totally. That's why parents (try to) teach their children, but children aren't clones of their parents. But of course, blame your parents anyway. 3nodding
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:24 pm
...
*Exasperated sigh*
FINE DEIMOS, IF THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT, YOU WIN.
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:38 pm
Hey guys, I feel like posting tonight.
I feel bad for Kimveer Gill's parents.
I also feel bad for Kimveer.
I guess that being a loner isolated him.
And then he started living in a virtual world.
And the shooting happened.
But I'm sure if someone was there for him and put colours in his life, he would have been saved from all this killing.
Now it's too late, he's dead.
I don't know why I have so much hopes for him.
I was very shocked by the shooting.
I made a nightmare about it.
Why? No ******** clue.
I know it doesn't happen everyday and I shouldn't worry.
Whatever.
And Anastasia.
That's just horrible. :[[
I don't have much to say about it because my opinion is similar to everyone else's.
Aaaah anyways.
It's the first weekend I actually got a lot of homework to do.
I actually like all the classes I have except for history.
And I usually like history but with O'hara, eeeeew. xp
And tomorrow I have physical education.
I'm so excited. I have music right after it hehe.
How have you guys been?
I kind of missed this place.
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:45 pm
VAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!! heart heart heart ImissyouImissyouImissyou!!!!!
1. I don't feel bad for Gill, but I can't decide whose parents I feel more sorry for; his or DeSousa's. D:
2. I cannot take O'Hara seriously. Those clips have clouded my mind, and I can only laugh at everything he says quietly. Too bad we don't have a Greg in our classes.
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:55 pm
I miss you too Veelah.
I am so happy that you are in my physics and chemistry class.
At least we have some classes together. :]]]
I like O'hara's penguin walk.
And he can't write properly!
He wrote ''pueshe'' instead of ''does he''.
He wrore ''foud'', instead of ''food''.
You have to be good to decode some words with him haha.
I started to read the board and it sounded like a totally different language. rofl
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:32 pm
Coming back to the Gill talk, when I said sad childhood, I meant more like Kiwih. If only he had a friend to brighten his days. Nothing to do with his parents. xD As for what you wrote up there, Veelah, damn! I envy your genuosity!
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:20 am
Veelah Deimos. Take two sets of parents and their kids. Have the parents be the exact same with the kids. Exact same. Under such a circumstance I'd promptly make a discrete address to the officials at Area 51, reporting that their Martian suspects had somehow escaped. Because that's about as likely as two parents being EXACTLY the same with their children. I'm sorry, it's just not that simple, and the causation of which can be found only in our imperfect human nature. We're not machines, not robots.. and we seldom do the same thing twice in identical fashion, especially concerning the task of raising children. I never disputed that peer influences and school environments didn't have an effect. Indeed, they have a significant one - if not a greater effect. But just as a parent chooses which drugs to give their child when he/she's sick, a parent also weilds considerable discretion in that child's personal life and social environment. Look at the guy we're talking about. No one his in his living situation, with his obviously "abstract" mental state, should be allowed to have a semi-automatic firearm. His insecurities are evident. If " psychopath" were written on his forehead it couldn't be any clearer; this kid (and I stick to my conviction of 'kid', because he doesn't deserve any implications of maturity) had some obvious problems. The failure to recognize those problems is nonetheless a failure, and if the parents were just a little more vigilant and intrusive, a crisis could potentially have been avoided. I'm no fan of "what if" scenarios, but that's the reality in my opinion. It's a social and moral failing, and it should make us reflect on alienation and contemporary society.. but it should also make us think on the degree to which parents are becoming alienated from their own children. I'm not meaning to pick on parents. Again, it's a tough job. And this by no means vindicated the putrid little b*****d of his decision and his crime. But to understand any individual, you have to understand the people around him, and the role they play in his life. There is no role of more prestige and challenge than that of a parent. They decide the parameters. They live with the child. And they're responsible for ensuring core values are carried on. Period. PMS ... *Exasperated sigh* FINE DEIMOS, IF THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT, YOU WIN.
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:10 am
Veelah *Glows with pride* That's right! It's absolutely not your fault! =D Blame your parents!Yeah, stupid parents holding me back from true intellectual splendor! Let's rebel against the system! xp Speaking of which, I've been wanting to have a discussion about the merits and flaws (the many, many flaws) of anarchy for a while, since a few people that I'm forced to spend my life around have this crazy idea that it could 'work'. But, seeing as most of the people in Extended Discussion are high-n'-mighty assholes...>_> So, let's discuss the merits and flaws of anarchy. xp
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