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[gossamer]!smile. Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:50 am
So, if a person with a finger size of six inches forced his finger in your mouth, you'd see it as just as bad as him putting his p***s in your mouth? And I'm sure a p***s can't transmit STD's on it's own (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm sure that it's the semen that transmits the STDs.
EDIT: I take that back. Such things like herpes and warts could possibly be transmitted. But what if someone has AIDs, and a cut on their finger. Would that be considered as bad/worse as oral rape?
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:02 am
Pandora Box [.Parade.of.Underpants.] I think that "rape is about power and control" is all bullshit. I think personally that rape is about sex. If you want to have sex with someone you drug them, or hold them down somehow, but if you just wanted to be in control and flaunt your promiscuous power, I cant see rape turning up the top ten ways of doing that. Then obviously you don't know that much about rape. Yeah, rape involves sex. But if it was only about sex, who would be getting raped? Those who are attractive, those who flaunt it. It goes back to how a lot of people DO think rape is about sexual attraction and so the first thing they say is "well, you shouldn't have been wearing [insert article of clothing here]." But if that were the case, then women wouldn't be getting raped in the Middle East or other places where covering up most of the body is extremely common if not required. And women wouldn't be getting raped by their boyfriends and husbands, men who normally they would willingly have sex with. Well if they would willingly have sex with them, why exactly do you need rape? If they are willing, you are pretty much the one in control anyway. And no, someone will not rape someone just because they were wearing a miniskirt or a halter top, it is most of the time a person who knew the victum, someone who had wanted to have sex with them but couldnt, a friend, a relative, someone like that. And if it is a husband or boyfriend, it is two diffrent cases: One, if their sober, or two if they are wasted. And Im not so sure how frequent it occurs in the middle east.
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:53 am
[.Parade.of.Underpants.] Well if they would willingly have sex with them, why exactly do you need rape? If it was only about sex, they wouldn't have to. That was the point I was making. Many women are raped by their boyfriends/husbands, who they would normally willingly have sex with. Quote: If they are willing, you are pretty much the one in control anyway. No, if it's a willing, equal relationship, no one's "in control" during sex (unless it's specifically about that, like roleplaying or something). Quote: And no, someone will not rape someone just because they were wearing a miniskirt or a halter top, it is most of the time a person who knew the victum, someone who had wanted to have sex with them but couldnt, a friend, a relative, someone like that. I know. I also said that. Quote: And if it is a husband or boyfriend, it is two diffrent cases: One, if their sober, or two if they are wasted. Do you have any sources for that? Quote: And Im not so sure how frequent it occurs in the middle east. About as frequently as in the U.S. Especially during war (actually, in most places rape goes up during wars). I don't have an exact statistic on hand but I could probably look one up if it's that important. Gossamer, RMarques answered you on what you said to me, so I'm not going to bother going over all that again; so I'll answer [gossamer]!smile M-mann I would think the risk of pregnancy makes it worse. There's such a thing as a morning after pill, and if it comes down to it- an abortion.There's a problem with that. Not all hospitals give you the morning after pill (most do, but Catholic hospitals are notorious for refusing to do so). And even though it's now over-the-counter, pharmacists still have the right to refuse to give it to a woman if the pharmicist believes it's "wrong." There's a similar problem with abortions. While it's still mostly legal mostly everywhere, some women don't know they're pregnant until it's too late. Or, if they do find out they're pregnant, there have been cases where the doctor purposely DELAYS the abortion until it's too late for the woman to get one. Granted, these things can be fixed. But not for a while, and right now it does make it worse.
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:22 pm
[gossamer]!smile. So, if a person with a finger size of six inches forced his finger in your mouth, you'd see it as just as bad as him putting his p***s in your mouth? And I'm sure a p***s can't transmit STD's on it's own (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm sure that it's the semen that transmits the STDs.
EDIT: I take that back. Such things like herpes and warts could possibly be transmitted. But what if someone has AIDs, and a cut on their finger. Would that be considered as bad/worse as oral rape? As far as phisical pain goes, yes I would. But please, when making a statement, at least use something possible (if you actually know someone with a 6 inch (15 cm) finger, then I retreat that). On the other hand, forcing a finger into someone's mouth tkes less effort than doing the same with a p***s. With a finger, being quick and having a good sense of opportunity is enough, however, such thing does not happens with a p***s. Unless the attack is done during the victims sleep (and even then), you MUST use violence in order to force a p***s into one's mouth. Unless you just happen to be aroused, naked from the waist down, and a midget or a child with an open mouth happens to bump into your crotch. But let's face it, what the odds of THAT happening?
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:39 pm
I'm only going to argue points that I can, at this time, refute. Pandora Box Quote: If they are willing, you are pretty much the one in control anyway. No, if it's a willing, equal relationship, no one's "in control" during sex (unless it's specifically about that, like roleplaying or something). Not entirely true. You're taking "in control" to mean "BDSM" here. In control simply means you don't have to ask permission, and if they're willing...you don't. Pandora Box Quote: And if it is a husband or boyfriend, it is two diffrent cases: One, if their sober, or two if they are wasted. Do you have any sources for that? I believe what he meant was that if they're sober and raping their girlfriend/wife, then there are some serious problems, most likely stemming from the "need to control/dominate" we mentioned earlier. If they're drunk...it probably stems from the effects of the alcohol, and a latent tendency to dominate. Pandora Box [gossamer]!smile M-mann I would think the risk of pregnancy makes it worse. There's such a thing as a morning after pill, and if it comes down to it- an abortion.There's a problem with that. Not all hospitals give you the morning after pill (most do, but Catholic hospitals are notorious for refusing to do so). And even though it's now over-the-counter, pharmacists still have the right to refuse to give it to a woman if the pharmicist believes it's "wrong." There's a similar problem with abortions. While it's still mostly legal mostly everywhere, some women don't know they're pregnant until it's too late. Or, if they do find out they're pregnant, there have been cases where the doctor purposely DELAYS the abortion until it's too late for the woman to get one. Granted, these things can be fixed. But not for a while, and right now it does make it worse. I'd like to see sources on the physician's - and pharmacist's - essential perjury. Not that I don't find it believable, I'd just like to see proof.
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:58 pm
Cougar Draven Not entirely true. You're taking "in control" to mean "BDSM" here. In control simply means you don't have to ask permission, and if they're willing...you don't. Well, not necessarily BDSM, just something with more control. But with regular sex in a relationship, you have to have permission, it's just assumed (on BOTH parts) unless otherwise mentioned. Both still have every right to say "No, I don't feel like it" or "No, stop." Quote: Pandora Box Quote: And if it is a husband or boyfriend, it is two diffrent cases: One, if their sober, or two if they are wasted. Do you have any sources for that? I believe what he meant was that if they're sober and raping their girlfriend/wife, then there are some serious problems, most likely stemming from the "need to control/dominate" we mentioned earlier. If they're drunk...it probably stems from the effects of the alcohol, and a latent tendency to dominate. Oh, I completely missed the "if they're sober" part. I have no idea how that happened. So I see your point. Quote: I'd like to see sources on the physician's - and pharmacist's - essential perjury. Not that I don't find it believable, I'd just like to see proof. It's not perjury for the pharmacists, because it's completely legal. It's part of a concientious objection clause. Luckily, some pharmacies (like CVS) and states require their pharmacists to fill Plan B, but most pharmacies and states allow the pharmacist to refuse. As to the doctors delaying abortion... the closest thing I can find is this Times article. Plus Mandatory Delays, but these are legal in certain states. The problem is a lot of people don't realize what the doctor is doing is wrong. Oh, and I forgot to mention crisis pregnancy centers. These happen a lot more often than individual doctors delaying abortions, so it's a better point. Crisis pregnancy centers are almost always run by pro-life organizations. They are usually close to an actual establishment that provides abortions, i.e. a Planned Parenthood. Crisis pregnancy centers claim to help women make decisions about their pregnancies, but, in fact, they do not see abortion as an option. If the woman wants an abortion, they give her false information (like it increases your risk for breast cancer, infertility, etc., which is not true) and will not refer her to an actual abortion provider. Sources on that: Guttmacher InstituteH.R. 5052 Stop Deceptive Advertising for Women's Services ActSen. Waxman Report on CPC
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[gossamer]!smile. Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:37 pm
RMarques [gossamer]!smile. So, if a person with a finger size of six inches forced his finger in your mouth, you'd see it as just as bad as him putting his p***s in your mouth? And I'm sure a p***s can't transmit STD's on it's own (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm sure that it's the semen that transmits the STDs.
EDIT: I take that back. Such things like herpes and warts could possibly be transmitted. But what if someone has AIDs, and a cut on their finger. Would that be considered as bad/worse as oral rape? As far as phisical pain goes, yes I would. But please, when making a statement, at least use something possible (if you actually know someone with a 6 inch (15 cm) finger, then I retreat that). On the other hand, forcing a finger into someone's mouth tkes less effort than doing the same with a p***s. With a finger, being quick and having a good sense of opportunity is enough, however, such thing does not happens with a p***s. Unless the attack is done during the victims sleep (and even then), you MUST use violence in order to force a p***s into one's mouth. Unless you just happen to be aroused, naked from the waist down, and a midget or a child with an open mouth happens to bump into your crotch. But let's face it, what the odds of THAT happening? Hehe. Nice points. But this is the way I was hopeing the argument would turn.
If violence is the only thing that seperates the two- then what makes it any worse than getting beaten to a bloody pulp (like I was)?
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:25 pm
[gossamer]!smile. RMarques [gossamer]!smile. So, if a person with a finger size of six inches forced his finger in your mouth, you'd see it as just as bad as him putting his p***s in your mouth? And I'm sure a p***s can't transmit STD's on it's own (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm sure that it's the semen that transmits the STDs.
EDIT: I take that back. Such things like herpes and warts could possibly be transmitted. But what if someone has AIDs, and a cut on their finger. Would that be considered as bad/worse as oral rape? As far as phisical pain goes, yes I would. But please, when making a statement, at least use something possible (if you actually know someone with a 6 inch (15 cm) finger, then I retreat that). On the other hand, forcing a finger into someone's mouth tkes less effort than doing the same with a p***s. With a finger, being quick and having a good sense of opportunity is enough, however, such thing does not happens with a p***s. Unless the attack is done during the victims sleep (and even then), you MUST use violence in order to force a p***s into one's mouth. Unless you just happen to be aroused, naked from the waist down, and a midget or a child with an open mouth happens to bump into your crotch. But let's face it, what the odds of THAT happening? Hehe. Nice points. But this is the way I was hopeing the argument would turn.
If violence is the only thing that seperates the two- then what makes it any worse than getting beaten to a bloody pulp (like I was)?Not worse, just different, and to be handled differently. In my opinion anyway.
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:34 pm
RMarques [gossamer]!smile Hehe. Nice points. But this is the way I was hopeing the argument would turn.
If violence is the only thing that seperates the two- then what makes it any worse than getting beaten to a bloody pulp (like I was)? Not worse, just different, and ato be handled differently. In my opinion anyway. I'd agree. Extreme assault -- adding extreme because it IS like torture and a lot different from just a single punch in the face, for example -- and rape are similar. Not the same, because there are differences. But in that case, I don't think any one is worse than the other. There ARE differences with how they are treated, though, which does have some weight. I've never heard of someone blaming the VICTIM of a violent assault for what happened to them. (Not saying it can't happen, but it's not a regular thing.) On the other hand, rape victims are regularly blamed, at least partially, for what happened. You shouldn't have been there, you shouldn't have said that, you shouldn't have led him on, you shouldn't have been wearing that. It doesn't have a real effect on the actual act of rape, but it certainly does on how someone feels afterwards. But as I said before, THAT can be fixed. It will take some time, and a lot of changing attitudes, but it can be fixed.
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:09 pm
RMarques [gossamer]!smile. RMarques [gossamer]!smile. So, if a person with a finger size of six inches forced his finger in your mouth, you'd see it as just as bad as him putting his p***s in your mouth? And I'm sure a p***s can't transmit STD's on it's own (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm sure that it's the semen that transmits the STDs.
EDIT: I take that back. Such things like herpes and warts could possibly be transmitted. But what if someone has AIDs, and a cut on their finger. Would that be considered as bad/worse as oral rape? As far as phisical pain goes, yes I would. But please, when making a statement, at least use something possible (if you actually know someone with a 6 inch (15 cm) finger, then I retreat that). On the other hand, forcing a finger into someone's mouth tkes less effort than doing the same with a p***s. With a finger, being quick and having a good sense of opportunity is enough, however, such thing does not happens with a p***s. Unless the attack is done during the victims sleep (and even then), you MUST use violence in order to force a p***s into one's mouth. Unless you just happen to be aroused, naked from the waist down, and a midget or a child with an open mouth happens to bump into your crotch. But let's face it, what the odds of THAT happening? Hehe. Nice points. But this is the way I was hopeing the argument would turn.
If violence is the only thing that seperates the two- then what makes it any worse than getting beaten to a bloody pulp (like I was)?Not worse, just different, and ato be handled differently. In my opinion anyway. That was the point of this thread...I'm afraid it might've gotten a bit off topic. >p
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[gossamer]!smile. Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:55 pm
[gossamer]!smile. Quote: Because most victims know their rapist Proof?It's a commonly-known fact. If you don't know the most rudimentary of facts, why are you even making a thread on the topic in the first place?
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:12 pm
[gossamer]!smile. ReiDuck Also been physically assaulted. It doesn't suck nearly as badly, I assure you. I've been physically assulted. Beaten by four druggies because one of them thought I liked his girlfriend. Broken nose, my jaw had to be re-wired, lost my two top front teeth (I have fake ones, now), I needed over 100 stitches for my head, I lost a bit of hearing in my left ear, two if my ribs were broken as well as almost all of my fingers (I was trying to cover my self, they were hitting me with bats), and I needed a root canal for my left molar. For some reason, physical rape seems to be a little under that, or at least the same. And guess what? Later on I found out that one of the kids, Austin (who I considered a great friend) was one of the four that did that to me.So what reason is that? Here are some lovely statistics on the incidence of post-traumatic stress after a traumatic incident for you, courtesy of Dr. Chris Cantor: Prisoners of war: 50% Survivors of natural disasters: 4% Survivors of severe motor vehicle accidents: 12% Witnesses of tragic deaths or accidents: 7-12% Victims of rape: 50% Victims of non-sexual assault: 30% Severity, type, and duration of the sexual assault has very little impact on the variance; individual differences between subjects somewhat more so. Women experience non-sexual assault less frequently but have higher rates of PTSD from it. In the United States, 18% of women and 10% of women will develop PTSD at some point within their lifetimes. Females seem particularly vulnerable to specific events.Tragic death was the most common traumatic event, but sexual assault had the highest rate of PTSD. Younger men in war situations have higher rates than older men. Cantor stresses that PTSD is very much a function of perception and highly variable based on the individual. PTSD is most common among people raised under an authoritative parenting style where they were conditioned with "learned helplessness," the belief that a negative situation cannot be avoided or controlled or stopped, and the only solution is to wait it out. The less predictable and controllable an event, the more traumatic it will be. Types of trauma also appear to have a firm genetic basis - unpredictable and uncontrollable events not pertaining to evolutionarily dire situations, such as motor vehicle accident, have far lower trauma incidence rates than exposure to rape or death. Trauma also has a lower occurrence rate among acts not committed by another human being, such as natural disaster. The neuropsychology and endocrinology of sex functions differently with women than it does with men; women have a much larger mental contribution, with trust more important to the sexual act and with a greater sensitivity to betrayal. Women are more likely to contract PTSD than men under all circumstances, sexually in particular. I'm aiming to get my Ph.D in this stuff. [gossamer]!smile. Quote: Rape is not analogous to physical assault. Rape is analogous to torture - both situations have someone in a position of anguish where they have lost complete and utter control. What happened to me was analogous to torture, even more so because I had to lie there for only the gods know how long until some dude found me and called 911.Torture isn't just about physical pain. Torture is deliberate and involves a mental component, in which the victim is contained, made helpless, and broken. [gossamer]!smile. Quote: You're not arguing that torture isn't that bad, are you? No, are you?
Tell me. What's the difference from a man sticking his finger in your mouth and him sticking his p***s in your mouth? The fact that it has to do with sex. Which one is worse? The one that has to do with sex. But in reality, when you think about it, they're both pretty much the same thing. My finger is a part of my body, as is my p***s. But since one has to do with sex, it is immediately horrifying.Sex is not the same as other physical acts. Oxytocin and vasopressin do have a function, y'know.
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:08 pm
I have had first-hand experience with rape. Kind of. Last August, I was having a boring summer when my neighbor, a boy a month younger than me who's parents were (and still are) devoted Catholics, told me he liked me. (There is more to the story, but I will shorten it, because it pains me to write the whole story out.) The next day, I went over to his house and we had some sexual contact, when all of a sudden he rushed me out of his house and told me he liked some girl, and that he had kissed her the night before and so on. I was crushed! I left, very gloomy, and as I left, his mom pulled up. I went home and talked to him some more, and pretty soon he refused to talk to me. I began to talk to a friend of mine (I was really upset, I felt like I was used) and she had the perfect solution. She volunteered at a local animal shelter and what not. I went with her, and we went out for ice cream after. When I got home I was feeling 110% better. However, that would change. My parents were waiting for me when I got home. I found out that he had told his parents that I raped him. That I had been sexually preying on him for a long time and all kinds of other crap. They said that if I spoke about him, to him or about what heppened they'd take me to court for rape. They said if I ever did anything at all to them in any way, they would take me to court. Then the little douche goes around at school the next year and tells everyone I raped him. That isn't exactly a good thing, being known as a rapist in High School. Personally, because of this, I have given a bit more sympathy to people accused of rape. Unless it's obvious, I can never be sure any more. So.... yeah...
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:14 am
Yes rape is that bad. Not only is it an invasion of somebodies body, but it can be psychologically traumitizing as well as it can cause permanent damage a the rape victims body. My friend was raped and as a result she hasa currently a five percent chance of getting prgnant. She is only sixteen. Then there is another friend of mine who is so very petrified of any male that if she were to see a p***s she just bursts into tears and runs off in terror.
Yes you bring up the point what if it was the person's finger, yes it could be considered rape, anything can be sexual depending on how you look at things and it is still bodiliy invasion if it isn't with the person's consent. That is what rpe is Any and all sexual contact that is done without one or more consenting people. *shrugs* thats my take on it anyway.
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:06 pm
Pandora Box Cougar Draven Not entirely true. You're taking "in control" to mean "BDSM" here. In control simply means you don't have to ask permission, and if they're willing...you don't. Well, not necessarily BDSM, just something with more control. But with regular sex in a relationship, you have to have permission, it's just assumed (on BOTH parts) unless otherwise mentioned. Both still have every right to say "No, I don't feel like it" or "No, stop." While technically true, once assumed, the control lies with whoever initiates. I'm arguing this from experience...my girlfriend is psychologically abusive, and I'm trying to find a way to leave her. Pandora Box Quote: I'd like to see sources on the physician's - and pharmacist's - essential perjury. Not that I don't find it believable, I'd just like to see proof. It's not perjury for the pharmacists, because it's completely legal. It's part of a concientious objection clause. Luckily, some pharmacies (like CVS) and states require their pharmacists to fill Plan B, but most pharmacies and states allow the pharmacist to refuse. As to the doctors delaying abortion... the closest thing I can find is this Times article. Plus Mandatory Delays, but these are legal in certain states. The problem is a lot of people don't realize what the doctor is doing is wrong. Oh, and I forgot to mention crisis pregnancy centers. These happen a lot more often than individual doctors delaying abortions, so it's a better point. Crisis pregnancy centers are almost always run by pro-life organizations. They are usually close to an actual establishment that provides abortions, i.e. a Planned Parenthood. Crisis pregnancy centers claim to help women make decisions about their pregnancies, but, in fact, they do not see abortion as an option. If the woman wants an abortion, they give her false information (like it increases your risk for breast cancer, infertility, etc., which is not true) and will not refer her to an actual abortion provider. Sources on that: Guttmacher InstituteH.R. 5052 Stop Deceptive Advertising for Women's Services ActSen. Waxman Report on CPCI concede. That's just ******** wrong.
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