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 Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:08 pm
Scribblemouse I.Am You sure do stare an awful lot. And it doesn't sound like a big jump to me. If you're a woman who doesn't want it to be on public record that you are getting an abortion, say if you or your mother/other relative is a prominent member in the local government or a big business, you're not going to want it on official record that you had an abortion. And if you've got enough money, you would probably be willing to bribe the abortionist to make sure your political opposition, or the tabloids, or whatever else, don't get that information. Most people don't want to be recorded as having an abortion ebcause their family would give them hassle, not because their relatives are some sort of bigshot who needs their reputation squeaky-clean. Hokay, I find it somewhat amusing that I'm sitting here trying to imply that the people who are going to be bribing people are the ones who have a lot of money, and have a lot to risk by having this sort of thing on record, and you're attacking me because I wasn't saying that every woman who stepped into the clinic would bribe the "doctor". Because, honestly? I have no intention of searching through public records, trying to find information on my daughter. But public records on, say, Laura Bush? Those things are going to be rifled through left and right by tabloids. Quote: Such hassle from their relatives could include abuse. I just use the stare emote a lot because that's usually the face I'm pulling when I read things like this stare If I ever had an abotion, I'd have it for medical reasons, but according to this, it would get put up as a death certificate or whatever and anyone who came across this information wouldn't know the whole story of why I had come to such a decision, and could well give me hassle. But I don't live in America, so I should be safe from something so ridiculous. :/ That's exactly what I was saying. You stare a lot. It's a little weird, and it gives off the impression that you simply don't like anything I have to say. "Came across?" Public records aren't exactly left laying about where everyone goes. For that matter, I have no idea what goes on public record, or where I could find out about it. Do you? For that matter, why would I even care? The only people I know of who care are, again, tabloid magazines looking for sensationalist stories on celebrities. And getting "Big Brother" from requiring death certificates for (Shocking!) dead people, which are really hardly any use to anyone who is not interested in a neutral government statistics of abortion? Talk about your slippery slope...
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Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:53 am
don't death certificates need a name?
wouldn't this require the mother to name the child she chooses to kill?
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Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:46 am
I.Am Scribblemouse I.Am You sure do stare an awful lot. And it doesn't sound like a big jump to me. If you're a woman who doesn't want it to be on public record that you are getting an abortion, say if you or your mother/other relative is a prominent member in the local government or a big business, you're not going to want it on official record that you had an abortion. And if you've got enough money, you would probably be willing to bribe the abortionist to make sure your political opposition, or the tabloids, or whatever else, don't get that information. Most people don't want to be recorded as having an abortion ebcause their family would give them hassle, not because their relatives are some sort of bigshot who needs their reputation squeaky-clean. Hokay, I find it somewhat amusing that I'm sitting here trying to imply that the people who are going to be bribing people are the ones who have a lot of money, and have a lot to risk by having this sort of thing on record, and you're attacking me because I wasn't saying that every woman who stepped into the clinic would bribe the "doctor". Because, honestly? I have no intention of searching through public records, trying to find information on my daughter. But public records on, say, Laura Bush? Those things are going to be rifled through left and right by tabloids. Quote: Such hassle from their relatives could include abuse. I just use the stare emote a lot because that's usually the face I'm pulling when I read things like this stare If I ever had an abotion, I'd have it for medical reasons, but according to this, it would get put up as a death certificate or whatever and anyone who came across this information wouldn't know the whole story of why I had come to such a decision, and could well give me hassle. But I don't live in America, so I should be safe from something so ridiculous. :/ That's exactly what I was saying. You stare a lot. It's a little weird, and it gives off the impression that you simply don't like anything I have to say. "Came across?" Public records aren't exactly left laying about where everyone goes. For that matter, I have no idea what goes on public record, or where I could find out about it. Do you? For that matter, why would I even care? The only people I know of who care are, again, tabloid magazines looking for sensationalist stories on celebrities. And getting "Big Brother" from requiring death certificates for (Shocking!) dead people, which are really hardly any use to anyone who is not interested in a neutral government statistics of abortion? Talk about your slippery slope... First off, I'm not 'attacking' you. I'm presenting another point of view. Stop taking this so personally. You seem only concerned with people who have enough money and the need to bribe abortionists. Most people don;t. Most people won't have to worry about tabloids, they'll have to worry about their relatives getting on their case. Then there's that sick 'Pro-Life' group harassing workers at clinics, going through their garbage to dig up dirt on them. Imagine what a field day they'd have if they had access to these death certificates, and could hound every woman who's had an abortion. These kind of people wouldn't care about the woman's reason - she could have been raped, she could have had to have it for medical reasons - they'll just harass her like anyone else. Funny, I thought 'Public Record' meant just that - the documents are public, anyone can read them if they want. I didn't think I said 'Death certificates for abortions will bring about Big Brother'. I was saying that it's reminiscent of Big Brother, such ridiculous attention-to-detail. It's not necessary, it's an invasion of privacy, and it's a waste of money.
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Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:42 pm
Scribblemouse First off, I'm not 'attacking' you. I'm presenting another point of view. Stop taking this so personally. You're attacking my position, you're attacking me, whatever. Quote: You seem only concerned with people who have enough money and the need to bribe abortionists. Most people don;t. Most people won't have to worry about tabloids, they'll have to worry about their relatives getting on their case. Then there's that sick 'Pro-Life' group harassing workers at clinics, going through their garbage to dig up dirt on them. Imagine what a field day they'd have if they had access to these death certificates, and could hound every woman who's had an abortion. These kind of people wouldn't care about the woman's reason - she could have been raped, she could have had to have it for medical reasons - they'll just harass her like anyone else. You make my eye twitch, woman. The first part is exactly what I was saying; Your family is hardly likely to go searching through the public records to find out whether you've had an abortion or not, unless they already have reason to suspect. As for the second part, that's a good point and I hadn't thought about that. Although, at this point, I would like to point out that I'm on the "This is a waste of time and money side," and the only point I was arguing was that this could potentially lead to abortion being more profitable than it was before. So whether some radicals would use this badly or not is irrelevant. Quote: Funny, I thought 'Public Record' meant just that - the documents are public, anyone can read them if they want. Exactly. -Can-. That doesn't mean -do-. As I said, I don't even know how I would go about reading the public record. Quote: I didn't think I said 'Death certificates for abortions will bring about Big Brother'. I was saying that it's reminiscent of Big Brother, such ridiculous attention-to-detail. It's not necessary, it's an invasion of privacy, and it's a waste of money. I don't see as how it's any more of an invasion of privacy than regular death or birth certificates are. :/
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Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:20 pm
I.Am Scribblemouse First off, I'm not 'attacking' you. I'm presenting another point of view. Stop taking this so personally. You're attacking my position, you're attacking me, whatever. Quote: You seem only concerned with people who have enough money and the need to bribe abortionists. Most people don;t. Most people won't have to worry about tabloids, they'll have to worry about their relatives getting on their case. Then there's that sick 'Pro-Life' group harassing workers at clinics, going through their garbage to dig up dirt on them. Imagine what a field day they'd have if they had access to these death certificates, and could hound every woman who's had an abortion. These kind of people wouldn't care about the woman's reason - she could have been raped, she could have had to have it for medical reasons - they'll just harass her like anyone else. You make my eye twitch, woman. The first part is exactly what I was saying; Your family is hardly likely to go searching through the public records to find out whether you've had an abortion or not, unless they already have reason to suspect. As for the second part, that's a good point and I hadn't thought about that. Although, at this point, I would like to point out that I'm on the "This is a waste of time and money side," and the only point I was arguing was that this could potentially lead to abortion being more profitable than it was before. So whether some radicals would use this badly or not is irrelevant. Quote: Funny, I thought 'Public Record' meant just that - the documents are public, anyone can read them if they want. Exactly. -Can-. That doesn't mean -do-. As I said, I don't even know how I would go about reading the public record. Quote: I didn't think I said 'Death certificates for abortions will bring about Big Brother'. I was saying that it's reminiscent of Big Brother, such ridiculous attention-to-detail. It's not necessary, it's an invasion of privacy, and it's a waste of money. I don't see as how it's any more of an invasion of privacy than regular death or birth certificates are. :/ It's not exactly a regular death certificate now, is it? I'm sure there are plenty of whack-job families out there quite happy to wade into public record (wherever it may be) to make sure their daughter hasn't had an abortion.
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Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:32 pm
MiNdCaNdY don't death certificates need a name? wouldn't this require the mother to name the child she chooses to kill?
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:26 am
I'm just going to restate "I'm on your side, even if it's for different reasons," ask, "Why are we fighting about how valid my reasons are?" and end argument.
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:27 am
I'm totally for it, I mean think about it, all deathcertificites are posted in the obtiuaires, therefore exposing who got an abortion, so peopel will begin to feel ashame and mayby the total number of babies being killed bye abortion will go down beacause of social reasons. I'm completely for it. ^.^
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:32 pm
kikikeke I'm totally for it, I mean think about it, all deathcertificites are posted in the obtiuaires, therefore exposing who got an abortion, so peopel will begin to feel ashame and mayby the total number of babies being killed bye abortion will go down beacause of social reasons. I'm completely for it. ^.^ Oh great, that's even worse. Then any anti-abortion nutcases who are so inclined can easily find out the woman's name and hassle her.
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:43 pm
while i understand where you're coming from scribble, and i don't exactly agree with posting their names in the news paper, there's a simple way to avoid that:
don't kill people.
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:28 pm
MiNdCaNdY while i understand where you're coming from scribble, and i don't exactly agree with posting their names in the news paper, there's a simple way to avoid that: don't kill people. No matter what you believe, do you really think women who've had abortions deserve such abuse? Clinics have had their windows shot out, bombed, and an abortionist was shot. Do you think people wouldn't act this way towards the women going to these clinics? They would probably get letter-bombs, their neighbours put against them, and if they already have kids, their kids will probably be bullied by equally mindless people at school. I may not agree with someone's decision to have an abortion, but I don't think they deserve the possibility of that kind of abuse.
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:32 pm
Scribblemouse MiNdCaNdY while i understand where you're coming from scribble, and i don't exactly agree with posting their names in the news paper, there's a simple way to avoid that: don't kill people. No matter what you believe, do you really think women who've had abortions deserve such abuse? Clinics have had their windows shot out, bombed, and an abortionist was shot. Do you think people wouldn't act this way towards the women going to these clinics? They would probably get letter-bombs, their neighbours put against them, and if they already have kids, their kids will probably be bullied by equally mindless people at school. I may not agree with someone's decision to have an abortion, but I don't think they deserve the possibility of that kind of abuse. Ditto. I don't think ANYONE deserves that kind of abuse. And again...if that kind of information is public than I am certain there would be bribes. It doesn't take a big bribe. I'm not talking hundreds of dollars. Even for those people that think this would bring women to justice by showing everyone they abort, it wouldn't work because it would only end up showing the information of the poorest of women, or women who wouldn't mind that information being published in the first place. Also...not all death certificates are posted in the obituaries anyway. I don't see this reducing abortion in any way shape or form. I do see a potential for more money going to abortionists, more underreporting of abortion (which would actually work for the pro-life crowd, but still), and women being exposed to danger.
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:50 pm
Scribblemouse I.Am Scribblemouse First off, I'm not 'attacking' you. I'm presenting another point of view. Stop taking this so personally. You're attacking my position, you're attacking me, whatever. Quote: You seem only concerned with people who have enough money and the need to bribe abortionists. Most people don;t. Most people won't have to worry about tabloids, they'll have to worry about their relatives getting on their case. Then there's that sick 'Pro-Life' group harassing workers at clinics, going through their garbage to dig up dirt on them. Imagine what a field day they'd have if they had access to these death certificates, and could hound every woman who's had an abortion. These kind of people wouldn't care about the woman's reason - she could have been raped, she could have had to have it for medical reasons - they'll just harass her like anyone else. You make my eye twitch, woman. The first part is exactly what I was saying; Your family is hardly likely to go searching through the public records to find out whether you've had an abortion or not, unless they already have reason to suspect. As for the second part, that's a good point and I hadn't thought about that. Although, at this point, I would like to point out that I'm on the "This is a waste of time and money side," and the only point I was arguing was that this could potentially lead to abortion being more profitable than it was before. So whether some radicals would use this badly or not is irrelevant. Quote: Funny, I thought 'Public Record' meant just that - the documents are public, anyone can read them if they want. Exactly. -Can-. That doesn't mean -do-. As I said, I don't even know how I would go about reading the public record. Quote: I didn't think I said 'Death certificates for abortions will bring about Big Brother'. I was saying that it's reminiscent of Big Brother, such ridiculous attention-to-detail. It's not necessary, it's an invasion of privacy, and it's a waste of money. I don't see as how it's any more of an invasion of privacy than regular death or birth certificates are. :/ It's not exactly a regular death certificate now, is it? I'm sure there are plenty of whack-job families out there quite happy to wade into public record (wherever it may be) to make sure their daughter hasn't had an abortion. is it not a parent's right to know? at least until she's 18, legally, she shouldn't be doing that anyway. if you need a parent's signature to get a freaking asprin, i god damn hope you need something to get an abortion.
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:40 pm
divineseraph Scribblemouse I.Am Scribblemouse First off, I'm not 'attacking' you. I'm presenting another point of view. Stop taking this so personally. You're attacking my position, you're attacking me, whatever. Quote: You seem only concerned with people who have enough money and the need to bribe abortionists. Most people don;t. Most people won't have to worry about tabloids, they'll have to worry about their relatives getting on their case. Then there's that sick 'Pro-Life' group harassing workers at clinics, going through their garbage to dig up dirt on them. Imagine what a field day they'd have if they had access to these death certificates, and could hound every woman who's had an abortion. These kind of people wouldn't care about the woman's reason - she could have been raped, she could have had to have it for medical reasons - they'll just harass her like anyone else. You make my eye twitch, woman. The first part is exactly what I was saying; Your family is hardly likely to go searching through the public records to find out whether you've had an abortion or not, unless they already have reason to suspect. As for the second part, that's a good point and I hadn't thought about that. Although, at this point, I would like to point out that I'm on the "This is a waste of time and money side," and the only point I was arguing was that this could potentially lead to abortion being more profitable than it was before. So whether some radicals would use this badly or not is irrelevant. Quote: Funny, I thought 'Public Record' meant just that - the documents are public, anyone can read them if they want. Exactly. -Can-. That doesn't mean -do-. As I said, I don't even know how I would go about reading the public record. Quote: I didn't think I said 'Death certificates for abortions will bring about Big Brother'. I was saying that it's reminiscent of Big Brother, such ridiculous attention-to-detail. It's not necessary, it's an invasion of privacy, and it's a waste of money. I don't see as how it's any more of an invasion of privacy than regular death or birth certificates are. :/ It's not exactly a regular death certificate now, is it? I'm sure there are plenty of whack-job families out there quite happy to wade into public record (wherever it may be) to make sure their daughter hasn't had an abortion. is it not a parent's right to know? at least until she's 18, legally, she shouldn't be doing that anyway. if you need a parent's signature to get a freaking asprin, i god damn hope you need something to get an abortion. If a parent's signiature is needed, could it not go the other way and a situation coudl arise where the parents wanted the daughter to have an abortion, but the daughter did not, so - what would be her say in it? Do children sign things to get an aspirin, saying they want it too?
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:30 pm
In a word, no. It would not go the other way around. I'm sure most pro-choicers would have a problem with that as well.
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