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 Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:15 pm
Aww, I may not agree at all with PirilynLanaerith-chan's opinion, but no need to bag on her so hard, yah? ^^; Though I do agree with you rather wholeheartedly, llama-chan. http://z3.invisionfree.com/Ty_Kamara/index.php?showtopic=5651&st=45Yup, scroll down until ya' see the ridiculously-large-posts-that-had-to-spill-into-three-posts-due-to-the-sheer-length and that's most of my thoughts and every one of my parries/retorts to pro-lifers and stuff... 'Ali&Stephie' is meh username there... ... ... What? You want me to type out my thoughts on this all over again? Please, I already wasted so much life on that one debate in there XP . Go to page 6 of that thread, first post by Uchiha_Mariam(a pro-lifer, one of the most active in that thread) and you'll see something quite interesting on actual abortionists; while I have no problem with the actual act of abortion, I have a serious problem with the act being done without full knowledge or common sense unclouded while deciding between abortion or not. Here's another interesting tidbit for pro-lifers or people undecided, the Gaia Extended Discussion's Abortion topic. The whgole first page is a wealth of information on abortions and arguments for it's defense: http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11582937
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:08 am
P1: Belegorad Anyway the question of abortion isn't one of life or death because that will only lead to more questions or fighting and then maybe more dying so really, let's take it away from those realms for a moment. If a mother has a child she never wanted, then the child will not recieve the same love and care as others. The child may be raised to believe that violence and other things like that are good or fun and then act these thoughts out on others. Now, yeah you'll probably say something like "Why couldn't the child be put up for adoption if the mother doesn't want it?" So lets look at that a moment, not all adoptions go happily. I know because I've seen some where the adoptive parents are worse than the biological parents. I'll expand on that later though. Okay, woman A has sex while she is drunk or even while she is sober and decides not to get an abortion because it is illegal and she doesn't want the child. She neglects the child, or other wise the child isn't taught with love.A)the child dies or B) the child grows to believe that that level of social disconnection is good.Okay following B...A) the child has no friends gets suicidal and dies or B) the child continues to grow to a delinquint causes a crime and gets jailed. That is if abortion is illegal. The same woman got an abortion because she didn't want the baby for whatever reason. Now she isn't raising something that will become poisonous to society and she can get counciling or mature and have a family then. Now lets say that the woman wanted the baby. The baby gets raised in a loving caring enviroment. It matures into a decent person(likely to anyway) and then must clean up the mess caused by the baby that wasn't wanted. Really the bottom line of abortion isn't something we can define from a book or religious teaching. Abortion is something that is purely opinion thus, really shouldn't it be the opinion of the woman involved and not some people in an online forum? Shouldn't the woman who would have to carry the child and birth it get to decide it's fate? Really, It is up to the women whether it is right and for some mothers it isn't and for others it is and for them we should stand aside because otherwise it may be your kid that her kid blows away when he goes nuts and shoots up a highschool or something worse. So, I'm only gonna comment when it looks like one side or the other is taking potshots on the other. I personally believe it to be the decision of the woman involved and noone else. P2: Belegorad Beatrix the catgirl Belegorad Freak_n_flute there is still the freaking option of keeping your pants zipped up!!!!!!!!!! Saving it for marriage is a great way to know that you concieved the baby knowingly. Hm? Abstinence is the best method I agree but you ever seen booze my fine feathered friend? What about highschool? Abstinence isn't always possible for the weakminded, drugged, or seduced. Are you saying only weak people aren't abstinent? Not at all. Weak of mind or strong of mind, you could still slip up. If someone can talk your ideals down(or talk you out of them) and you are weak then you are weak. If someone can talk your ideals down and you are strong then you messed up and were either hoodwinked or chose to stray from abstinence. I should have found this discussion sooner.*notes he should read subforums too* sweatdrop
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:41 pm
One Wandering Soul I don't belive that live begins at conception. It is of my belief that life is a cycle that never ends. Although I don't support abortion I admit there are some cases where it is neccicary. I'd prefer giving the child up for adoption in any case since I myself am adopted and am very glad of that fact. It I had been aborted I would not be going to see Samantha where she lives in Utah and I wouldn't have met my current best friend who'll be going with me. Exactly how i feel
well almost just worded differently
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:43 am
I am pro choice, for a lot of the reasons named above, but Belograd put it precisely how I feel. I don't want to jump on people, but there was one comment in this thread that severely offended me. I'm just going to write a little on it, and then I'll leave. [ Rose ] (Well...some girls get raped by putting themselves in stupid situations so it is partly their fault, but still. sweatdrop ) Not true. No one can predict situations where she is going to be raped, or attemped to be raped. Rape victims stay up night after night wishing they had never gone into that stupid place at all, and comments like that don't help at all. Try to think a little before you make insensitive and completely wrong statements like that in the future.
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:58 am
suddenlystranded I am pro choice, for a lot of the reasons named above, but Belograd put it precisely how I feel. I don't want to jump on people, but there was one comment in this thread that severely offended me. I'm just going to write a little on it, and then I'll leave. [ Rose ] (Well...some girls get raped by putting themselves in stupid situations so it is partly their fault, but still. sweatdrop ) Not true. No one can predict situations where she is going to be raped, or attemped to be raped. Rape victims stay up night after night wishing they had never gone into that stupid place at all, and comments like that don't help at all. Try to think a little before you make insensitive and completely wrong statements like that in the future. I'm sorry, but still...I think you're just setting yourself up for a dangerous situation when you walk alone in the middle of night where no one seems to be around. I'm sorry if I sounded insensitive; I know there are situations in which you would have no idea that you were going to be raped, but there are girls who just set themselves up for it. I'm sure it's a traumatic experience, but I still think they shouldn't have set themselves up for it.
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:50 am
[ Rose ] suddenlystranded I am pro choice, for a lot of the reasons named above, but Belograd put it precisely how I feel. I don't want to jump on people, but there was one comment in this thread that severely offended me. I'm just going to write a little on it, and then I'll leave. [ Rose ] (Well...some girls get raped by putting themselves in stupid situations so it is partly their fault, but still. sweatdrop ) Not true. No one can predict situations where she is going to be raped, or attemped to be raped. Rape victims stay up night after night wishing they had never gone into that stupid place at all, and comments like that don't help at all. Try to think a little before you make insensitive and completely wrong statements like that in the future. I'm sorry, but still...I think you're just setting yourself up for a dangerous situation when you walk alone in the middle of night where no one seems to be around. I'm sorry if I sounded insensitive; I know there are situations in which you would have no idea that you were going to be raped, but there are girls who just set themselves up for it. I'm sure it's a traumatic experience, but I still think they shouldn't have set themselves up for it. People don't set themselves up for it. They don't walk around thinking Lemme find some party, or deserted street where I can get raped.They go to the party because they want to have fun, or they trust their friends. They walk down that streat because there's no other street to walk down and not everyone has safe means of transportation. So you say, let's never go to parties, and lets always walk down highways, which in many places are the only busy streets at night. Oh yeah, because we all love sitting at home and almost getting hit by cars when we walk. I'm going to be quiet now, before I get really angry.
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:06 am
[ Rose ] I'm sorry, but still...I think you're just setting yourself up for a dangerous situation when you walk alone in the middle of night where no one seems to be around. I'm sorry if I sounded insensitive; I know there are situations in which you would have no idea that you were going to be raped, but there are girls who just set themselves up for it. I'm sure it's a traumatic experience, but I still think they shouldn't have set themselves up for it. 'Set themselves up for it'? You mean like going out clubbing, going to a bar to get a drink alone after a huge break-up, or walking home really late because they didn't pay attention to the time? Being with a boyfriend that they know is abusive, running away from home because of all the fighting in the house, going to a crazy party with lots of drunks, stuff like that? 'Set themselves up for it' is a rather broad term. The only ones that I can think of right at the moment that seem even mildly reasonable are slutty girls and prostitutes. That could just be me though, I'm pretty certain that there are more things that seem reasonableish too. AMK
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:26 am
Ali Myrrh Kim [ Rose ] I'm sorry, but still...I think you're just setting yourself up for a dangerous situation when you walk alone in the middle of night where no one seems to be around. I'm sorry if I sounded insensitive; I know there are situations in which you would have no idea that you were going to be raped, but there are girls who just set themselves up for it. I'm sure it's a traumatic experience, but I still think they shouldn't have set themselves up for it. 'Set themselves up for it'? You mean like going out clubbing, going to a bar to get a drink alone after a huge break-up, or walking home really late because they didn't pay attention to the time? Being with a boyfriend that they know is abusive, running away from home because of all the fighting in the house, going to a crazy party with lots of drunks, stuff like that? 'Set themselves up for it' is a rather broad term. The only ones that I can think of right at the moment that seem even mildly reasonable are slutty girls and prostitutes. That could just be me though, I'm pretty certain that there are more things that seem reasonableish too. AMK ---------->>[ First days of the rest of my life... ]<<----------
people don't deserve to be raped no matter HOW promiscuous they are.
honestly, i could care less what the hell the wear, or who they sleep with as long as it's consentual.
there should be a reasonable expectation that women are treated with respect.
it is a CHOICE to wear what you please, and engage in whatever sexual activites you desire.
it is NEVER a choice to be raped, and i think it's very wrong when people say girls were "asking for it" due to what they choose to wear, or their sexual history.
even someone who has sex for a living doesn't deserve to be forced into having sex against their will.
---------->>[ 9 and counting...]<<----------
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:18 pm
the fuzziest llama ---------->>[ First days of the rest of my life... ]<<----------
people don't deserve to be raped no matter HOW promiscuous they are.
honestly, i could care less what the hell the wear, or who they sleep with as long as it's consentual.
there should be a reasonable expectation that women are treated with respect.
it is a CHOICE to wear what you please, and engage in whatever sexual activites you desire.
it is NEVER a choice to be raped, and i think it's very wrong when people say girls were "asking for it" due to what they choose to wear, or their sexual history.
even someone who has sex for a living doesn't deserve to be forced into having sex against their will.
---------->>[ 9 and counting...]<<---------- ... I never said or meant to say that I believe rape is ever 'right' or 'OK' or even 'not that bad'. I know this, and I know that people who are raped should never be 'blamed' or feel guilty about what happened or anything. But I'm pretty sure that almost every prostitute and slutty girl that sleeps with dozens of men every year know the high danger of something like rape, and I was trying to point out that that was the only type of thing that I could think of that could even be semi-reasonably labeled as 'setting themselves up'. Sorry if that still seemed insensitive though sweatdrop . <3 Ali
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:28 pm
the fuzziest llama Ali Myrrh Kim [ Rose ] I'm sorry, but still...I think you're just setting yourself up for a dangerous situation when you walk alone in the middle of night where no one seems to be around. I'm sorry if I sounded insensitive; I know there are situations in which you would have no idea that you were going to be raped, but there are girls who just set themselves up for it. I'm sure it's a traumatic experience, but I still think they shouldn't have set themselves up for it. 'Set themselves up for it'? You mean like going out clubbing, going to a bar to get a drink alone after a huge break-up, or walking home really late because they didn't pay attention to the time? Being with a boyfriend that they know is abusive, running away from home because of all the fighting in the house, going to a crazy party with lots of drunks, stuff like that? 'Set themselves up for it' is a rather broad term. The only ones that I can think of right at the moment that seem even mildly reasonable are slutty girls and prostitutes. That could just be me though, I'm pretty certain that there are more things that seem reasonableish too. AMK ---------->>[ First days of the rest of my life... ]<<----------
people don't deserve to be raped no matter HOW promiscuous they are.
honestly, i could care less what the hell the wear, or who they sleep with as long as it's consentual.
there should be a reasonable expectation that women are treated with respect.
it is a CHOICE to wear what you please, and engage in whatever sexual activites you desire.
it is NEVER a choice to be raped, and i think it's very wrong when people say girls were "asking for it" due to what they choose to wear, or their sexual history.
even someone who has sex for a living doesn't deserve to be forced into having sex against their will.
---------->>[ 9 and counting...]<<---------- It seems I was way too broad sweatdrop But it's hard for me to put into words...I don't know...taking part in dangerous activity through not-so-well thought out actions...? ...Argh, I give up. I do think all rapists should be in jail at least though. I think in some cases the girl "set herself up" for it per se...but that is only in certain circumstances. Overall, it was not the rape victim's fault. They did not choose to be raped because well...that's not possible xp
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:14 pm
---------->>[ First days of the rest of my life... ]<<----------
i would have to say no.
just. no.
---------->>[ 8 and counting...]<<----------
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:55 pm
I agree with Llama.
A person NEVER sets him or herself up to be raped.
Please realize that.
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:01 pm
~*~ I can't protect you whithout holding a sword ~*~ .:{ =/ There was something like this is the FGG once.
Let me say this: I agree with Rose
Let me also say this: I DO NOT THINKS ITS TOTALLY THE GIRLS FAULT. I know what Rose is trying to say. She means that sometimes the girls are not thinking. YES when you go outside on a desereted street you're not saying "I want to get raped" and YES when you go to a party you dont say "I want to get wasted and raped!" BUT YOU HAVE TO USE YOUR BRAIN A BIT. Try not to go down shady areas if you can help it. Try to make sure you have a good friend at a party so they can stop you from doing something stupid. TRY SOMETHING.
I like to think of it almost like driving. By taking precautiouns (i.e. buckling in), you can try and stop getting killed if you get in an accident, but you still might anyway.
I hate how our society is so used to thinking that everything is perfect and nothing bad will happen. DROP THIS IDEA. You need to be aware. You need to avoid dangerous situations. You need to think before you act
Llama, I know what happened to you, so maybe I have no right to be saying this.
But anyway, Let me conclude with this:
IT IS NOT THE GIRLS FAULT, BUT PEOPLE NEED TO BE CAREFUL IN SOME SITUATIONS!
So yes, I believe that its not the girls fault, but that doesn't mean people should run around acting without thinking.
(perhaps I said what you ment, Rose? Its hard to find the right words tosay this...)
OH, and I KNOW THERE ARE MANY SITUATIONS THAT NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, YOU CAN"T HELP IT!
Just making sure you guys understand that before you think Im a cold-hearted b***h. (Trust me, my absolute biggest fear is getting raped. Thats why I plan on taking martial arts classes and ALWAYS try to be aware and NEVER put my self in a situation that could be dangerous. But like i said, sometimes it can't be helped. =/) }:. ~*~ I can't embrace you while holding a sword ~*~
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:15 pm
---------->>[ First days of the rest of my life... ]<<----------
i agree with that, actually.
you SHOULD act responsibly with yourself.
if only because it gives you strength and dignity to care for yourself and keep yourself safe from stupid mistakes.
honestly, girls (or anyone else) shouldn't HAVE to watch their backs at parties, or be afraid to walk home at night...
but the reality is, that in our world, people are cruel, and do cruel things to one another.
consequently, it is a good idea to try to safeguard yourself from possible harm.
this includes rape.
however, i think it is wrong, coldhearted, cruel, and disrespectful when people turn around and tell rape victims it's their fault that a man violated them because THEY should have acted more responsively.
i can't really think of anything more horrible than having a rapist get off the hook in some people's eyes because they consider the girl to be a slut, or to have acted irresponsibly.
maybe we should watch out for ourselves, but it's pretty sad that we even have to, and even more sad that people would go so far as to say she deserved it, or that it was justified in some way.
i realise none of you were really saying this, but many people DO.
do you honestly think she doesn't think to herself EVERY DAY OF HER LIFE how regretful she is of where she was/who she was with/the situation she was in/any other variable that she might find to be her fault?
do you think she doesn't blame herself?
because she almost always does.
i wish people knew how many times i think about how i shouldn't have gotten int he car with him that night.
but i DID.
i put myself in a pretty dangerous situation--getting into a car in the middle of the night with a man who had been abusing me for over a year.
a lot of people think that makes it my fault, but i know better.
i made a mistake, he committed a crime.
and i'm sorry i did it, but i can't fix it.
---------->>[ 8 and counting...]<<----------
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:24 pm
~*~ I can't protect you whithout holding a sword ~*~ .:{ Llama,
I agree with EVERYTHING you said in your post.
What you said is EXACTLY what I was trying to say.
Also, I could totatly see myself blaming myself for doing something stupid that could put me in a bad situation (that ended up in rape). Hell, now I do that for some of the dmbest reasons.
And Llama, what happened to you IS NOT YOUR FAULT.
Everyone makes mistakes.
And even so, that man had NO right to violate you. scream
If he's not in jail, than I think I might have to throw up.
I love you and hope you know that <3 }:. ~*~ I can't embrace you while holding a sword ~*~
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Reply
![[ Rose ]'s avatar](https://a1cdn.gaiaonline.com/dress-up/avatar/ava/20/40/426c8ad114020_flip.png?t=1254506215_6.00_10)
