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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:24 pm
Cougar Draven SoundDoctrine Cougar Draven SoundDoctrine Cougar Draven I'm curious. What religion can honestly not need to spread their message? Judaism doesn't go out of their way to find converts, and orthodox Jews sometimes discourage people who want to join Judaism, and religions in which membership is inherited, such as Zoastrianism and Druze. True enough, but just because they don't go get new members doesn't mean they don't need them. I usually use the Shaker sect to reference that point. Why would they need more members if they only want people of their own culture to be in their religion? I do not understand how the Shakers reference your point. Could you clarify that? The Shaker sect was very specific about their celibacy, and at the same time, didn't go out of their way to attract new members. As such, their membership dwindled to nothing in a very few generations. They needed new members...but didn't go get them. But who's to say they needed them. I mean, just because their religion died, if they did not want to go out and get new members, then obviously, they themseleves did not feel like they needed them, and that since their religion is basically dead, and the four or so that are left arn't doing any major outreach, then they must be content with how it is. Quote: SoundDoctrine Quote: SoundDoctrine Quote: Somewhat. I always take Christianity as a whole, not as a denominated strata. I was baptized a Roman Catholic, and until I left the faith officially, oh, six or eight months ago, I was a pretty poor Christian, but I've always thought that the denomination of the faith is one of the things that actually contributed to my loss of faith. If Christianity actually had been about following Christ first, we wouldn't have stopped to argue with one another about how to do so. That's not true because people interpret and understand the teachings of Christ differently. Yes, they do, but as I recall, Christ's teachings did not include "Denominate the faith into many different forms, rivaling the strata in the Earth, and sayeth unto others 'Follow unto me, or burn in hell.'" No, Christ's teachings did not include any of that... Well, there we go. SoundDoctrine Quote: I am not talking about any denomination specifically, but I will say that the focus shifted. I know some Christians, don't exactly remember their denominations, who actually believe that their denomination is the only one going to hell. Hell? Or did you mean heaven? I'm confused. I'm a moron. Sorry, I did mean heaven. As far as I am aware, no denomination of Christianity holds that its followers go to hell. I need to recheck my typing. lol It's okay. I get what're your saying. I call those Christians the bigot ones. I never really pay any attention to them. They just happen to soil the name of Christianity. Quote: SoundDoctrine Quote: And then there's the Jehovah's Witnessess...I implore, how can a denomination that holds that Paradise can only hold 10,000 honestly need more people? That's the one exception to my above case, as far as I know. The thing is, you asserted that Christianity is no different from any other religion,which it is, since we have a proclaimation with Christ to spread the gospel, while other religions have no desire to spread their message, and you asserted that it is a means to control those who are weak of mind, and a means to implement those who are strong in it. This assertion is also not true because there are some Christians who don't even go to church, some Christians who don't go out of their way to proslyetize, or to be implemented, some Christians don't fellowship with other Christians, some Christians who have been utilized as pastors may not be all that charismatic, and some Christians who have not been utilized are very strong in mind. The basis of Christianity is following Christ. It is not to spread the word, or to condemn others to hell. Some Christians, whom other Christians might not even call Christians, do not believe people who don't believe in Jesus are going to hell. I have found both of your assertions to be hasty generalizations, and you have not yet said anything to make me think that they were anything other than hasty generalizations based on your personal experiences. Which is, of course, a distinct personality. I've been jaded, and I tend to react quickly. If I am forced to concede my points...oh well. It'll refine my knowledge, for one. 'kay! ^_^ Quote: SoundDoctrine Quote: SoundDoctrine Quote: Perhaps my view of Christianity is a little jaded, for the reasons I've already stated. I issued an open challenge to any and every Gaian Christian to try to convert me back to the faith. I doubt it'll happen, but I'll admit that I'm a jaded cynic. I just don't think your whole view of Christianity to be jaded. It's fine to be jaded against the Roman Catholic church based on your experiences, but it's not right to take what you know about them and apply it to every Christian by saying Christianity without being specific about which Christians you are speaking of. I personally am unfamiliar with many denominations, so I wouldn't say anything is "Christian" or that the base of Christianity is something, or that Christianity does such and such if whatever I was saying did not center around the Law of Agape. I wouldn't try and convert you. I realize that faith is a personal thing and I don't think I'm knowledgable enough in the Christian religion to persuade you to it. But I jut want you to know that just because you didn't like the Roman Catholic church, it doesn't mean that you wouldn't like any other denomination of Christian out there. It's not just the Roman Catholics. It's also the Nazarenes, United Methodists, and some Lutherans. Not you personally, nor my roommate, but others I know. I left Catholicism long ago, and moved first to the Church of the Nazarene, and from there to the United Methodist Church. Neither was any better, nor any worse overall, but it seems to me that what will eventually happen is infighting between the denominations. What about Baptists? There are not only fundamentalist Baptists, but Northen Baptists, Missionary Baptists, etc. What about Pentecostals? There's the United Pentecostal Church, The Assemblies of God, the Church of God in Christ, the New Testament Church, etc. What about the Protestant Episcopal Church? You mentioned the Missouri Synod Lutheran sect, but what about the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America? What about Presbyterians? The list just goes on and on... Secondly, I don't imagine fighting. There's just debate over who's right. I just can't personally imagine anything physical happening, what with Jesus saying to love our enemies.Fighting in the name of Christianity has always been a mystery to me anyways. In three words: too many denominations. But hey, all that means is lots and lots of choices! If you don't agree with one, move on to the next one until you find one you like! Yay for Christianity! 4laugh Quote: And once again, I apologize for my typing. I didn't mean physical fighting...more like fierce debate. No problem. There is debate going on, but I wouldn't call it fierce. It's like kinda a silent thing, ususally, Christians react well to one another, partly in thanks to this sort of unity movement going around the church currently. Many denominations are preaching unity in the Christian faith and they preach about reaching out to fellow Christians and ignoring denominational differences. Of course, other denominations don't agree with this movement, because some denominations may be conflicting on a point of view that another may hold essential for good Christian life, and these differences may be enough to call one denomination not a Christian one, or it may be enough to call that denomination a cult. I've seen it happen many times. I often hear that Catholics are not Christians, and that the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are cult groups. I personally am not for the total,"Rar! You're stupid and you're not Christian!!!!" thing, but I think that a person has the right to voice their opinions and disagreements against another person. I also think that the people who are total "Christian-crazies" are the minority, and not the majority of Christians. Based on my personal experience within Christianity, I find the Christians who respond to people in love, no matter what denomination or even separate religion they may be a part of, are the majority. These Christians will meet other Christians, find out their denominations, and still will treat one another as fellow members of the body of Christ, and that's how I feel it should be. Quote: And you're right. Fighting in the name of any god or goddess is a waste of faith. Muchly. 3nodding
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:47 am
SoundDoctrine But who's to say they needed them. I mean, just because their religion died, if they did not want to go out and get new members, then obviously, they themseleves did not feel like they needed them, and that since their religion is basically dead, and the four or so that are left arn't doing any major outreach, then they must be content with how it is. I guess you've got a point, but it just doesn't make sense for a group of people to just let their beliefs die out like that. *checks self* Duh. We're talking humans here. "Sense" does not compute. Abort/Retry/Fail? FSoundDoctrine lol It's okay. I get what're your saying. I call those Christians the bigot ones. I never really pay any attention to them. They just happen to soil the name of Christianity. Indeed. Although, and this is the amusing part to me...my roommate is a Christian, but still accepts the fact that he's going to hell. It makes me wonder...could you consider Satan a Christian, in the strangest sense of the word? SoundDoctrine But hey, all that means is lots and lots of choices! If you don't agree with one, move on to the next one until you find one you like! Yay for Christianity! 4laugh Again, not the biggest fan of it...but yeah, sure. Those who choose their own faith within the followers of Christ sure seem happy with it, so I'll agree on that point. SoundDoctrine Snipped for brevity. - Cougar Ironically, a few years ago, I ran into someone like that while I was in the United Methodist Church who told me that because I wasn't part of his denomination, that I was going to hell. I punched him. And then told him "Hell, I could've told you that six years ago." I've always thought that, yeah, they look at things differently, but it all boils down to the same s**t in the end, so why bother separating? Even when I was between denominations, and for about two years before I forsook my faith in God, I considered myself a nondenominational Christian, for the reason that I'm not about to force myself to choose between the lesser of two goods when I can just worship God in my own way. It worked for me until recently.
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:32 am
Cougar Draven SoundDoctrine But who's to say they needed them. I mean, just because their religion died, if they did not want to go out and get new members, then obviously, they themseleves did not feel like they needed them, and that since their religion is basically dead, and the four or so that are left arn't doing any major outreach, then they must be content with how it is. I guess you've got a point, but it just doesn't make sense for a group of people to just let their beliefs die out like that. *checks self* Duh. We're talking humans here. "Sense" does not compute. Abort/Retry/Fail? F lol What makes sense for some doesn't make sense to others. Quote: SoundDoctrine lol It's okay. I get what're your saying. I call those Christians the bigot ones. I never really pay any attention to them. They just happen to soil the name of Christianity. Indeed. Although, and this is the amusing part to me...my roommate is a Christian, but still accepts the fact that he's going to hell. Does he really believe that he's going to hell, or does he just humor the people who think he is? Quote: It makes me wonder...could you consider Satan a Christian, in the strangest sense of the word? Not at all. Even the bigot ones try to worship God with all their heart, soul, and mind, and sometimes they try to love their neighbor, but other times I wonder if I should even call them Christian. A lot of times it really doesn't seem like they follow Christ. Satan, at least as he's portrayed in the Bible, does not love God with all his heart, soul, and mind, and tempting humanity like crazy isn't loving us at all. He tempted Christ, he didn't follow Him. SoundDoctrine octrine"] But hey, all that means is lots and lots of choices! If you don't agree with one, move on to the next one until you find one you like! Yay for Christianity! 4laugh Again, not the biggest fan of it...but yeah, sure. Those who choose their own faith within the followers of Christ sure seem happy with it, so I'll agree on that point. I was being facetious. ^_^ Quote: SoundDoctrine Snipped for brevity. - Cougar Ironically, a few years ago, I ran into someone like that while I was in the United Methodist Church who told me that because I wasn't part of his denomination, that I was going to hell. I punched him. And then told him "Hell, I could've told you that six years ago." There's a little joke that's overused in Christianity and it goes something like this. The Lutherans went into heaven and met Peter. Peter was showing them around heaven, and when they were passing a castle, Peter goes,"Shh!!! Be quiet! That's where the Methodists live and they think they're the only ones up here." Quote: I've always thought that, yeah, they look at things differently, but it all boils down to the same s**t in the end, so why bother separating? Even when I was between denominations, and for about two years before I forsook my faith in God, I considered myself a nondenominational Christian, for the reason that I'm not about to force myself to choose between the lesser of two goods when I can just worship God in my own way. It worked for me until recently. It's cool to be nondenominational and worship God your own way. House Churches are the new trend in Christianity. Just some people feel that they cannpt lead themselves, or cannot understand the Bible themselves, or they feel that a particular denomination fits their beliefs perfectly and they feel like they would like to fellowship with that denomination. Some people take their belief in the Trinity very seriously, others take the sacrements like Baptism and Communion very seriously,so they only go to their denomination and not any others. Faith in itself is a personal thing, so people just do what they want. Since there's so many things to choose from to do in Christianity, there's many different Christians who do different things.
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:09 am
Generally speaking...
Dogma's don't really make the religion. Key figure heads and goals do.
But I suppose even that could vary by Christian.
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:12 pm
SoundDoctrine Cougar Draven SoundDoctrine But who's to say they needed them. I mean, just because their religion died, if they did not want to go out and get new members, then obviously, they themseleves did not feel like they needed them, and that since their religion is basically dead, and the four or so that are left arn't doing any major outreach, then they must be content with how it is. I guess you've got a point, but it just doesn't make sense for a group of people to just let their beliefs die out like that. *checks self* Duh. We're talking humans here. "Sense" does not compute. Abort/Retry/Fail? F lol What makes sense for some doesn't make sense to others. Ain't that the truth. But, then, I find that what makes "sense" to most people just doesn't transpose into my brain. SoundDoctrine Cougar Draven SoundDoctrine lol It's okay. I get what're your saying. I call those Christians the bigot ones. I never really pay any attention to them. They just happen to soil the name of Christianity. Indeed. Although, and this is the amusing part to me...my roommate is a Christian, but still accepts the fact that he's going to hell. Does he really believe that he's going to hell, or does he just humor the people who think he is? He fancies that he'll take the throne from Samael himself when he goes, and that I can have Charon's spot. SoundDoctrine Quote: It makes me wonder...could you consider Satan a Christian, in the strangest sense of the word? Not at all. Even the bigot ones try to worship God with all their heart, soul, and mind, and sometimes they try to love their neighbor, but other times I wonder if I should even call them Christian. A lot of times it really doesn't seem like they follow Christ. Satan, at least as he's portrayed in the Bible, does not love God with all his heart, soul, and mind, and tempting humanity like crazy isn't loving us at all. He tempted Christ, he didn't follow Him. True enough. I suppose I was taking the argument from the point that while some believe only in God, not in Satan, Satan himself believes in both God and Jesus. SoundDoctrine Cougar Draven SoundDoctrine But hey, all that means is lots and lots of choices! If you don't agree with one, move on to the next one until you find one you like! Yay for Christianity! 4laugh Again, not the biggest fan of it...but yeah, sure. Those who choose their own faith within the followers of Christ sure seem happy with it, so I'll agree on that point. I was being facetious. ^_^ I can understand that. I sometimes am facetious, and I change "religious" affiliation almost weekly, and usually to something with an amusing name. This week I'm an Existential Buddhist. I think I'll go Pastafarian next week. SoundDoctrine Cougar Draven SoundDoctrine Snipped for brevity. - Cougar Ironically, a few years ago, I ran into someone like that while I was in the United Methodist Church who told me that because I wasn't part of his denomination, that I was going to hell. I punched him. And then told him "Hell, I could've told you that six years ago." There's a little joke that's overused in Christianity and it goes something like this. The Lutherans went into heaven and met Peter. Peter was showing them around heaven, and when they were passing a castle, Peter goes,"Shh!!! Be quiet! That's where the Methodists live and they think they're the only ones up here." Oh, but they do. I got sick of Methodism quite quickly, but there was a good-looking girl who I knew from school in my youth group who went there too. When she stopped going to youth group...so did I. SoundDoctrine Cougar Draven I've always thought that, yeah, they look at things differently, but it all boils down to the same s**t in the end, so why bother separating? Even when I was between denominations, and for about two years before I forsook my faith in God, I considered myself a nondenominational Christian, for the reason that I'm not about to force myself to choose between the lesser of two goods when I can just worship God in my own way. It worked for me until recently. It's cool to be nondenominational and worship God your own way. House Churches are the new trend in Christianity. Just some people feel that they cannpt lead themselves, or cannot understand the Bible themselves, or they feel that a particular denomination fits their beliefs perfectly and they feel like they would like to fellowship with that denomination. Some people take their belief in the Trinity very seriously, others take the sacrements like Baptism and Communion very seriously,so they only go to their denomination and not any others. Faith in itself is a personal thing, so people just do what they want. Since there's so many things to choose from to do in Christianity, there's many different Christians who do different things. I think that's the way it should be. Throw away the denominational congregating, and just be Christians for once. I'm a fan of that for two reasons. One, my roommate-who-thinks-he's-going-to-hell fancies building his own church later in life, and I said that if I find my faith walking down one of life's 42 roads, I'll teach Sunday School for him. Two, it gets rid of the Catholic Church.
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:07 pm
Technically, anyone who believes in god and accepts Jesus as their Savior is a Christain.
But the catch is, if you do these things it means you're supposed to serve God, which means working for Him and others, etc. Spending time in worship, prayer, that kinda stuff.
I don't think there's really a right was to praise God. I feel closest to God when I sing, other I know love to pray, one friend told she only feels slose to him when she plays the piano. You kinda have to find what works for you.
I'm a member of the United Methodist church, which I love because our thought is we'll give you the information about God from the Bible. We'll help you understand it and teach the best we can about it. But you make up your mind. I've been in Bible study for about 5 years now through my youth group, and on one topic they'll present us with several different widely accepted theories, and then encourage us to debate them and come up with our own ideas. And I think that's what Christianity is really about.
Granted, we are called to live as God wants us. But does it really matter if Adam's name was Adam? No. There are so many nit picky details I think a lot of Christians get hung up on and they miss the big picture- love God, love your neighbors, love yourself.
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:57 am
You forgot to mention those who read the bible in the translated English version and believe that is the "perfectly" translated version; i.e. the issue of homosexuality, Yeshua's name, etc. That brings me to the issue of Yeshua. People refuse to call him by his technical name. It is not Jesus. There weren't any "Gee" sounds or a J in the Aramaic language at that time. If the Bible can't be translated to spell Yeshua's name correctly, I don't know if I can really trust the rest of the text in the English version. Let me put emphasis on Yeshua's name. The son of YHWH, the creator of all (or so some believe), was translated wrong!
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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:56 pm
My Conscience You forgot to mention those who read the bible in the translated English version and believe that is the "perfectly" translated version; i.e. the issue of homosexuality, Yeshua's name, etc. That brings me to the issue of Yeshua. People refuse to call him by his technical name. It is not Jesus. There weren't any "Gee" sounds or a J in the Aramaic language at that time. If the Bible can't be translated to spell Yeshua's name correctly, I don't know if I can really trust the rest of the text in the English version. Let me put emphasis on Yeshua's name. The son of YHWH, the creator of all (or so some believe), was translated wrong!That's true- we loose so much in translation. I still don't think we need to study the Bible, but have a history of Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaeic is very important. I learned more in a one year Bible study with my youth minister where he would point out translation facts (go back to the original Greek and stuff) than I think I have in the rest of my life.
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