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This is sadly starting to devolve into the political debates I had to take part in during the time I still thought it was a good idea to be active in that area. It was always the same thing; some one brings up some point why they think their ideological standing is superior, and then some one else points out why they don't think that their theory works in practice, and it's always the same pointless bickering that never leads anywhere and rarely makes any one change their point of views in any way.

It's the same thing here. I'm saying that I support the theory of file sharing and the re-distribution of art for the sake of spreading art and making it easier for people to find what they're looking for and NOT for the personal gains of any third party.
And just like in every other imaginable discussion I'm confronted with the same "reality check" argumentation that in the real world people lie, cheat and steal out of greed, hunger for attention or whatever reason they 'steal' other's works for, which is still irrelevant since I've already said that I'm against claiming people's work as their own and/or financially benifitting from some one else's labour. The fact that it can hypothetically occur as a result of re-distribution won't change my point of view on the subject as it's about as logical as saying that I shouldn't be allowed to own a kitchen knife because some one hypothetically could get hurt because of that.

And I still won't agree that people lose out because of this kind of re-distribution (which isn't theft since nothing's taken; it's just multiplied and re-distributed; it's physically impossible to steal digital data). I've found the sites of most of the artists site I know of and frequent through image boards and I wouldn't have found them otherwise since it's impossible for me to search for Japanese sites on my own and I'm definently not alone in that, so that immideatly cancels out your argument.
And frankly, I rarely see such statements/links as you examplified there and I'm not even familiar with the OFP from any previous occasion, so you can't say that I'm disrespectful if I'm not respecting a wish that they haven't stated.

Just reversed, hit update and saw that it had been moved. Praise Firefox.



But I wasn't talking about those sites. To quote myself:
"And frankly, I rarely see such statements/links as you examplified there and I'm not even familiar with the OFP from any previous occasion"
With which I'm meaning that I've rarely seen anything like it on any of the sites that I've frequented.



It still isn't theft since it's impossible to steal, ie physically remove, intellectual property.



When did I say I was *THE* example? I gave the example of me, *the majority of my friends* and most of the people I see at the places I frequent, so again you misunderstand me, so again you seem to be misunderstand me.
And I still can't see how they lose respect/attention/etc through file sharing; they potentially lose it through people claiming their works as their own, but if it goes up on an image board there's no way that I can see that any one gets harmed. Clearly we have different opinions here, but just try and explain to me why this is the case. YES, I understand that you believe that 'stealing' can be harmful and YES, your artist friends disagree with every point I've tried to make, so could you please explain why - in a bit better detail - exactly how they get hurt if their art is randomly posted in a thread at an image board somewhere on the net? Then we can actually move this conversation forward rather than walking around in circles.

Great, so we're in agreement then. Just because the digital re-distrubition can potentially LEAD to bad thing doesn't mean that the act in itself is bad, if done in a proper manner, and plagiarism - which is a completely different thing - is bad. Ice cream and hugs for every one, eh?

Sure, it'd be ice to ask, but how on earth are you supposed to ask a japanese artist if you don't speak japanese. Or an artist that speaks ANY foreign language. The whole asking thing ust doesn't work. And what about sites that haven't been updated in years (Like alot of Yugioh sites are now that the shows been around so long, people have moved on.) The onlyway I can see Asking work is if it's in a place like, Fanart Central, DA, or Y-Gallery.

But honestly, If artists don't want their art stolen then they really shouldn't post it =/ No one should expect that people would be nice and not steal it. (Maybe it sounds sort of Pessimistic, but it's the truth.)It doesn't matter how many warnings someone puts on there page. Hell, the whole layout could say DO NOT STEAL in big bolded red letters, that doesn't mean that anyone's going to listen.

I'm really tired of artists complaining about this. It's been happening since the beggining of artists putting art on the internet, and it'll keep happening. There's nothing anyone can do about it. So basically, if you put your art out there for the public to see, then don't b***h when someone takes it. It'd be like spreading out paintings on your front lawn. Do you really think no one is going to take one?

::EDIT::

I thought I should add that I in no way support Art Theft, I just don't support the whiny artists who b***h when their stuff is stolen.

I dissagree. x.o;; I've heard that a thousand times and it doesn't make it better. It's kind of angering, actually "Hey, if you put up your work your just ASKING for it to be stolen!" "Why should I have to work to ask permission if they live in another country?" Really! It's not like THEY spent hours on the picture...
...Oh wait. stare

There ARE online translations available. They aren't the best and you have to keep what you say simple, but they DO work. (I've been talking to a member of y-gallery in italian using babelfish, for example.)

They worked hard creating that art, and you can't even use a free service, much less take the time to learn some of the basics of their language. >.>;;


As far as artists not posting it if they don't want their art stolen... This coming from the same people who were just BASHING artists who take down their work because of theft? Hypocrit anyone?

(Note- yeah, ADK's a jackass when debating. razz Love you both.)

Even if you didn't, Narki certainly did, and he supported your arguements and considered them good points.

Hum. So you also must be the type then that think that women who dress sexy deserve to be raped. After all, its THEIR fault for dressing that way, they're asking for it. You can't expect people to do the right thing, so they shouldn't complain. Is that it?

It's the same mode of thinking however-
"They're asking for it."

They're asking for it is not and will never be an excuse, or anything close to it.
No, people aren't asking for it.

It's not like putting pictures on your lawn, its like hanging them in a gallery. A gallery you worked hard to make nice, and possible even put a donation box to put you along. Where you can sit there and see how many people come in.

And then someone comes in takes... photographs aren't correct, becasue they make absolute perfect copies. And put them in THEIR galleries, which are full of copies. Your work is lost, your name forgotten, while their gallery thrives with swarms of people.

Now bunches of people are doing this, stealing from the small one person galleries and putting them into the larger galleries with all sorts of work. They think its ok, because they're 'sharing it with the world.'

But what about the other galleries, which were doing the same? Now the original artists loose, as more and more people transfer the work and its source becomes more and more forgotten.

Tell me, kookoo-sei, what percentages of the fanart you own can you track?


It's bad for the fans too. If I see a work done by an artist I really like, I want to find more, but I CAN'T because 90% of the work posted has no name, much less a link.


And I have to say, if someone started stealing all the pages of TaL and posting them on their site, not claiming it as their own but not linking back or stating my or Lara's name, I'd be pretty pissed, even if they were japanese or german or some other random country.
No one would know it was mine... thus less no one would be able to contradict someone else who wants to steal the work or characters.

And what if someone took a picture of Barak or Raamah, thought they looked 'cool,' and stuck the name of THEIR character on it, called them their character and toted around the images as if it was theirs, showing it off and rps with a completely different character, worse, a Stu? That would be HORRIBLE-
AND IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.