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 Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:48 am
I.Am What's funny, though, is that Conservatives lean towards dictatorship, but a benign dictatorship. We tend to want a guy in power who can make things happen now, but will make the right things happen. we're not really so dictatorial. There's always a strive for a balance...conservatives fall in from strict dictatorship to forcing morals for the good of society, such as values on human life, and enforcing laws when they are broken. Liberals come from anarchy to really about the same thing but with less enforcement and more understanding towards human mistakes. I think both parties feel a moral obligation to society, but they've got these different paradigms and view morality differently. One tends to promote total government control (wait for it....I'm talking about democrats, not republicans...) and the other for less government control, yet the first goes for less force and the second for more force. I suppose if you want to be a bit freer from the government, you'd need to have a sort of independance and ability to enforce laws without the government being so involved. If you want to give the government more power, then you also want to make sure there's protection for people and leniency in the system. Why am I dwelling on this? I'm only 17 years old, lol.
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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:02 pm
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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:54 am
Yep. Actually, I'm thinking Kerry shoulda won just so we'd learn a lesson about what exactly happens when a politician is out-politicked by corrupt politicians in other countries. I think that's why I like Bush. He doesn't try so hard to politic people. Says what he means to do and doesn't change and doesn't surf the ratings, saying what it takes to get him in a position. Refusing to coopperate with people who will compromise America's security.
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:38 am
lymelady Yep. Actually, I'm thinking Kerry shoulda won just so we'd learn a lesson about what exactly happens when a politician is out-politicked by corrupt politicians in other countries. I think that's why I like Bush. He doesn't try so hard to politic people. Says what he means to do and doesn't change and doesn't surf the ratings, saying what it takes to get him in a position. Refusing to coopperate with people who will compromise America's security. I don't think most of America needs that lesson. Just the urbanites and newsmedia. Or do I need to break out the "by the county" election map again? razz
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:50 pm
Hey now, I'm the one who brought it in to start with... whee
The thing that scares me is that we're being led by a man who could've lost to Kerry. That there was the possibility so strong that it had people actually caring enough to vote.
The fact that he didn't wash out from the start makes me think we need Kerry...... Now let's impeach Bush so we can bring in Kerry and make us all miserable xd
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Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:58 pm
I do not support Bush. I do not like quite a bit of what he has done with the past 4 years, and I particularily dislike the manner in which it has been done. If I hear even one stereotype on my beliefs based on this comment, mind you, I will scream. You already know that my beliefs are both liberal and conservative based on the fact that I am in this guild. wink
I think Kerry would have made a better president, although I think the democrats should have found a stronger guide in this time of decision. I see how conservatives would say he had "flip-flopped," although after reading several of his less-acknowledged speeches from before the wartime, it is apparent that he has maintained a rather clear message for disarmament of Iraq rather than all-out war. Although he claimed to have had the perfect plan, he declined from fully explaining it. Will Bush maintained that the entire situation was a piece of cake (which I think is certainly not the case) Kerry acknowledged the complication but hardly laid out a bare outline for his big plan.
As a part-liberal, or mostly-liberal (as you might describe me, though I somewhat dislike the label wink ) I am very much for rights. I see no problem with rights that cause no physical or mental harm to those involved, and have no direct effect on outside parties, which is why I am pro gay rights and anti abortion. I am a Christian, but I value the religious diversity in this country. The day Christian beliefs become law is the day I move to Canada. Let me clarify: there is no doubt that Christianity has grown with civilization, and both law and Christian morals are often similar. However, when it comes to the point where a "sin" affects nobody but the consenting parties involved and does not contradict the already standing law, it should not be forbidden by law. I do not believe that one becomes more holy by forcing others to follow holy law, but instead by helping one another in the name of God. Let's keep the sliver we have separating Church and State, for the sake of not becoming a religiously-ruled nation such as Saudi Arabia.
Anyway, I've babbled enough, and hardly gotten anything across. xd
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Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:27 pm
Actually...Bush was pretty much voodoo in a lot of religions. He wasn't following his religion by going to war. In fact, he said God, pray, etc. less in his one term than Clinton said in his first two years as president. Flipflopping was a bit of a biggie I had a problem with. My qualm was the whole treason bit. I mean, maybe I'd be okay having a president who cuts deals with foreign leaders in order to look good but in the end enables them to continue killing. Listing flipflops over periods of decades is so idiotic. It's not flipflopping unless it's done within a certain amount of time, otherwise it's just plain common sense to listen to new evidence. But, I will say this, his opinions tended to match the results of the polls from the day before....he tried to mooch his way in. Clinton woulda pulled it off, but Kerry couldn't. Learned the hard way that you can't politic a whole country the same way you do MA. But um, yes, a lot of religious people gave up on the election and declared them equally bad. Bush for the war, Kerry on abortion. The flipflopping thing though is about as cheap as calling Bush an idiot. know how much money goes into those pilots? And how smart you gotta be to fly them? He's no saint. He makes mistakes. But Kerry scares me. The fact that he was default endorsed by about half a dozen terrorists (not including the UN members who accepted bribes from Saddam....) just scared me more. not to mention my fear of the draft, because a draft would not only squelch the war, it'd delay any future military actions and another 9/11 will come. I don't like death. Saddens me. lol, not just Americans, that's probly one reason I'm weird. If Kerry hadn't been such a politician, he woulda won, I think. When you look at it, Kerry was consistant. Very consistant. BUT he used twisting words to try to appeal to people....the same thing said different ways to please different crowds. Works in MA, but when the world's watching, you get caught.
THen again, I'm prettymuch for gay rights, so some of his social issues I disagree with him on. But in war, I don't care about those so much. I care about keeping as many people alive as we possibly can.
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:27 pm
Me in few words. I am to busy to elaborate.
Who I thought won on issues in my head.
Gay rights: Kerry
Abortion: George Bush
War in Iraq: Kerry
Stem Cell Research: Bush
Health Care: Kerry
Schools: Kerry
Economy: Kerry
Drilling for oil(to or not to): Kerry
Job cuts: Kerry
Choosing a Vice President: Kerry
Draft: George Bush
Choking on pretzels: Kerry
Speaking to the public: They both equally sucked
I am a moderate Democrat
Kerry: 9 Bush: 3 Tie: 1
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:02 pm
cascadia I do not support Bush. I do not like quite a bit of what he has done with the past 4 years, and I particularily dislike the manner in which it has been done. If I hear even one stereotype on my beliefs based on this comment, mind you, I will scream. You already know that my beliefs are both liberal and conservative based on the fact that I am in this guild. wink
I think Kerry would have made a better president, although I think the democrats should have found a stronger guide in this time of decision. I see how conservatives would say he had "flip-flopped," although after reading several of his less-acknowledged speeches from before the wartime, it is apparent that he has maintained a rather clear message for disarmament of Iraq rather than all-out war. Although he claimed to have had the perfect plan, he declined from fully explaining it. Will Bush maintained that the entire situation was a piece of cake (which I think is certainly not the case) Kerry acknowledged the complication but hardly laid out a bare outline for his big plan.
As a part-liberal, or mostly-liberal (as you might describe me, though I somewhat dislike the label wink ) I am very much for rights. I see no problem with rights that cause no physical or mental harm to those involved, and have no direct effect on outside parties, which is why I am pro gay rights and anti abortion. I am a Christian, but I value the religious diversity in this country. The day Christian beliefs become law is the day I move to Canada. Let me clarify: there is no doubt that Christianity has grown with civilization, and both law and Christian morals are often similar. However, when it comes to the point where a "sin" affects nobody but the consenting parties involved and does not contradict the already standing law, it should not be forbidden by law. I do not believe that one becomes more holy by forcing others to follow holy law, but instead by helping one another in the name of God. Let's keep the sliver we have separating Church and State, for the sake of not becoming a religiously-ruled nation such as Saudi Arabia.
Anyway, I've babbled enough, and hardly gotten anything across. xd I agree with you.
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:14 pm
Oooh! Oooh! Someone called me liberal!
I laughed. long and hard.
Of course it was in combination with the word "Christian" so....that changes it a teeny bit. But I maintain that past liberal Christians were abolitionists, suffregettes (can't spell), and following the teachings of some guy in a dirty robe who got nailed to the cross...well, technically those were liberal Jews I guess...so at least I'm in good company.
Liberal. me. xd Sorry. just had to share.
Kerry's thing that scared me about the economy was first of all, rolling back the Bush tax cuts, which woulda put a bunch of small businesses having less money or going bankrupt, meaning more layoffs. Also, raising minumum wage, which equals more layoffs. I'm 17. I'd sorta like to get a job sometime....
Eh. He and Bush were at the same place on gay rights by election day. publicly. Of course, by election day, Bush had said he would not like an ammendment to prevent it and Kerry said he would xd Poor guy's got horrid timing. But we all know where Bush is in his mind, and that's making it illegal. I can't tell where Kerry is, because he seemed extremely upset that Cheney's daughter was lesbian. That got me, it's sorta like saying, "I hate racism, but my opponent seems to think it should be legally enforced! By the way, this guy's friends with a ******." They both did their fair share of mudslinging.
Though I must say, I agree with Bush on a LOT.....
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:27 pm
lymelady Oooh! Oooh! Someone called me liberal! I laughed. long and hard. Of course it was in combination with the word "Christian" so....that changes it a teeny bit. But I maintain that past liberal Christians were abolitionists, suffregettes (can't spell), and following the teachings of some guy in a dirty robe who got nailed to the cross...well, technically those were liberal Jews I guess...so at least I'm in good company. Liberal. me. xd Sorry. just had to share. Kerry's thing that scared me about the economy was first of all, rolling back the Bush tax cuts, which woulda put a bunch of small businesses having less money or going bankrupt, meaning more layoffs. Also, raising minumum wage, which equals more layoffs. I'm 17. I'd sorta like to get a job sometime.... Eh. He and Bush were at the same place on gay rights by election day. publicly. Of course, by election day, Bush had said he would not like an ammendment to prevent it and Kerry said he would xd Poor guy's got horrid timing. But we all know where Bush is in his mind, and that's making it illegal. I can't tell where Kerry is, because he seemed extremely upset that Cheney's daughter was lesbian. That got me, it's sorta like saying, "I hate racism, but my opponent seems to think it should be legally enforced! By the way, this guy's friends with a ******." They both did their fair share of mudslinging. Though I must say, I agree with Bush on a LOT..... You got them mixed up. Bush wants the amendment to ban gay rights.
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:32 pm
he stepped down about two days before the election...hours later Kerry gave a statement supporting it. It was kinda...hillarious? Anyway, he made a statement where he said he would not persue an ammendment, just a little before KErry said he would support such an ammendment.
Bad timing, he's got bad timing.
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 4:00 pm
lymelady he stepped down about two days before the election...hours later Kerry gave a statement supporting it. It was kinda...hillarious? Anyway, he made a statement where he said he would not persue an ammendment, just a little before KErry said he would support such an ammendment. Bad timing, he's got bad timing.
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:00 pm
Well, Kerry was trying to get in bed with the guys who got in bed with Saddam. I mean....Bush's dishonesty pales in comparrison. Corrupt only to the point of politicing, and if one lie counts as corruption, some of the greatest presidents history remembers were corrupt....including, but not limited to, Clinton xd And Teddy, and FDR, and Lincoln told a few I think, hmm. Or maybe he was just patriot acting...well, not exactly the patriot act, but close to it. Adams. Heh, he pulled off a great one in his lame duck session. Didn't get him much, though, a lot of the appointments were thrown out. But some still made it through. But yeah, I guess can't have it both ways. either he sticks to his gut or he changes to meet the approval of the american people.
Eek, my cousin came over and we had a sleepover (she's 9) and I said something about boys being stupid (we joke about boys being silly a lot as we both have younger brothers) and she said, "Yeah, like Bush." I wasn't gonna say anything, because her parents wouldn't like that, so I just said, "Better than Kerry. At least this way we know why we're getting attacked when we are...." Good thing she thought it was funny, I had no idea how to get past that one.
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:52 pm
lymelady Well, Kerry was trying to get in bed with the guys who got in bed with Saddam. I mean....Bush's dishonesty pales in comparrison. Corrupt only to the point of politicing, and if one lie counts as corruption, some of the greatest presidents history remembers were corrupt....including, but not limited to, Clinton xd And Teddy, and FDR, and Lincoln told a few I think, hmm. Or maybe he was just patriot acting...well, not exactly the patriot act, but close to it. Adams. Heh, he pulled off a great one in his lame duck session. Didn't get him much, though, a lot of the appointments were thrown out. But some still made it through. But yeah, I guess can't have it both ways. either he sticks to his gut or he changes to meet the approval of the american people. Eek, my cousin came over and we had a sleepover (she's 9) and I said something about boys being stupid (we joke about boys being silly a lot as we both have younger brothers) and she said, "Yeah, like Bush." I wasn't gonna say anything, because her parents wouldn't like that, so I just said, "Better than Kerry. At least this way we know why we're getting attacked when we are...." Good thing she thought it was funny, I had no idea how to get past that one. One lie?
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