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 Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:17 pm
I agree about the individualism of popular culture. I wish love would be like perfect romance stories with happily ever after endings. It saddens me how the children must deal with these things. What makes one relationship great and another hell? Matching and compatibility tests talk about similarity-complementary attributes, but when trouble comes, will they matter? Financial problems and other circumstances play roles I know, but I know couples who fought hard to rise above those negative pressures. So to develop a lasting relationship, do we count on personality and will power for its survival? Or is love just a mere illusion, as some people say. A nice term for hormones and neurons firing up for a tempoary span. ScarlettWitch Edit: Just thought of this; How does being American mean that you are not Asian of Hispanic????? If you were born and raised in this country, you are an American. Race does not dictate country of origin. I meant cultures, not races. I refer to a poll in a college textbook which showed very low divorce rates for the two types of Americans in comparision to higher rates for European-American and African-Americans, but there's also a difference with 1st, 2nd and 3rd generations. Longer we stay here, higher the rate. Weird sweatdrop
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:46 am
I think the real key to finding a true love and maintaining a good relationship is to find someone you love (and who loves you), who has faults you can live with, and not to get tangled up in money or politics or any other vital-but-emotionally-trivial part of life. A lot of perfectly good relationships end up going south because of differing political views and money issues.
I've been with my significant other five years now, and I think the best decision we've made so far is to not marry and not get joint bank accounts. We split everything evenly, he has his money and I have mine, and never the twain shall meet. We never fight about it, and when one of us is in financial trouble we can always count on the other to back us up, because we love each other. (We always pay each other back, though)
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:40 am
My husband and I are 22 and 23. We've been together 6 years. We have absolutely no intention of getting a divorce. I suppose it could happen, but I sincerely doubt it. I am American and he is Canadian.
Now, you may ask us, how did we do it in a society that is so ME-driven? How have we managed to forge a lasting relationship in a society where 50% of marriages fail (and an untold number of dating relationships and engagements also fail)? Well, the answer is simple...
I was born and raised in Switzerland. He was born and raised in Russia. What seems like the only two people in all of North America who manage to make a relationship last - are from Europe xd
Sorry, that's a little joke of mine. Obviously, we aren't the only two people. But it is true that North America is a very big throw-away culture. If something doesn't work, replace it. Things are made so cheaply that you can do that. Often, it would cost more to have your blender fixed than it would to just go down to WalMart and buy a new one. So that's the culture - If you break it, buy a new one. It's not a stretch to see why people who have lived their entire lives with this mentality might apply the same logic to their relationships. After all, if they've had no practice really sticking with something, learning to live with the ways in which it doesn't work.
To illustrate the differences - my husband and I have a TV. The colors are all messed up - reds and blues bleed off to the sides. His parents, who have been married 25 years, have a TV with a picture that curves inwards, like an hourglass. Both of our families have the money to replace them, but we don't. Why? Because other than these flaws, these are good TVs that we've had for years. You can still see the picture, they are therefore good enough. My parents, on the other hand, never married. They were together 5 years and my mother moved out when I was 4. My mother has a brand new TV that works perfectly. My father doesn't own a TV, but he gets a new computer every year.
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:55 pm
Kukushka My husband and I are 22 and 23. We've been together 6 years. We have absolutely no intention of getting a divorce. I suppose it could happen, but I sincerely doubt it. I am American and he is Canadian. Now, you may ask us, how did we do it in a society that is so ME-driven? How have we managed to forge a lasting relationship in a society where 50% of marriages fail (and an untold number of dating relationships and engagements also fail)? Well, the answer is simple... I was born and raised in Switzerland. He was born and raised in Russia. What seems like the only two people in all of North America who manage to make a relationship last - are from Europe xd Sorry, that's a little joke of mine. Obviously, we aren't the only two people. But it is true that North America is a very big throw-away culture. If something doesn't work, replace it. Things are made so cheaply that you can do that. Often, it would cost more to have your blender fixed than it would to just go down to WalMart and buy a new one. So that's the culture - If you break it, buy a new one. It's not a stretch to see why people who have lived their entire lives with this mentality might apply the same logic to their relationships. After all, if they've had no practice really sticking with something, learning to live with the ways in which it doesn't work. To illustrate the differences - my husband and I have a TV. The colors are all messed up - reds and blues bleed off to the sides. His parents, who have been married 25 years, have a TV with a picture that curves inwards, like an hourglass. Both of our families have the money to replace them, but we don't. Why? Because other than these flaws, these are good TVs that we've had for years. You can still see the picture, they are therefore good enough. My parents, on the other hand, never married. They were together 5 years and my mother moved out when I was 4. My mother has a brand new TV that works perfectly. My father doesn't own a TV, but he gets a new computer every year. There's a lot of truth to that. confused I was planning on getting a new computer when I have the money to do so, though after reading that I feel a little ashamed. (There's probably nothing seriously wrong with mine except for all the various virii on it that are currently keeping me from being able to turn it on, and all the porn.) I could probably take it somewhere and have it stripped, though, that'd be okay. Moreover, I think the reason it's so hard to make a marriage last for most people is because of what selfish assholes we all tend to be. Young people today are raised with the notion that if they want something, all they need to do is make a big enough stink about it. If you ever get the chance, watch a young couple with a young child; it might be the... prolific part of the country I live in, but there's a good chance you'll see the mother begging her screaming, unruly toddler to behave and the father quietly ignoring the whole situation. The kid only knows to demand what he wants, the mother doesn't know how to do anything but demand what she wants because that's all it ever took for her, and the father thinks it's the mother's job and just does what he wants, which is not deal with the kid.
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:38 pm
I would have to agree with Henry. If you look at places in the world where women are oppressed, and at times in history when they've been in the same boat, you'll find the divorce rate is extremely low. It's not like they were doing anything particularly right. Society just expected people, particularly women, to deal with it if their spouse was abusive or neglective.
Indeed, I see nothing wrong with divorce. While some people do get divorced just because they're tired of the other person, or they aren't as appealing as they used to be, many more get divorces because they do not believe staying with that person is the best thing for themselves or their children. And, as Rhoswen said, it isn't as easy as most think to judge what someone will be like in 5 years time. As such, the higher the divorce rate, the better I feel about society.
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:16 pm
Huffon Halfmorph My parents have been married 29 years and they have no plans on divorce. Then again, as far as the high divorce rates go a good chunk of that is between couples who have not had children and just figure they shouldn't keep up something they don't enjoy. In that case why is it so bad to divorce? I could counter your, in my opinion annoyingly put together, argument that America is sex crazy and divorce happy with the argument that Americans feel free to make changes in their lives when needed and not locked into something that essentially is a religious bond in the first place even if they are not religious. As far as sex I can point out numerous other cultures that take sexuality to a much further degree than America. In fact America is one of the more sexually repressed countries that I can think of. As a culture America may be obsessed, but it is more with self repression in terms of sex. when you make a vow to stay with someone for the rest of your life "Til death do you part" that means you can't just change your mind because you feel you should make a change in your life, i for one think that someone who goes back on their word for no good reason is the lowest skum of the earth, if you don't think you are going to spend the rest of your life with someone, don't marry them, if there is question in your mind if they are the one person you will never leave, wait until you have no question about it. I think divorce is a horrible thing, and i feel sorry for peoplle who have to go through that, i am not belittling people who do get divorced, sometimes it's the only choice, but you should remember that vow you made!
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:21 pm
IchigoAmi Huffon Halfmorph My parents have been married 29 years and they have no plans on divorce. Then again, as far as the high divorce rates go a good chunk of that is between couples who have not had children and just figure they shouldn't keep up something they don't enjoy. In that case why is it so bad to divorce? I could counter your, in my opinion annoyingly put together, argument that America is sex crazy and divorce happy with the argument that Americans feel free to make changes in their lives when needed and not locked into something that essentially is a religious bond in the first place even if they are not religious. As far as sex I can point out numerous other cultures that take sexuality to a much further degree than America. In fact America is one of the more sexually repressed countries that I can think of. As a culture America may be obsessed, but it is more with self repression in terms of sex. when you make a vow to stay with someone for the rest of your life "Til death do you part" that means you can't just change your mind because you feel you should make a change in your life, i for one think that someone who goes back on their word for no good reason is the lowest skum of the earth, if you don't think you are going to spend the rest of your life with someone, don't marry them, if there is question in your mind if they are the one person you will never leave, wait until you have no question about it. I think divorce is a horrible thing, and i feel sorry for peoplle who have to go through that, i am not belittling people who do get divorced, sometimes it's the only choice, but you should remember that vow you made! Sorry to nitpick, but not everyone took that oath. There isn't exactly a certain method to wedding oaths.
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:43 am
Rhoswen Aegea Moreover, I think the reason it's so hard to make a marriage last for most people is because of what selfish assholes we all tend to be. Indeed. It's a very ME generation. It's difficult to survive as a couple when both people are expecting the other to satisfy them without having to return anything. As for the tantrums - be careful with that. How parents react out of doors may not be the same as how they react indoors. Personally, I can imagine how difficult it must be to calm a tantruming child in public (who may not be doing so because I've raised him badly - small children get very fussy when they are tired and you can't reason with them because a) they are tired, and b) they aren't adults and don't understand logic the same way we do). If I follow the books and let me child tantrum out as much as he wants, EVERYONE is going to be giving me dirty looks for letting my child scream and disturb them. A few people are even going to treat me like I'm abusing my child. If I try to shut my kid up by buying him a treat, I'm going to get all sorts of comments from people about how that's just rewarding the behavior. And you can imagine what would happen if I tried to silence the child through physical force. My point simply being that people are very critical of others and very upset when the business of others has the volume of a screaming child. Most people won't just understand that calming a tired and cranky child is difficult and let me at it. Most people won't stop and ask if there's some way to help, or try to distract the child. Being caught in public with a tired child puts you in a very awkward position. So this is all just to say that the parents you see may well do everything right when at home, but being in public is a whole different matter. IchigoAmi when you make a vow to stay with someone for the rest of your life "Til death do you part" that means you can't just change your mind because you feel you should make a change in your life, i for one think that someone who goes back on their word for no good reason is the lowest skum of the earth, if you don't think you are going to spend the rest of your life with someone, don't marry them, if there is question in your mind if they are the one person you will never leave, wait until you have no question about it. Honestly, I agree with you. Even if "till death do us part" isn't part of the actual speech (but honestly, I had a civil wedding and there was a version of that in there), it's still implied. This is a commitment to another person. IMO, too many people enter that commitment lightly. Just to give an example, nearly all of my divorced friends married because they were pregnant and it was "the thing to do." Pregnancy is a HORRIBLE reason to get married. I can certainly understand the cases where someone didn't become abusive until after the marriage. I can even understand the cases where signs of abuse were present beforehand, but the victim wanted to stick it out and see if their partner could be "fixed." But most divorces don't happen because of abuse. They happen because the couple "falls out of love." That's a stupid reason. There's a high that comes with doing something for the first time. A new relationship is full of passion. Why these people don't just live together for a while until that passion stage goes away and see if there is still love underneath before marrying is beyond me. To my mind, the scum of the earth people are the people who are convinced that there is no love but passion and will chase that high - dumping each bf/gf as soon as that stage starts to wane. HOLY CRAP! I do seem to love my wall of text, don't I?
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:32 pm
My parents' 25th anniversery is later this month. =D
I find that alot of my friends' parents are also divorsed. Both of my two best friends, their biological parents are divorced. Its eather that, or their parents were never married in the first place.
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Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:04 pm
Wyedg I have wondered the same thing. I think that America needs to take a lesson from other countries about family values and such.
I don't believe family values are what need to be taught, but a lesson that everyone you date isn't 'the one' because that makes people too quick to marry the person they're with.
Family Values are no longer the issue when you hate the person you are married too.
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:29 am
Sadly, my parents are divorced. I hate it, it causes alot of my depression. They didn't leave eachother because of not having enough sex or anything, they just fell out of love because my dad was always at work. Now I have a step-dad and my family is so...broken. We never do anything together, everyone but my dad and myself fight. I just want to be a family again.
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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:33 pm
It's tough for the kids, and I always felt really bad for kids with divorced parents because I saw how it negatively affected them. Thankfully I have some great counterexamples in my own family.
My parents have been married seventeen years this June.
Both sets of grandparents celebrated their 50th anniversaries last summer. For my dad's parents we had a banquet with all the kids and grandkids, and for my mom's parents we all took a weeklong trip to Florida.
One of my aunts and her husband celebrated their 25th anniversary 2 years ago.
^All were married only once and are Catholic, so they abstained from sex until after marriage. All were born and raised in America, all but my grandpa in the Midwest.
How's that for a rarity in American culture, eh?
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:47 pm
synzygus Almost every single American (non-Asian/Hispanic) I meet either in gaia or in real life have divorced parents. I'm still learning about this country, and I dont want this stereotype to crowd my mind. But kindly argue against me why does this country seem so sex crazy, divorce-happy and seemingly unsatisfied in its affluence. I've recently been to a golden aniversary of my (Asian) family friends.. it was one of the most touching and beautiful moments of their lives, it seems, with all the photographed memories and family vids shown on that yacht trip. Happy families together, one love till death do they part... But I bet Americans think this love ideal is crap, no? Billboards say, "Life is short, get a divorce." I wonder if this individualistic culture can find other souces of happiness besides sex 3nodding Your partner gets old, get a younger one twisted Oh what fun! (yes, I'm forcing you peeps to give a strong counter-argument basd on personal experience) rolleyes Actually this is happening all over the world. My husband and I have been married for 27 years and still going strong. Being best friends helps but we also have seperate interests. These interests do not include isolating ourselves with those who would try and come between us as a couple. It doesn't take as much hard work as everyone claims it does to make a marriage work. It pretty much takes care of itself as long as you respect the vows you made. What it takes most of is respecting the other person and learning to say I'm sorry and sincerely accept their apology as well. I love being married and would do it all over again with the same man if someone said I could go back and do so. But I sure wish I could be with him forever. Ones lifespan is simply too short.
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Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:10 am
Concerning marriage and divorce...I'd have to say that there exists a misunderstanding or a discrepancy in the beliefs of say...Asian cultures and the "ideal American" one.
My uncle put it thusly. Americans many times believe that when two people are married, they as the individuals are the only ones making the connection. Many times, there are not complete family gatherings including the wife's side and the husband's together as one, bonding and becoming stronger. Maybe, they invite the wife's family for Thanksgiving, the husband's for Christmas, and every once in awhile, get a the whole bunch together for a house-warming party or a 15th anniversary.
In the Indian culture, the FAMILIES are married, meaning ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE takes part in ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING. You meet all of the bride and groom's relatives on a regular basis if you're part of those families or even close friends of one.
It's much harder to break that sort of bond between 20 to 40 people than to break the bonds between only two.
Keep in mind, however, that my uncle is a bit old-schooled...but still pretty rockin'. =]
I don't mean to say that the American culture is doomed because of divorce, but there is obviously some differences between American culture and those of the world, or even the individual ones that make up this melting pot of the American Experience.
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Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:04 am
We should remember too that as a country and society we Americans are just a baby. A big strong powerful spoiled baby. That being said, I have been married for 21 years. Is he my "soulmate" - probably not. We are polar opposites in many ways. But we love each other and put up with each other and respect the promises we made to each other. We do things together, we do things apart. We are not joined at the hip but at the heart and trust is there. And actually - avoiding our families has helped strengthen our marriage! We have one wonderful child - our blessing, and she also strengthens our bond because we made our life about her as soon as we had her. There is no room for selfishness in a marriage or in parenthood.
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