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 Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:09 pm
ReiDuck RMarques Question! Why is this in the chatterbox? Because a debate this simple, which has an insanely obvious answer for anyone who's willing to pay attention to contemporary science, doesn't belong anywhere else? True enough, I suppose.
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:20 pm
Tis not a choice, 'cause you don't go "Oh, I think I'll be homosexual today :'D "
It might be a hormone thing, but then again, I'm not too sure.
'cause some men could have more estrogen than the buff muscle guy but could be straight
I've always thought of it to be in teh genetics somehow...
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:41 pm
Lykus My Conscience I'm still trying to figure out how these scenarios apply. Some people have heterosexual tendencies early in life then later on they become either bisexual or homosexual. Some people have homosexual tendencies and either becomes bisexual or heterosexual. It depends on how early in life you're talking about, and what constitutes "tendencies." If we're talking about ages 5-7 and playing with "girl" or "boy" toys, I wouldn't really consider that because there's no significant correlation (I think) between what kind of toys a child plays with and what the child's sexual orientation is. If we're talking about early teenage years, then it's possible that the child just has out of control hormones that may be screwing up the ability to recognize attraction and that these hormones will resolve themselves later on. I mean, that didn't happen to me, but I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility. I won't claim definitively to know what it is, but I sure as hell know it's NOT a damn choice. This is why it kind of belongs in the main sub-forum. This is the main part of the debate which most people don't confront.
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:41 pm
Over anything else I believe that homosexuality is a subconscience choice. Sort of like a preferance of beef over chicken. It isn't like you wanted it that way, it's just a preferance.
But the hormonal imbalances make a lot of sense. The problem I have with this theory as well as the genetic theory comes from personal experience. I know twins, identical twins. One is straight and one is bisexual. Just as one of them loves bananas (no pun intended, and it's the straight one anyway) while the other one hates them. At one point, these twins were the same egg until it split causing them to be genetically identical. I cannot fathom, if they were the same person at one point why one of them would be born gay, or in this case bisexual, while the other one wasn't. And if they were genetically identical, I don't see why one of them would have such a different balance of hormones, unless that has to do with the environment.
Of course the one who says he's bisexual may just be confused and end up out-growing it...in which case I'd probably give more credit to the hormonal theory.
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:05 am
Jincks Over anything else I believe that homosexuality is a subconscience choice. Sort of like a preferance of beef over chicken. It isn't like you wanted it that way, it's just a preferance.
But the hormonal imbalances make a lot of sense. The problem I have with this theory as well as the genetic theory comes from personal experience. I know twins, identical twins. One is straight and one is bisexual. Just as one of them loves bananas (no pun intended, and it's the straight one anyway) while the other one hates them. At one point, these twins were the same egg until it split causing them to be genetically identical. I cannot fathom, if they were the same person at one point why one of them would be born gay, or in this case bisexual, while the other one wasn't. And if they were genetically identical, I don't see why one of them would have such a different balance of hormones, unless that has to do with the environment.
Of course the one who says he's bisexual may just be confused and end up out-growing it...in which case I'd probably give more credit to the hormonal theory. Now that your brought that up, homosexuality has been the most studied in twins. Here is one study: http://www.tim-taylor.com/papers/twin_studies/studies.htmlNot every identical twin has the same characteristics as the other.
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:40 am
What they should do is a study on gay men that get amnesia. Even though it sounds kinda cruel and probably will never be possible, someone could set them up in a completly different envioment with no knowledge of his past life. Then see if he will still be gay or end up leaning towards women. Unrealistic, but it would open up a lot of doors to find out if it is something you're born with or a characteristic.
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:30 am
foxpaws What they should do is a study on gay men that get amnesia. Even though it sounds kinda cruel and probably will never be possible, someone could set them up in a completly different envioment with no knowledge of his past life. Then see if he will still be gay or end up leaning towards women. Unrealistic, but it would open up a lot of doors to find out if it is something you're born with or a characteristic. I don't think the committee of ethics would approve of this xd
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:35 am
foxpaws What they should do is a study on gay men that get amnesia. Even though it sounds kinda cruel and probably will never be possible, someone could set them up in a completly different envioment with no knowledge of his past life. Then see if he will still be gay or end up leaning towards women. Unrealistic, but it would open up a lot of doors to find out if it is something you're born with or a characteristic. Amnesia like what you see in movies doesn't last for very long when it occurs. That kind of study would be a huge flop.
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:08 pm
My Conscience foxpaws What they should do is a study on gay men that get amnesia. Even though it sounds kinda cruel and probably will never be possible, someone could set them up in a completly different envioment with no knowledge of his past life. Then see if he will still be gay or end up leaning towards women. Unrealistic, but it would open up a lot of doors to find out if it is something you're born with or a characteristic. I don't think the committee of ethics would approve of this xd Damn you Committee of Ethics!! Always holding back science because of "Morals" and "OMG, IS THAT LEGAL?". They just won't let us be!! gonk
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:10 pm
Omnileech foxpaws What they should do is a study on gay men that get amnesia. Even though it sounds kinda cruel and probably will never be possible, someone could set them up in a completly different envioment with no knowledge of his past life. Then see if he will still be gay or end up leaning towards women. Unrealistic, but it would open up a lot of doors to find out if it is something you're born with or a characteristic. Amnesia like what you see in movies doesn't last for very long when it occurs. That kind of study would be a huge flop. But in the time of when he doesn't remember, we could see what he'd do. Though it will probably go bad in the end when he wakes up in the morning and sees a girl next to him. xd
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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:43 am
foxpaws My Conscience foxpaws What they should do is a study on gay men that get amnesia. Even though it sounds kinda cruel and probably will never be possible, someone could set them up in a completly different envioment with no knowledge of his past life. Then see if he will still be gay or end up leaning towards women. Unrealistic, but it would open up a lot of doors to find out if it is something you're born with or a characteristic. I don't think the committee of ethics would approve of this xd Damn you Committee of Ethics!! Always holding back science because of "Morals" and "OMG, IS THAT LEGAL?". They just won't let us be!! gonk Ethics? What's that? I totally support this.
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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:41 pm
Jincks Over anything else I believe that homosexuality is a subconscience choice. Sort of like a preferance of beef over chicken. It isn't like you wanted it that way, it's just a preferance.
But the hormonal imbalances make a lot of sense. The problem I have with this theory as well as the genetic theory comes from personal experience. I know twins, identical twins. One is straight and one is bisexual. Just as one of them loves bananas (no pun intended, and it's the straight one anyway) while the other one hates them. At one point, these twins were the same egg until it split causing them to be genetically identical. I cannot fathom, if they were the same person at one point why one of them would be born gay, or in this case bisexual, while the other one wasn't. And if they were genetically identical, I don't see why one of them would have such a different balance of hormones, unless that has to do with the environment.
Of course the one who says he's bisexual may just be confused and end up out-growing it...in which case I'd probably give more credit to the hormonal theory. While you do make sense, subconscious choice seems a little contradicting, don't you think? Subconscious implies that we have no control over it, while choice implies that we do. Ehh, I'm just nitpicking. sweatdrop
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:33 pm
Well, whenever I'm accused of having "chosen" my orientation I simply reply:
"The only choice I ever made was not to live in the closet. The rest was God's doing."
I think it might be somewhat genetic, as my great-grandmother was bisexual as was an aunt. The study they did about how many boys a mother has and the likelyhood the next will be gay seems to indicate it has to do with brain chemistry at least in part. I admit one of my fears is that if there is indeed a "gene" than with genetic engineering people may try to eliminate it. It seems most people agree it's a combination of factors.
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:53 pm
Hmm, interesting question.
I've believe it's not a choice. You don't just wake up one day and go "I feel like being a lesbian!" Well, some people might, but most don't.
So I guess it either comes down to genetics or hormonal. I think it could be a combination because we see in a lot of families gay children from straight parents and visa versa. The hormonal thing makes a lot more sense in that case then.
Of course there's that whole long nature vs nurture thing.
There's also a theory that sexualtiy is more of a specturm than a absolute definition, which I really like. The idea is that peopel can be heterosexuals with homosexual tendencies. Like, I think women are more physically attractive than men, but I would never date a woman just because... I like men. You know? I don't think most people are 100% gay or straight.
And that also kinda suggest nature vs nurture.
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Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:32 am
Hormones for sure. I can't give you sources right now, but I know I've heard multiple times that they have done a study of sex hormones in homosexuals and heterosexuals, and there has been evidence in a shift of balance between "normal" levels of sex hormones in homosexuals. I.e. a gay man may have more estrogen than a straight man.
But don't forget that traumatic experiences can shift your hormonal balance. So I think sometimes the experiences in one's life can change one's sexuality, but those have to be pretty severe.
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