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The_Wicked_Man

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:17 am


i-am-upsidedown
It's so strange that the methods used by V are usually reserved for the "bad guys."


Not quite; just about every action film since Death Wish has defended shooting people and blowing things up as measures which can be taken to defend the world from evil.

For some reason, during the past thirty years, arguments for vigilante justice have found their way into every art form. Nobody wants to see Superman wrap a lightpost around a bank robber so cops can arrest the criminal and give him his fair trial; nowadays, protagonists (especially those in movies) have some sort of "the ends justify the means" mentality and almost always pull out a machine gun at some point in the story and kill large groups of thugs at a hideout.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:26 am


V For V

A few points of discussion:
*If you were a political activist would you create an image for yourself by wearing a costume? What would it look like?
*Are you satisfied with the government of the country you live in?
*What do you think about life; Coincidence or fate?
*Do you think about the world you live in in terms of right and wrong or do you think of it in terms of convenient or inconvenient?
*Could you ever stand up and fight for your opinion in an environment where almost everyone thinks differently or is too afraid to stand with you?
*Where do you see your country, politically, in 10 years? 20?
*Are you just in this guild for the novelty or do you think somewhat like V does?


Guys I have TOTALLY made this a sticky because it just generally is a great topic with huge things to discuss so here we go:


I will keep it short for now, cause I'm not having much time right now, but I will think about it and write more later.
In my opinion much is going wrong with my country. But not only with the government, also with the people.
There are too many people who just do what everybody does without really thinking about it.
nobody seems to have his own opinion.
I basically joined this guild because I am for V's ideals - always was for them, even before I saw that movie.
It is that my father teached me about such ideals before he died.
I lived after them and for that got into much trouble.
Many things were rejected from me, but I didn't give up cause he was there.
After he died my life was somewhat crashed, but I didn't give up on living his ideals which kept him in my heart eventhough I was angry about him for that he had left me alone as I was still young and a child..

Ah, it's too late at night for me, I'm getting all talky, and too much private's getting through soo - till later.

Azurella
Crew


i-am-upsidedown

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:29 pm


The_Wicked_Man
i-am-upsidedown
It's so strange that the methods used by V are usually reserved for the "bad guys."


Not quite; just about every action film since Death Wish has defended shooting people and blowing things up as measures which can be taken to defend the world from evil.

For some reason, during the past thirty years, arguments for vigilante justice have found their way into every art form. Nobody wants to see Superman wrap a lightpost around a bank robber so cops can arrest the criminal and give him his fair trial; nowadays, protagonists (especially those in movies) have some sort of "the ends justify the means" mentality and almost always pull out a machine gun at some point in the story and kill large groups of thugs at a hideout.

Maybe it just depends on who the comic/movie is geared towards.
But I was thinking more about the "evil mastermind" part of V. Hero's never have the time to plan out elaborate schemes to save the world.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:07 pm


i-am-upsidedown
Hero's never have the time to plan out elaborate schemes to save the world.


But then again, most heroes never have to save a world that is similar to V's. It's not like V had to save England from nuclear annihilation a la James Bond and was working on a tight deadline. He was busy readying himself for a revolutionary war, and all wars require calculation and proper preparation.

As some guy who nobody knows or cares to remember once said, "Rome was not built in a day."

The_Wicked_Man


V For V

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:27 am


The_Wicked_Man


But then again, most heroes never have to save a world that is similar to V's. It's not like V had to save England from nuclear annihilation a la James Bond and was working on a tight deadline. He was busy readying himself for a revolutionary war, and all wars require calculation and proper preparation.

As some guy who nobody knows or cares to remember once said, "Rome was not built in a day."
You remind me of a tabloid headline I saw the other week: "Rome WAS Built In A Day" Ahh good old quality reading..
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:56 am


V For V
You remind me of a tabloid headline I saw the other week: "Rome WAS Built In A Day" Ahh good old quality reading..


Compared to their other articles, I think Weekly World News phoned that one in.

The_Wicked_Man


V For V

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:15 am


The_Wicked_Man

Compared to their other articles, I think Weekly World News phoned that one in.
That's exactly the one I read. I refuse all others.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:37 am


The_Wicked_Man

But then again, most heroes never have to save a world that is similar to V's. It's not like V had to save England from nuclear annihilation a la James Bond and was working on a tight deadline. He was busy readying himself for a revolutionary war, and all wars require calculation and proper preparation.

As some guy who nobody knows or cares to remember once said, "Rome was not built in a day."


The methods used were still the ones that are usually left for the bad guys. Ruthless killings and huge explosions are not viewed kindly by society.

But come to think of it, usually heroes are at least backed a bit by their government, while this one was working against it.

i-am-upsidedown


Capricorn Sunchai

Aged Gaian

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:51 am


V For V

A few points of discussion:
*If you were a political activist would you create an image for yourself by wearing a costume? What would it look like?
*Are you satisfied with the government of the country you live in?
*What do you think about life; Coincidence or fate?
*Do you think about the world you live in in terms of right and wrong or do you think of it in terms of convenient or inconvenient?
*Could you ever stand up and fight for your opinion in an environment where almost everyone thinks differently or is too afraid to stand with you?
*Where do you see your country, politically, in 10 years? 20?
*Are you just in this guild for the novelty or do you think somewhat like V does?


A costume like V's I believe, is more practical. If you wore something like SUperman's outfit, what kind of image would that bestow upon you? I would, if I were a political activist, wear a costume. It wouldn't be very elaborate, but something that would distinguish myself from others.

I'd be satisfied with the government in the United States if they pulled the soldiers out of Iraq. :/ That's about all I really care about my government.

Life... is fated. Everyone knows V's quote- "There is no such thing as coincidence, only the illusion of coincidence." Or something to that extent. I believe that everything you do in life has been planned out before you; where you go two weeks from now, what you're eating for dinner tonight, etc. 3nodding

I can't say that everything in the world is black and white right and wrong, but there are definetly things that are right, and things that are wrong. Discriminating against someone because of their race, religion, or sexual preference is wrong/ There's no denying that. But helping someone in need of a friend is right. It should be done.

If I had the right preparations, I believe that I am a strong enough person to fight for what I believe in. My entire family is Roman Catholic. I am agnostic, meaning I don't follow a religion, but believe that there are things out there that science can't explain, like fate. I had to fight for myself, because I was sick of going to church and learning about a god I didn't believe in. Sick of listening to the preist go on and on about how great this god was. But I fought to not go anymore, and now am much happier knowing I stood up for myself when being forced into something I thought was wrong.

10 or 20 years? I have no clue where my government will be. Of course... if things keep going as-is, then I could see the government deteriorating over time. :/

I do think somewhat like V. I believe that freewill and the ability to make choices for yourself are a huge part of any government. People shouldn't live in terror of a dictator every day of their lives. I am not as radical as V, so to speak, but I believe in most of what he does.

And that will be the longest post I will write today. xD;;
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:32 am


i-am-upsidedown
The methods used were still the ones that are usually left for the bad guys. Ruthless killings and huge explosions are not viewed kindly by society.


The majority of the killing in both the graphic novel and movie was done in self-defense, and the only questionable murders in the story are those of the people who worked at Larkhill. We know Prothero, Bishop Lilliman, and Dr. Surridge are responsible for genocide on a national scale, but the debatable issue here is, "Are these people still entitled to a fair trial regardless of what they have done, or are the people they tortured entitled to act with a vengence towards them?"

In regards to the "huge explosions," as big as they may seem, there is still a curfew in effect in this society, and I would find it unlikely that someone was outside of his home and inexplicably decided to walk inside the Old Bailey or Parliament building at midnight. Also, in the case of the Parliament building, V gave London a notification of this demolition a year in advance, and the government banned anyone from coming near the building; once again, it is highly unlikely that any innocents died. Furthermore, unlike villains who would use explosives to incite fear and terror, V only used them as a means of destroying "propaganda symbols," a description which The Head made in the graphic novel, and motivating people to rebel against their oppressors.

i-am-upsidedown
But come to think of it, usually heroes are at least backed a bit by their government, while this one was working against it.


But those governing bodies or law enforcement agencies that hire heroes or work in accordance with them always uphold a general system of values which the intended audience should deem as "moral." V believes in the same values as those heroes, but his government is the polar opposite of what you are thinking of.

The_Wicked_Man


` C A F F I E N E

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:07 am



*What do you think about life; Coincidence or fate?
What we make it. If we're lazy in school, it's no one's fault but our one, right?

*Do you think about the world you live in in terms of right and wrong or do you think of it in terms of convenient or inconvenient?
Ze both. What's the best thing to do, that wouldn't wreck me?

*Could you ever stand up and fight for your opinion in an environment where almost everyone thinks differently or is too afraid to stand with you?
..No.

*Where do you see your country, politically, in 10 years? 20?
HEIL HITLER!
BUSH!

*Are you just in this guild for the novelty or do you think somewhat like V does?
I like V. I'm a fangirl!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:55 pm


*If you were a political activist would you create an image for yourself by wearing a costume? What would it look like?

Depends on what type of activist. If I decided that I was in danger, and that my work was important enough to hide for, then I would hide behind a mask or a costume. Otherwise, since my face is representative of who I am (i.e. not horribly deformed, or opposite of what I think I should look like), it seems to me to be horribly unsporting to hide like that.

*Are you satisfied with the government of the country you live in?

I believe the United States of America to have many good qualities, among which is the unlikely-hood of any outside force to ever invade and conquer the country while leaving anything to rule over. Every citizen has the right to own firearms and weapons, and each state has its own capital, constitution, and militia. That is enough to give any Napolean a headache.

*What do you think about life; Coincidence or fate?

I am an agnostic, both in religion and in life. That means that I hold that it is impossible to know, at least while you are alive. I suppose that in life, I would like to think that things have a purpose. Fate to me... in the sense that EVERYTHING you do is fated... is completely repulsive. That, however, is just me. I have a knee-jerk reaction against fate of that kind. The idea that everything is connected is obviously appealing; it gets rid of the drifting feeling, that everything is pointless. So, whether it exists or not, the idea is useful in human life. However, relying on fate is not useful, because you tend to sit around and wait for things to happen.
Conclusion: it is nice to believe in fate, of sorts, in philosophy, but impractical to follow it in life.

*Do you think about the world you live in in terms of right and wrong or do you think of it in terms of convenient or inconvenient?

For someone so cynical, I rely quite a lot on my own beliefs of right and wrong. My morals do not always coincide with society's views, but I have found some interesting parallels in my own strict rules to those of the "charitable religion" type of views. Therefore I believe myself to be living proof that religion is not crucial to morality. However, that is away from the point. Morality is key.

*Could you ever stand up and fight for your opinion in an environment where almost everyone thinks differently or is too afraid to stand with you?

Yes. Life, if that is all you have, is not worth it. Conviction for your ideals is everything. That makes me very unpopular in school, I must say. And I find it interesting that I think so, because I also believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and too often I stay out of arguments because I can see the merit in all sides. The two attitudes do not often go hand in hand, I've found, but once I have found a definite conviction, I am all the stronger in it.

*Where do you see your country, politically, in 10 years? 20?

Thankfully, the cyclical nature of my government means that anything could happen. Otherwise, I shudder to think. Looking at past governments, it seems to me that the best government is one that changes, swings and does not stagnate nor sway too far to any side.

*Are you just in this guild for the novelty or do you think somewhat like V does?

I am in this guild for the philosophy of it. Hence my love for this topic.




V seems to have different morals than many people do, but he is nonetheless very moral. I say this because it seems to me that his personal rules are quite strict.
Of course, one does have to wonder what revenge and saving the country have to do with one another; certainly it was not required to kill the people that he did. His assassinations were purely personal, it seemed. He saw himself as an avenging angel, almost.

The_Wicked_Man
We know Prothero, Bishop Lilliman, and Dr. Surridge are responsible for genocide on a national scale, but the debatable issue here is, "Are these people still entitled to a fair trial regardless of what they have done, or are the people they tortured entitled to act with a vengence towards them?"

Hence the reason that V is not a "good" guy, at least not personally. He has no motive beyond revenge for those killings. Then again, he probably does not even see it as revenge, but as justice rendered in a society where the government and the people would not punish wrongdoers. So who knows?

Kalile Alako


The_Wicked_Man

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:08 pm


Kalile Alako
The_Wicked_Man
We know Prothero, Bishop Lilliman, and Dr. Surridge are responsible for genocide on a national scale, but the debatable issue here is, "Are these people still entitled to a fair trial regardless of what they have done, or are the people they tortured entitled to act with a vengence towards them?"

Hence the reason that V is not a "good" guy, at least not personally. He has no motive beyond revenge for those killings. Then again, he probably does not even see it as revenge, but as justice rendered in a society where the government and the people would not punish wrongdoers. So who knows?


"Violence can be used for good . . . Justice."
-V


However, it's not so much that Sutler's government or the commonfolk would not punish those guilty of crimes and V merely wanted to make up for other people's inaction but more of a matter of V simply living by his anarchist philosophies.

We have to realize that V's ideal society has no governing body and, therefore, no judicial system. Consequently, in cases where an individual feels another person or a group of people (such as Prothero, Lilliman, and Surridge) have committed a great wrong against other people, it is up to that individual (in this case, V) to act as the accused's judge, jury, and executioner and carry out justice in whatever way he or she sees fit. That is what V believes is a fair judicial system, and if London is to accept anarchism, there would be a lot more of what V had been doing in those three cases.

Nonetheless, as I previously stated, what V interprets as a fair trial is an entirely debatable issue; however, it should not be deemed morally inappropriate just because the ethics behind vigilante justice are arguable. In another post in this topic, I stated that I do not believe V's methods are right, but I do see and recognize the existance of a second opinion which defends V's methods and beliefs. The answer to the question I asked within the text you quoted depends entirely on whatever political ideal you happen to believe in; the anarchist would agree with V's actions, but just about anyone else would not approve.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:05 am


V For V
RaZoeLynn
Quote:
*Could you ever stand up and fight for your opinion in an environment where almost everyone thinks differently or is too afraid to stand with you?


Hmm. I would like to think that I could easily stand by my ideals no matter what. I tend to fight my battles from the dark though. I like to help, but I don't like people knowing who it is that helped them. mrgreen
So if you were living with V or some other political activist, would you be the person who goes over and gives ideas to him/her? Or would you carry things out yourself but hide your identity?


Hmm. I would carry out the things and hide my identity. mrgreen Also helping with ideas where my opinions and help would be needed.

RaZoeLynn


V For V

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:47 pm


Do you believe V had connections in the government and society? That he knew train conductors, truckers, security guards, store clerks, and others who enabled him?
Reply
V for Vendetta

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