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 Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:42 pm
Xanilus In a perfect world, Obama would speak to the nation and say "I am not a black president. I am not a white president. I am an American president... and that is all that matters."
This race, color, ethnicity, religion, sexual preference, and whatever other "you are different from me in *insert reason* way" bullshit is a self perpetuating prejudice machine.
Whether it's in a positive or negative light, referring to someone as different is what helps to maintain the walls that keep us all apart.
IMO... we're all ******** class="clear"> I really don't like saying "BOY IM AMERICAN AND THATS ALL THAT MATTERS", due to the fact that I'd rather say, "I'm human. You're human. Good enough. We have differences. But it doesn't matter." Utopias instill sameness. The Giver makes a good point of their Utopia... It's rude to ask about anything that seems to make someone different. Even eye color. Sameness... Utopia. Not really a world I'd want, though. Egh. I'm a Mexicant. <3
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:06 pm
AirisMagik I enjoy Boondocks, though I never see it. I thought there was a distinct difference between *****, and ******. But Pyre, with your experience, what is your take? Yeah, I only ever seem to see the same three episodes myself. My take? It's all semantics. The black people who go about calling each other "niggas" will tell you that there is a difference. But, to me, if there was really a difference, it would be acceptable for people of other ethnicities to use the "friendly" term, and it's not. If you're not black, you're going to get the same amount of hostility for calling people "*****" as "******." It's like affectionately calling your friend "b***h" or "********." But you're only allowed to do it if you're black. *applauds Xani's post*
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:15 pm
Well, true, being human comes above being American. I kinda more meant it in the form of a speech to the American people, though yeah.
There are always going to be differences between people. Genetics, for one, takes care of that. It's not until we can say "Hey, you're different. s**t happens. Wanna hang out?" that things will truly be 'on the right track'.
Eh, what a world.EDIT: /bow ^^
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:24 pm
Lady Pyre AirisMagik I enjoy Boondocks, though I never see it. I thought there was a distinct difference between *****, and ******. But Pyre, with your experience, what is your take? Yeah, I only ever seem to see the same three episodes myself. My take? It's all semantics. The black people who go about calling each other "niggas" will tell you that there is a difference. But, to me, if there was really a difference, it would be acceptable for people of other ethnicities to use the "friendly" term, and it's not. If you're not black, you're going to get the same amount of hostility for calling people "*****" as "******." It's like affectionately calling your friend "b***h" or "********." But you're only allowed to do it if you're black. *applauds Xani's post* But... I know plenty of white kids who say that to black guys. They act really ..."ghetto"? I guess is the word. They got bling. Whatever. Essentially they are in the black community. And I'm allowed to call my roomie *****! If I wanted. But I don't talk like that, so. Whoo whoo. Xani, of course a lot of people would love it if he were to be "I R AMERICANS SO R U", but... those small communities that somehow isolate themselves in order to harbor their beliefs into their children of hate, just... sticks. Lets urbanize everyone! Jk. But srsly, I feel really, REALLY uncomfortable in those tiny white communities. edit: Also, once my lovely's family finds out that we're dating-for-seriously, not just hand-holding teeny-bopper crush stuff, most of them will disown her except one sister, and her mother after a while. Mostly on the account of me being Mexican. Even though she's a quarter. I'm half. /stare stare
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:11 pm
AirisMagik But... I know plenty of white kids who say that to black guys. They act really ..."ghetto"? I guess is the word. They got bling. Whatever. Essentially they are in the black community. And I'm allowed to call my roomie *****! If I wanted. But I don't talk like that, so. Whoo whoo. I have never heard it done. Granted, I did not hang out with the people who used that word outside of school. The family friends that came over to our house or invited us over for barbecues and such... they did not use the word. They taught their children that it was ignorant and should not be done. I believe I actually witnessed a dressing down of one of the boys by his mother for thinking it was cool to call his "homies" that. It just seems like it would be a risky, volatile thing. So you get permission to use the word towards somebody because they like you. (And I'm going to point out that you DID have to get permission, here. Seeing as how I'm white, the thought of giving my friends PERMISSION to call me "*****" never crossed my mind, but I had a friend call me that because he thought I was black. So I'm going to infer that black people do not ask other black people permission.) What if you piss them off and unwittingly use it while they're angry at you? I'd expect a screaming match, at least. Or if another black person who holds different ideas about the word overhears you and jumps in. It's just a really dumb idea. It's dumb enough when black people do it, but for a non-black person to do it, regardless of being accepted by the black community, it just becomes moronic. I would never say it, my mother would never say it... hell, not even Eminem says it. Yeah. That's right. The only white rapper to ever be taken seriously will not even say the word if he is singing along to a song and it pops up.
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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:51 am
To be perfectly honest, I have lived around some predominantly black neighborhoods (especially now in the Tidewater VA area) and I have noted that anyone who was NOT African-American who used the dreaded "n-word" were beaten senseless within minutes. It's just NOT DONE. And on the internet, it is hard to ascertain race or ethnicity, and as such, the "n-word" is rather over prevalent than it should be.
Needless to say, I had asked people on a message board not to use the n-word unless they had documented proof that they were, in fact, black. And of course, when you use the term "n-word" on the chanboards, people think you're talking about Naruto.
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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:32 pm
Lady Pyre Sevi Rais Quote: gays aren't allowed to marry for the law It has to do with homosexuality being a sin in religion(s). The law is a different story but we're talking about one group wanting to marry legally within any religion when it's not acceptable to do so (in some). So you have one group (gays) going against a religious rule and religion(s) going against gays because of that (without learning acceptance.) Both groups made mistakes. The Supreme Court thinking they could just legalize gay marriage against the people's consent, thinking that the people weren't going to act against it. Then you have the constitutional amendment barring a sexual orientation from joining together, which is discrimination. But, the problem being, that the state(s) is getting involved in religion when these two institutions are suppose to be separate. I assume you all are going to get very mad at me now. ugh. hehNice white text... I'm certainly going to point out the flaws in your logic. Marriage is not a religious institution - it is a social one. While some religions which view homosexuality as a sin also view marriage as a sacrament, that does not change the fact that a marriage is LEGALLY recognized by the State - not the Church. Church and State are supposed to be separate in America. It does not follow that the State should disallow something based on religious reasons. If a priest wants to refuse to marry a gay couple, then he is within the rights of his religion to do so. But not everybody sees marriage as a religious matter, and for those who do not see it as such, it should not be held as such. For example, my parents are both straight and both Christian. They were not married in a church, but by a judge. They were also divorced by a judge. Heh. That's an interesting viewpoint Pyre and well said. 3nodding Waltz By "cleverly disguised" I don't mean tasteless jokes and name-calling. I mean the things that people swallow every day without thinking about it. Movies. News. Magazines. Books. It instills a mindset. In Disney's Mulan, they teach you individuality over backwards community ideals, using conservative Asian values to contrast the noble heroic American ones. Can you name ten modern Asian American actors who've played meaningful roles? Can you think of more than ten inspirational African American movies that aren't mindless comedies with Eddie Murphy or your stereotyped "nuh-uh girlfriend"? And then there's stuff most people don't even THINK of as racism in the news, like "the poor helpless people of this country need America's help to become a better nation!" Or "let's adopt foreign babies because they're probably miserable wherever they came from and we'll totally underestimate the cultural identity issues the kid will have later but it doesn't matter 'cause they should feel LUCKY we plucked them off the streets!" Or, "Look what what poisonous product China recalled now, look how backwards their government is. They're really bad people, here's some more negative news coverage." It IS all there if you look for it, cleverly disguised. It's not an issue of "if you don't see race it won't be there." It's an issue of "if you don't see race where there is racism, you're desensitized and you think this is normal." What people are fighting for is equal treatment and fair portrayal of ethnicites. And I really don't understand why so many people take offense to educated minorities speaking up unless it's that feeling of "white guilt" people think they're supposed to have. The thing you have to realize is that anyone attacking white people for their problems isn't a true advocate to the cause. The people who deserve the beating are the leaders, the filmmakers, the NY Post editor, the deep-rooted political histories, the brains who perpetuate the problems, the sheperds who are leading us, the sheep, around in circles so we never learn that our pastures are fenced in. This is exactly what I've been seeing as a result of us becoming desensitized. I think most of us have ignored a large part of it, ignorantly thinking that it doesn't effect them, when it already has. I probably effects all of us in this guild to a certain extent. People adapt to their surroundings. *shrug*
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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:47 pm
RyanJakobi To be perfectly honest, I have lived around some predominantly black neighborhoods (especially now in the Tidewater VA area) and I have noted that anyone who was NOT African-American who used the dreaded "n-word" were beaten senseless within minutes. Same here. But I wasn't going to be the one to say it. Because then I'd be stereotyping all blacks as violent and omg! racism. But really... so true. emo If you know non-blacks who regularly use the word, either things are vastly different up there in Michigan (lol it's so far), or the people using it have the IQ of a grape fruit and/or a death wish. No quicker way to start a fight than to walk into a room full of black people and drop the n-bomb. That, or step on somebody's sneakers (it really does happen). biggrin
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:49 pm
Lady Pyre RyanJakobi To be perfectly honest, I have lived around some predominantly black neighborhoods (especially now in the Tidewater VA area) and I have noted that anyone who was NOT African-American who used the dreaded "n-word" were beaten senseless within minutes. Same here. But I wasn't going to be the one to say it. Because then I'd be stereotyping all blacks as violent and omg! racism. But really... so true. emo If you know non-blacks who regularly use the word, either things are vastly different up there in Michigan (lol it's so far), or the people using it have the IQ of a grape fruit and/or a death wish. No quicker way to start a fight than to walk into a room full of black people and drop the n-bomb. That, or step on somebody's sneakers (it really does happen). biggrin I am guessing its different. This white kid I knew in highschool used it all the time with his black buddddies. And I didn't ask for permission, the topic came up... and he just sorta explained, that if you're cool with him, then it's fine. If he hates you, then he'll hit you. lawlz. Other than that... My friend who grew up with racists, he's very white, accidentally my now roommate a ******... during a video game, when my now roommate was kicking his butt=3 He laughed, then realized what he said, apologized and what have you, but my roommate just kept playing and said it was alright. So I am guessin' he was cool enough with him... But fo'suuuure I thought he was gonna be mad. The complexity of that word up here is ... different. ;3 Cause my roommate does get mad easy and ... being from Detroit, has no problem beating people.
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:49 pm
I wouldn't want people to be the same. But I'd want them to be equal.
I love cultural diversity. I'm 100% Vietnamese, the child of refugees, nonreligious, raised around Buddhist family, bilingual, and I spent my adolescence in Thailand where I'd travel to a different country each holiday. I spent my childhood around RL friends born and raised in Sweden, Sri Lanka, China, South Africa, New Zealand - wherever, I dare you to name it. I have cousins in France, Germany and Vietnam. My best friend is a Caucasian girl who's lived in Venezuela. My dad lives in the Philippines. The love of my life is Irish, nonreligious, raised Catholic. He speaks fluent Spanish and works with the Latino community every day. My hometown is 33% white.
And, I'm a natural-born American girl. You bet your a** I had a cultural identity crisis as a kid - my nationality, ethnicity, and country of residence all didn't match up and I never could define exactly "what" I was.
Does this make me special? No. Does this mean I'm an expert on world cultures? Definitely no. But different - yes, I have a different lifestyle from my neighbor, who has a different lifestyle from their neighbor. We're all unique, and that's one of the cool things about America.
In an ethnically diverse community, if people want to coexist in harmony, they need to be tolerant and tread softly. The attitude I've seen over this monkey cartoon is quite the opposite. Those who say, "It's not about black people. It's about politics" should ALSO be saying, "The retaliation is not about white people. It's about a newspaper." But instead, racism is enforced on all sides as people automatically flock behind ethnicity. "Don't call us that." And, "We never said that about you. Don't call us racists." We, us - all these pronouns that show affiliation - it's hypocritical.
At international school, we had a lot of strict rules, dictating what to wear and how to behave... because that's how you avoid offending 25 different cultures and their gods all at once. During my time there, many people compared the 9-11 terrorists to kamikaze. As a result, every teacher in school was required to apologize and explain that the references to kamikaze weren't intended to harm any of the Japanese students, and that everyone should be careful about how they use the term. (Let alone calming the fears between American and Middle Eastern students.)
Now imagine if the response had been, "The world didn't mean it that way, Japanese kids. It's your own fault for feeling sensitive." Instead of diplomacy, that reaction is based on annoyance and by extension, anger. Anger at the people who feel wronged. Which reinforces what they were complaining about in the first place.
I say let people voice their concerns. And instead of this "blame the victim, leave them to their own prejudices" attitude, ask the offenders to address those concerns appropriately. It takes effort on all sides to heal ethnic rifts. Even if people appear to be overreacting to a problem, by shrugging off the pleas of an entire community, they're left with yet another reason to believe that society does not care about them.
And this isn't to say that people can't take a joke. Where there is diversity, there's bound to be a few punch lines here and there. They're hilarious when done respectfully, but jokes are not funny when they're pulled against people who already feel humiliated and marginalized enough.
Finally, about Obama not being black or white, in a perfect world, no one would pay attention to race because there would be such equal representation of ethnicity, religion and sexual orientation that it would seem normal. Sadly, millions of Americans have never had a role model they could relate to, or a respectable leader that inspired them to believe, "I am different, but I am also American." Do you know how it feels to turn on a TV and feel like a second-rate citizen in your own country, because the Americans who look and act like you are stereotyped embarrassments (if they're on TV at all)? Obama is something to be proud about, and not just for African Americans, but for all people who have ever felt excluded because of their skin, gender, lifestyle, religion or sexual preference. He represents the dream that someday, Americans will be able to look past all a person's attributes and judge them by their merit and character.
And seriously, you'd have to be a real d**k to roll your eyes at that.
With that, I've said everything that I wanted to say on this topic of race. It's a tough subject to talk about because everybody always has different opinions - all I can do is add my two cents and hope that we can all come to understand each other.
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