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 Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:04 pm
I disagree. Many parents probably send their children to Catholic School BECAUSE it's Catholic. It's not fair of us to say that they shouldn't teach the Catholic faith.
If we were talking about a school in Germany, it would be unfair to say that they shouldn't be teaching German history as opposed to French history or American history.
I think that it's completely fair for a CATHOLIC school to require courses in the religion that supports the school. When non-Catholic students enroll, I feel that the expectation is that there will be denominational biases in the cirriculum. But if the educational benefits outweigh the bias (which they seem to in Kaay's case) I feel like the best plan is "suck it up."
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:36 am
Emerald_Jasmine I disagree. Many parents probably send their children to Catholic School BECAUSE it's Catholic. It's not fair of us to say that they shouldn't teach the Catholic faith. If we were talking about a school in Germany, it would be unfair to say that they shouldn't be teaching German history as opposed to French history or American history. I think that it's completely fair for a CATHOLIC school to require courses in the religion that supports the school. When non-Catholic students enroll, I feel that the expectation is that there will be denominational biases in the cirriculum. But if the educational benefits outweigh the bias (which they seem to in Kaay's case) I feel like the best plan is "suck it up." If that's the case, feel free to explain to me why knowing about the life of St. Ignatius Loyola is educationally beneficial. stare
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:03 pm
Emerald_Jasmine I disagree. Many parents probably send their children to Catholic School BECAUSE it's Catholic. It's not fair of us to say that they shouldn't teach the Catholic faith. If we were talking about a school in Germany, it would be unfair to say that they shouldn't be teaching German history as opposed to French history or American history. I think that it's completely fair for a CATHOLIC school to require courses in the religion that supports the school. When non-Catholic students enroll, I feel that the expectation is that there will be denominational biases in the cirriculum. But if the educational benefits outweigh the bias (which they seem to in Kaay's case) I feel like the best plan is "suck it up." Yes, but what if you weren't Catholic? Suppose you were Jewish, or Muslim, or I don't know....this probably isn't very common, but agnostic or atheist? Those children's parents probably force them to go to the school against their will. My mom forced me to get confirmed like the rest of our Catholic family even though I'm Agnostic and I really didn't want to. Every class I had felt like sheer torture to me.
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:10 pm
[ Rose ] Emerald_Jasmine I disagree. Many parents probably send their children to Catholic School BECAUSE it's Catholic. It's not fair of us to say that they shouldn't teach the Catholic faith. If we were talking about a school in Germany, it would be unfair to say that they shouldn't be teaching German history as opposed to French history or American history. I think that it's completely fair for a CATHOLIC school to require courses in the religion that supports the school. When non-Catholic students enroll, I feel that the expectation is that there will be denominational biases in the cirriculum. But if the educational benefits outweigh the bias (which they seem to in Kaay's case) I feel like the best plan is "suck it up." Yes, but what if you weren't Catholic? Suppose you were Jewish, or Muslim, or I don't know....this probably isn't very common, but agnostic or atheist? Those children's parents probably force them to go to the school against their will. My mom forced me to get confirmed like the rest of our Catholic family even though I'm Agnostic and I really didn't want to. Every class I had felt like sheer torture to me. *crosses arms and nods in agreement* The reason I'm going was because it was the best choice for me accedmically. I have mild ADD, and the school was the only one that offered a program for it and other learning differences, so...yeah. Plus the other two schools I applied for put me on the wait list/ didnt' accept me.
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:39 am
---------->>[ First days of the rest of my life... ]<<----------
honestly--it's because the CHURCH financially supports the school.
without the church, the school wouldn't exist.
as someone who is using a resource provided by a certain group, you seriously just have to make accomodations for the curriculum.
although the school may be perfectly suited to you in some respects, no one is forcing you to go there.
the majority of people who enroll in Catholic school do so because they wish (or their parents wish them) to recieve a Catholic education, which includes learning about the religion.
whether or not the student is specifically religious, it's more likely onsidered respectful for all the students to follow in the nature of the school, which is based around religion.
if the person is offended or bored by learning about the religion itself, maybe the school isn't really the right choice.
if it's best for someone academically, there's the choice of whether that benefit outweighs the costs--a religiously based edication.
---------->>[ 5 and counting...]<<----------
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:56 pm
the fuzziest llama ---------->>[ First days of the rest of my life... ]<<----------
honestly--it's because the CHURCH financially supports the school.
without the church, the school wouldn't exist.
as someone who is using a resource provided by a certain group, you seriously just have to make accomodations for the curriculum.
although the school may be perfectly suited to you in some respects, no one is forcing you to go there.
the majority of people who enroll in Catholic school do so because they wish (or their parents wish them) to recieve a Catholic education, which includes learning about the religion.
whether or not the student is specifically religious, it's more likely onsidered respectful for all the students to follow in the nature of the school, which is based around religion.
if the person is offended or bored by learning about the religion itself, maybe the school isn't really the right choice.
if it's best for someone academically, there's the choice of whether that benefit outweighs the costs--a religiously based edication.
---------->>[ 5 and counting...]<<---------- You're right llama...but it must really suck for the kids who wish with all their heart to go to a different school but their parents won't respect those wishes. I have a bunch of friends in Catholic school but a few of them would really rather go somewhere else but their parents won't let them. However, that's not the school's fault; the child should talk to their parents about that issue.
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:00 pm
I went through grade school at a Catholic school and they had a separate program for non-Catholics.
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:30 pm
[ Rose ] the fuzziest llama ---------->>[ First days of the rest of my life... ]<<----------
honestly--it's because the CHURCH financially supports the school.
without the church, the school wouldn't exist.
as someone who is using a resource provided by a certain group, you seriously just have to make accomodations for the curriculum.
although the school may be perfectly suited to you in some respects, no one is forcing you to go there.
the majority of people who enroll in Catholic school do so because they wish (or their parents wish them) to recieve a Catholic education, which includes learning about the religion.
whether or not the student is specifically religious, it's more likely onsidered respectful for all the students to follow in the nature of the school, which is based around religion.
if the person is offended or bored by learning about the religion itself, maybe the school isn't really the right choice.
if it's best for someone academically, there's the choice of whether that benefit outweighs the costs--a religiously based edication.
---------->>[ 5 and counting...]<<---------- You're right llama...but it must really suck for the kids who wish with all their heart to go to a different school but their parents won't respect those wishes. I have a bunch of friends in Catholic school but a few of them would really rather go somewhere else but their parents won't let them. However, that's not the school's fault; the child should talk to their parents about that issue. ---------->>[ First days of the rest of my life... ]<<----------
eewww, that does suck.
honestly, i could never force my child to do something they didn't want to do of that nature, it doesn't seem worth it.
@kaay: that's really great.
catholic schools shouldn't be expected to have prgrams like that, but it's nice if they happen to. 3nodding
---------->>[ 5 and counting...]<<----------
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:12 pm
Kaay-chan I went through grade school at a Catholic school and they had a separate program for non-Catholics. It's really great that they had it. But I agree with Llama, it's unfair to expect it. And you need to accept that there are people who feel that an education in faith is of primary importance. Or at least high on the list. Just because you don't see any relevance in the life of St. Ignatius Loyola doesn't mean that other people can't find it.
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Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:44 am
Alright then, let's put this into perspective. Say you're local public school sucked, and the only decent school that had accepted you was a Jewish Highschool that forced required students to take Hebrew and study the Torah. Wouldn't you feel the same way I do? Oh, and the cafateria would be Kosher.
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Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:24 pm
I feel pretty much the same as Kaay-chan. Really, I wonder if there should be religious/catholic schools at all. But then, this is a completely and thoroughly biased opinion from a girl whom hates going to church so much that she'd rather wait out the full hour and 45 minutes there holed up in a bathroom rather than go to the actual class. Heheheh sweatdrop .
I just think, to me and only me, that it's be ridiculous to have to take a class that I don't believe in any way, shape or form. Religion, especially Christianity, seems more ridiculous to me than a typical fairytale. And being the narrow-minded person that I can't help my rather adolescent, stubborn, and premature mind to be, I would probably come home in a seriously s**t-assed mood every day of school if I happened to have a required class about a religion which I have a passionate disliking of.
I would never be able to understand, this would not help my mind to broaden even if I wanted it to (which I probably would), I would not get used to it or come to terms with it. At least not for a good few years of the damn torture. I've never come to terms with listening to the church's preachings, even with really cool teachers, which is why I now always lie to my mom and then go hide in the bathroom/take a walk/swing at the playground instead of going to class.
Just listening about the bible makes me pissed off and irritated for at least half an hour, and then I go and complain about it to friends and family. And the teacher doesn't let you question anything. Even my sister says so and she's not all 'anti-church' like I am.
I would not be able to keep quiet in a class about a religion I cannot understand and have bitter feelings toward, no matter how much I tell myself to just ignore it and just scribble hateful things in my notebook to make me feel better.
I would probably interrupt the class with skeptical questions stated in an almost-mocking tone, argue with the points made, and when they say something like 'it all comes down to faithe' or something, I'd probably give the teacher a look of skepticism, a sarcastic 'Right... Of course...', and then keep doing crap like that due to my damned temper and nonexistant self-will/control, not doing homework and junk, until there are calls home, complaints, talks after class, and detentions and crap. I don't doubt that after a while I might even start skipping the class by 'accident' or go to the bathroom for extended periods of time frequently. I'm just a bitter, difficult, weak-minded, unnaccepting, and immature person with some s**t.
And, well, if my mom still forces me to go to church every damn Sunday when she quite clearly knows how much I detest it and Christianity/religion in general (quite clearly), I'm pretty sure that there are probably a few people somewhat like me that are forced to go to Catholic school and detest it above all else. I can't be the only bitter, narrow-minded, and self-centered aetheist in the world with a certain 'thing' against conversations concerning Christianity.
Not that I have anything against Christians. Lots of my friends are religous and crud, ya' know? And lots of the christian people in the church are real nice and stuff (though some of them are asses or too in your face, calling you to see if you're going to church or not and s**t). Just... the actual religion pisses me off.
:whistles: Just wrote all that and I barely remember a word of it. Whoops...
<3 Ali
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Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:10 pm
Kaay-chan Alright then, let's put this into perspective. Say you're local public school sucked, and the only decent school that had accepted you was a Jewish Highschool that forced required students to take Hebrew and study the Torah. Wouldn't you feel the same way I do? Oh, and the cafateria would be Kosher. All knowledge is worth having. If the rest of the education I got there was superior to the one I got at the local public school, I would deal with learning it. I think it's just as unfair for non-religious people to balk at the teaching of religion in a CHURCH SPONSORED school as it is for religious people to balk at the teaching of evolution in a public school. And I think that if you go in with a crappy attitude about it then it'll suck. But attempting to make the best of it may make it worth the effort. If you're excited about the rest of the education you'll be getting, one class a day shouldn't matter. They probably won't expect you to believe it, especially if they've had other non-Catholic students.
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:19 pm
Kaay-chan Alright then, let's put this into perspective. Say you're local public school sucked, and the only decent school that had accepted you was a Jewish Highschool that forced required students to take Hebrew and study the Torah. Wouldn't you feel the same way I do? Oh, and the cafateria would be Kosher. ---------->>[ First days of the rest of my life... ]<<----------
then i would deal with it, because i would be uses resources provided by a religiously affiliated organization.
it's respectful to follow the rules and teachings of their religion.
so no, i wouldn't feel the same way at all--learning about ANYTHING new interests me, and i consider religion to be interesting to learn about, though i as an individual harbor no religious affiliations or beliefs.
@ali: guess it'd be a good idea for you NOT to go to catholic school then.
i mean, no one is forcing you to go, it's illegal for them to do that.
---------->>[ getting on the plane TOMORROW...]<<----------
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:29 pm
Kaay-chan Emerald_Jasmine I would look at this as an opportunity to learn about a culture firsthand. I'm sure that the school has had other non-Catholic students in the past and the teachers for these courses will be aware that there may be students who don't hold the same beliefs. Try listening to your classmate who's an Atheist argue with your Faith teacher for half the class. stare Seriously, the guy would ask a question and it would some how turn into a debate of some kind. It was quite aggravation for all of us. That sounds like a ball to me. My little brother goes to a Missouri synod Lutheran college but we are ELCA lutherans. For those who don't know, ELCA and Missouri Synod differ on several issues, one such issue is the role of women in the church and in family life. Suffice to say most of you ladies would probably perfer ELCA. Also, as I have heard from my brother's experience, the people at this school are pretty hard core about their beliefs. Anyway, he gets really frustrated by how close minded the people are there and we keep telling him to raise hell and start arguments. (problem is people there don't argue, they just say "NO, your wrong!") I always like raising a little hell, kudo's to your Athiest classmate.
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:39 pm
Thalianost Kaay-chan Emerald_Jasmine I would look at this as an opportunity to learn about a culture firsthand. I'm sure that the school has had other non-Catholic students in the past and the teachers for these courses will be aware that there may be students who don't hold the same beliefs. Try listening to your classmate who's an Atheist argue with your Faith teacher for half the class. stare Seriously, the guy would ask a question and it would some how turn into a debate of some kind. It was quite aggravation for all of us. That sounds like a ball to me. My little brother goes to a Missouri synod Lutheran college but we are ELCA lutherans. For those who don't know, ELCA and Missouri Synod differ on several issues, one such issue is the role of women in the church and in family life. Suffice to say most of you ladies would probably perfer ELCA. Also, as I have heard from my brother's experience, the people at this school are pretty hard core about their beliefs. Anyway, he gets really frustrated by how close minded the people are there and we keep telling him to raise hell and start arguments. (problem is people there don't argue, they just say "NO, your wrong!") I always like raising a little hell, kudo's to your Athiest classmate. Okay, then, rephrase: Try listening to you're Atheist classmate argue with your teacher when you have something to say concerning the same issue. Ali: i sorta know how you feel. Excetp, I'm more I-belive-in-God-I-just-don't-follow-a-religion sort of way. sweatdrop Llama: When you're in highschool and you're parents are paying the tuition, there's not a lot of room to argue stare
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