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 Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:09 pm
dragonmatt5 hmm i can think of another way this rule could be interpetted. I always thought of it in terms of any person can be smart but people are stupid. to borrow a line (can't remember from where) "People are stupid, dangerous reckless creatures" Sort of the whole mob menality aspect. When you add mob mentality into the equation, it does shift the argument. It may be easier to convince a crowd of something than to convince an individual. So "persons" are not necessarily stupid, but "people" may be. What do you think?
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:16 pm
Mob mentality can certainly be a big part of the Wizard's First Rule. In fact, mob mentality makes it even easier to succumb to, since people certainly aren't using their critical thinking skills at such a time. But it applies on a small scale too. Have you ever believed something someone told you because you wanted to believe it or were afraid it was true, whether there was "proof" or not? Then you've been a victim of the Wizard's First Rule.
What it comes down to is do we think the Wizard's First Rule is simply a literary conceit made up by the writer to advance his story? Or is it something that can be applied in "real life" too? And if we believe it has real world applications, are we willing to accept the full implications of that? Are we willing to admit that we might be the stupid ones that are holding false beliefs out of fear or desire and perhaps then take a closer look at what we believe and why?
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Aria na`Hael Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:22 pm
@Aria;
I'd lean towards the idea that the Wizard's First Rule is an exaggeration of a real-life phenomenon. I do believe that there are people who are just skeptical by nature and question everything. I'm one of them. I refuse to take things at face value, or because someone said so. I insist on examining, researching, and making up my own mind.
Now, I may be the exception that proves the rule, but I don't think so. I refer back to the Lincoln quote I cited above.
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:30 pm
Then you would have made a good wizard in Goodkind's world DG. xd
I definitely think that it doesn't necessarily apply to everyone all of the time. And neither did Goodkind really. After all the Rule does say "almost" anyone will believe "almost" anything. But I do think its good thing to keep in mind before we go spouting off about what we "know" is true. If we accept our vulnerability to false beliefs we can protect against them better. Like I said, knowing really is half the battle.
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Aria na`Hael Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:34 pm
I agree that it is an exageration with underlying truth. We are all capable of being swayed to another's thoughts and actions if we refuse to accept that we may be wrong. And in holding onto the pride of that thinking, we create the way our stand can be changed. Maybe that is the meaning to 'people are stupid'. everyone can be stupid,even those that act inteligent but no one is doomed to it, i think.
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:41 pm
dragonmatt5 I agree that it is an exageration with underlying truth. We are all capable of being swayed to another's thoughts and actions if we refuse to accept that we may be wrong. And in holding onto the pride of that thinking, we create the way our stand can be changed. Maybe that is the meaning to 'people are stupid'. everyone can be stupid,even those that act inteligent but no one is doomed to it, i think. Ah! I think you've hit it perfectly. Especially about the arrogance of not being able to accept that we could be wrong making us even more vulnerable to the Rule. In a lot of ways, the rule is just as much about pride as it is about intelligence.
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Aria na`Hael Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:42 pm
YAY i hit the point.....sorry redface
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:43 pm
@ Aria -- I completely agree that we should all be aware of this tendency, and to examine our beliefs regularly. Especially if we intend to go spouting off at others.
There's a curious mixture of pride and humility in this examination process. We must have enough confidence in our own powers of research and investigation to be willing to examine what we're being told. At the same time, we must be humble enough to admit that our preconceptions might be wrong.
@dragonmatt5
Yes! That's so right! No-one is doomed to stupidity. It's mostly laziness that makes us vulnerable, don't you think?
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:48 pm
i see why it is a wizard's rule, it requires the ability to look into one's self while trusting one's self to be able to deal with what you find. quite a feat nowadays
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:51 pm
dragonmatt5 i see why it is a wizard's rule, it requires the ability to look into one's self while trusting one's self to beable to deal with what you find. quite a feat nowadays Very well said. That is truly a wizard-level feat. And we have so few today who even aspire to apprenticeship. The more people want things just handed to them, the more likely they'll be handed a load of bull. I do like the way you think and the way you express yourself!
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:54 pm
thank you and ditto to both of you. it has been a while since i have bothered to use my brain in such a fasion
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:55 pm
Guys, I hate to say but I have to get some shleep.
Matt, YOU are obviously going to fit in well here with your discussion prowess.
Everyone, I willsee you tomorrow *huggles*
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:56 pm
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:06 pm
*huggles Dharmagirl*
night dear!
(I'm still rooting in my closet -- I'm feeling more bookish than warrior right now. Maybe I need a scarf or a kerchief or something... not sure.)
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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:11 pm
I'm starting to fade, too. I think it's time for me to make my sleepytime tea and start the brain-shut-down sequence.
dragonmatt5, I'm really glad you joined. Hope to see you back here again tomorrow. We will be sending out more invitations, so you'll have more friends to play with too!
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