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Yep, we have different standards for what constitutes badass.

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Ok, first of all, I already mentioned that I worship Disturbed, so I am in no way being harsh or insulting them by calling them a faux facade.

And really, at this point, all I can think of doing is reillustrating my point in a different, more simplistic manner. If you reply with another long post that derives in any way from it I quit. Here I go:

You yourself said that Disturbed's lyrics and songs are not all wrapped around in dark, satanic themes, that they discuss real world problems and delve into fantasy.

Ok then. But, there is no denying that Disturbed's entire image, their look, their heavyness, their mascot, their album covers, their videos, is way darker than their songs and lyrics make them out to be.

That, my friend, is a faux facade.

And yes, Draimin not actually being as dark as he looks does imply theatrics. But theatrics is just another way to say a faux facade. And that is not a harsh term what-so-ever.

I can't speak for these others bands you mention because I am not nearly familiar with them as I am Disturbed.

If anything, they're much more angrier than they are dark, in which case the black clothes make them appear rather emo, although they don't play emo rock.

Well, it's bigger. But the ladies like that.

No, that's still not Faux Facade. In fact, here's what WOULD be faux facade. If their music was 'disturbed' and in interviews, they acted like a bunch of dark, insane people, but then they were actually nice family oriented guys. That's faux facade.
But no, they're not hiding who they really are, backstage, or at interviews, or whatever.

You want a prime example of faux facade, here it is: TATU

I don't know if you remember who they are, but they were these couple of Russian chicks, who had like one major hit here in Northa America. And their whole thing was that they were lesbians with one another. They had lesbian imagery in their music videos. They kissed on interviews, they wanted people to believe that they were lesbians, and yes, that sold their album really well. But in reality they had husbands back home, and weren't lesbians at all. That's faux facade.

And frankly, if you watch a music video or a concert and just from the kind of vibe and imagery, assume that the band is just like that outside of their actual music, then you're a gullible idiot. No offense. But you're old enough to drink, so you should be old enough to know that virtually nobody who has a certain image in their music is actually like that in real life. And they don't hide it. Eminem isn't a woman raping homophobe. Slayer are not satanists. Etc. And at no point in their interviews, do I ever recall them claiming that they were like that in real life. Therefore it's not faux facade.

Obviously, the issue at hand is not whether Disturbed are Faux Facade, it's the sheer meaning of Faux Facade. But I consider it very different from theatrics. There's no clear definition, since faux means fake. And facade means, "a showy misrepresentation intended to conceal something unpleasant". In other words, it's meant to deceive people into thinking you are something you're not. Just because a band might put up an exciting, dark and disturbing show, doesn't mean they're trying to conceal anything or put on a facade, it simply means they're trying to entertain you. In fact, I wouldn't even consider Alice Cooper's shows to be Faux Facade, even though he obviously doesn't actually get decapitated for fun. It's entertainment. And like I said, if listening to a dark band, you automatically assume that that's what they're like in real life, then with all due respect, you're a gullible fool.

And like I said, I stopped assuming things like that since I was like 14.


EDIT: Okay, if you're a lazy a**, I'll summarize:

Faux Facade is defined, "a showy misrepresentation intended to conceal something unpleasant", in other words, to deceive people into thinking you are something you're not, such as TATU, who wanted people to think they were lesbians to sell albums, when they were actually married, straight chicks. That is very different from theatrics, where you put on a show like what Disturbed does, but don't actually try to hide who they are in interviews and such. Or alter ego, where you use your medium, music, acting, etc. to let your inner demons and inhibitions out. Like "The Mask" in a way. Maybe they really ARE disturbed inside, and they're being their real selves on stage, which makes for an outlet for their inhibitions and emotions. And in their interviews, they simply go back to that normal way of acting that we are taught in society. In which case, if anything is 'faux facade' it's the way they act outside of their music.

So, you're saying that if the band is dark, the only way NOT to be faux facade is if its members are always depressed and broody? See, if anything, THAT's faux facade. I honestly don't believe that Trent Reznor goes home and sits there brooding, and talking to people in that low, depressed tone the way he always sounds. In fact, here's an interview where he seems to me like a regular, normal guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxiw6KEJigE&feature=related
So what makes NIN 'dark' in real life?

And just because Draiman seems like a happy, normal guy, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a lot of inner demons. Like I said, music could very well be an outlet. Just because he doesn't act like a clynically depressed douche, doesn't mean that he's completely well adjusted. In fact, how many of us can actually say they aren't at least a little bit 'disturbed' deep inside. It doesn't mean we can't be functional members of society.

I'm saying that trying to always keep being broody and depressing, just so that you're not seen as a 'fake' is faux facade in itself. Frankly, I think bands like Slipknot (who wear their masks at interviews) are MORE Faux Facade than Disturbed who are actually being themselves at interviews. And not trying to be all, "This is our 'image.'"

I couldn't even find any information on a band named Mammoth. I found a stoner metal band named Wooly Mammoth, but even that band seems to be small enough that I can't find any interviews with them. So I can't possibly speak about them.

But okay, let me divert the subject. Take a guy like Draiman. Forget about his tattoos, piercings, whatever. Just, personality wise... What kind of music SHOULD he be doing? If you say that he's too happy go lucky for Metal.

But how do you know? How do we know that anyone is actually the way they are in interviews? I mean, sometimes yeah, people have criminal records, commit suicides, things like that. But more often than not, you only see what they're really like through interviews.
And heck, even Slipknot, in spite of always having their little masks on, still speak like normal, intelligent guys.

See? That's a very stupid mentality. He's not in a Metal band because he HAS to be. He loves the music, it's in his soul, it's him. I'm sure if he joined a classic rock band (aside from selling himself short), he'd be miserable in it, because it wouldn't have enough intensity to provide an outlet for... Whether it's his energy, or his inner demons, or whatever else. And if Draiman truly loves Metal with his soul, but he became like, the most famous Alternative Rock artist in the world, and stuck with it, simply for the money and the success of it, then he's not being true to himself. If anything, THAT'S faux facade.

And honestly, what are you even talking about? The 'sound and mood' of the music? That's even more stupid. Like I said, Disturbed, don't claim to be satanists. When their music is personal, it's real. When it's not personal, it's fictional. The insane asylum imagery and all that, it's all a metaphor, like Draiman himself said. It's like with Fear Factory. You could listen to a FF album and say, "Well clearly, it's basically Terminator Fan Fiction," but it's more than that. It's a metaphor for our society and things like that. They're just being theatrical about it.
Theatrics, alter ego... NOT Faux Facade.
That's all that this conversation boils down to, really. And even if you and I have different definitions of "Faux Facade" you actually started with "Wannabe". That's just... Shameful vocabulary.
I guarantee you, that aside from maybe mainstream pop artists, no self respecting musician in the world would commit to a music genre, unless they loved it with all their sould. In which case, some part of them IS true to that music genre/tone, even if it's not as cut and dry as being broody all the time.

But he's not a liar. At no point in listening to Disturbed have I ever gotten even the slightest impression that any of them are some insane, messed up people, only to find out that they're actually normal guys. And you can hear that they're normal guys by their music. It's not some far side of an extreme of Black Metal or Doom Metal, or something crazy like Unexpect. It's just normal Modern Heavy Metal, with influences of industrial and alternative Metal. And their song writing capabilities are very good. You obviously agree, you like them. And even AT their concerts, when Draiman announces the songs, and speaks to the crowd, he's very real and natural. Even as far as showmanship goes, they obviously don't even stage huge theatrical productions like Alice Cooper or Ozzy. So I don't know at what point you got the impression that they were lying to you about their nature or image or whatever.

Devin Townshend, on the other hand, was pretty messed up. And from listening to songs like this, it's pretty evident: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw903mFTkcE&feature=fvst

Yeah, but he wasn't just armless. I mean, he got messed up by Outer Haven crashing into him (even if that made absolutely no sense in terms of physics). He didn't have any time to recover. So he'd be much, much weaker. Those Haven troopers had a good chance of taking him out. Either way, it would've been better and more justified if he died. And I'm sure you would've liked to see him croak for good as well.

Tell me, does this happen while you have full control of the character? Because that's another thing, even when the black guy is talking to you, you're given the option to keep running around like you're not even paying attention. And he asks, "Are you okay? ... Okay, good." I dunno... They should've just implemented actual cinematics. It would've made the game a hell of a lot more interesting.

Well, it felt less dominant than the shooting in RE1. So if you think that's dominant, when headshots happen completely randomly, then we're obviously speaking in different languages. It's not like there's pin point targeting in Alan Wake, as long as you actually hit the enemy, it's all that matters.

You know what that sounds like to me? That sounds like an action shooter. Not like Survival Horror.

Well, I'll be the judge of how tedious they are.
But playing through Dead Space, following that tether from one location to another, that was tedious. And even if the actual 3D modeling was pretty, and the locations were justified, the blandness of it, and having the exact same dark and drab tone for the entire game bored me to death. So far, Alan Wake had been a lot more visually compelling.

But like I said, it wasn't the monster bits in Alan Wake that were scary. It's when it's quiet and deserted, and you don't know what to expect next that sets up the scares, even when nothing happens. In Dead Space there was none of that. Even when it's empty, I didn't feel that, "What's around the corner?" vibe.

So is pretty much every Silent Hill protagonist ever, including Silent Hill 2, which still has the most character depth, scares and like I said, I still stand by my statement that it's the best Survival Horror that has ever been made.

That's not the point. The point is that without that blue tether, it's impossible to navigate that damn game. Like I said, looking at that 3D map confused the hell out of me. So in order to get where I needed to go, I needed to use that blue tether. But the whole idea of using that blue tether completely defeats the purpose of A. Having a map and B. Exploring.

Well, I wouldn't have missed it if I wasn't so damn bored. Now even if the second half of the game is more interesting... I found the first half really boring, so I'd still probably find the second half mostly boring.

And okay, I won't make direct comparisons to Alan Wake just yet. But what HAS already been established, is that the protagonist is a hell of a lot more interesting than Isaac, since he has a damn voice and personality. And his relationship with his wife is actually fleshed out, unlike this faceless girlfriend who you care absolutely nothing for in Dead Space, because no relationship is established.

You know what though? Some parts of Mass Effect and ME2 felt more creepy and claustrophobic than Dead Space. Exploring that Collector Ship in ME2 was more creepy than playing Dead Space.

Well, maybe. But in terms of actual horror. In terms of how scary it is... So far Alan Wake is ahead, and I've gotten further in Deadly Premonition. I'm not saying that it's not Survival Horror, I'm just saying... Code Veronica was survival horror too, but it was far from actually being scary. And you don't get scared by games, but I do. And Remake was scary, and Silent Hill 1 - 4 and Origins were scary, and most of those I played well after Code Veronica, so it's not like I became desensitized. And Alan Wake once again reawakened that feeling of being creeped out in me, which has NOT happened since... Pretty much since 2007 when Silent Hill Origins came out.
And as interesting as Deadly Premonition is, it's not scary. And I'm okay with that. But the scare factor influences pretty much half of my decision on what is a "Good Horror Game".

But it's that trainwreck. The whole thing that DP sometimes feels like the developers didn't know what the hell they were doing, and some things feeling like they're ahead of the industry by 5 years, that makes it interesting and compelling. But it ain't scary. You can give me an incidentally good game like Deadly Premonition, or you can give me a picture of polished gameplay, graphics and sound design like RE4. But if it's not scary, it's not good horror. And yes, that is a matter of opinion, different people find different things scary, and some people don't find anything scary. But if that's so objective, than you can't say, "This is a better game than this" any more than I can. So you can't say that DP or Dead Space is better than Alan Wake "on all fronts," when Alan Wake is clearly a great game with plenty to offer to the Survival Horror genre. A hell of a lot more than some RE4 clone.

Okay, let me put it this way. I think Silent Hill Homecoming is a better Survival Horror game than Dead Space. But having played what little of Alan Wake I have, I can already conclude that it's a better Survival Horror game than Silent Hill Homecoming.

That's messed up though. Because I used to watch Nightmare on Elm Street, Child's Play, etc. since I was 2 years old, and they didn't scare me. But after playing RE2 for the first time, I got frightened by a moth that flew into my house, that's how much it freaked me out. And after I beat all the Resident Evil games, and then discovered Silent Hill, after playing Silent Hill 2, I couldn't fall asleep and wished I had someone to hug.

Well, I'm still gonna reply.

And yet, it did nothing to immerse me. Neither did the, in-game hud that eliminates any on screen components. Now, don't get me wrong, I think that's a good thing that you don't have a floating energy bar in the corner all the time. But it did nothing to make me feel like I'm there, like I'm attached to the game with no breaking points. I mean, Resident Evil has very, very extensive use of the item menu, and it did it no harm.

Except Dead Space is soulless and uninteresting. Disagree if you want. But it takes more than "Good gameplay, grpahics and sound design" to make a good game. So I can say that Dead Space has all those aspects nice and polished, but if it's boring, then it's not a fun game, then Alan Wake is better, because it kept my attention.

They weren't creepy. They were just dull. Maybe it's the lack of music. I don't recall Dead Space having much music. Whereas Alan Wake has a teriffic soundtrack that helps set the atmosphere.


Like I said, it's the issue I had with Metroid Prime. Yes, you do have a map. But if that map is impossible to read, then what good is it? They should've just had a 2D map for every floor, like normal games.

These things whouldn't be established at the end, they should be established at the beginning. You don't make someone play through the entire game and then at the end say, "By the way, this is why you should give a crap."

I don't know how you can differentiate a good Survival Horror game from a bad one, if you're not scared by any of them. That's the thing. A survival horror game that isn't scary is just an Action Adventure game.