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 Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:29 pm
mourn_of_blades Mankind's greatest weapons are intelligence and the use of tools. Without those, we likely wouldn't live any differently from any other creature. If dragons are just as intelligent as we are, if not more so, then we lose that advantage. That only leaves tools, and our weapons were hard-pressed to cause them much harm, back in the day. What advantages are left to us? Honestly, I'd take out tool use, for two reasons. Primarily, it is merely an extension or manifestation of said intelligence, and secondly tool use isn't unique to humans, as chimps do it as well. It is also largely spread that dragons embody the dual forces of strength and intellect, so taking classical mythology into account, Matt's exactly right. We have no advantages against them. mourn_of_blades As long as your weapon is able to pierce the portion of skull behind the eye sockets. It may not be an especially thick or hard bit of bone, but with a creature of a dragon's size, it would still be something to take into account. Well, humans (and some other human-like creatures) have bony plates that keep the optic nerve in place, but lots of other creatures simply have simpler empty bone sockets. I don't know if it would be better to study saurian or reptile skulls as a better frame of reference, but I would make the somewhat educated guess that at least saurian skulls do not. There are actually extra gaps behind the sockets so it seems likely enough that their eye sockets were simpler. Now I can't say that I know for a fact that cartilage would always fossilize. Perhaps there were plates made of it in both those gaps or within the sockets, but I think that I'd have read about it, somewhere, as I have done at least some light and informal study on it. It's reasonable to assume that dragons would have similar sockets. Given the plethora of other natural defenses, it doesn't seem like it would be so large a weakness that enough of them would be killed off that they would evolve that way. Considering that it is most likely that they would initially be without it, (given that dinosaurs are the creatures most closely related to dinosaurs) they would likely just have simple-hole sockets. Besides, if you hit the eye in the center and just follow the optic nerve, provided that you're able to cleave the tendons, you'll hit the brain. The optic nerve is a straight line, extending directly backwards. mourn_of_blades Assuming you don't get crushed by the muscle contractions in the throat (not likely, but possible with larger specimens), and are able to bring your weapon to bear before you suffocate. Not much breathable air inside a living creature, you know. I guess I didn't so much mean the esophagus. I meant the internal parts closer to the mouth, more in the throat area, where it meets the base of the mouth. Guess I need to brush up on my anatomy. I should say though, in creatures large enough with muscles strong enough to crush a man the passage would likely be too large (even with muscles fully dilated and the passage fully contracted) that they would be too imprecise to actually crush a man. It would be possible for one to be flipped into a position where their neck could be broken, but that's about it. mourn_of_blades I would think the wing membranes would be much softer as well. Obviously, targeting them wouldn't cause any lethal, or even serious injury, but it would take the advantage of flight from the dragon. Assuming you tear it enough, and of course that the dragon flies. Though if you're close enough to do that, then it's clearly not putting that advantage to use... Personally, I would target the tongue before attempting to jump down a dragon's throat. The veins in the tongue are fairly significant, and not at all protected. If you were able to dodge for a few moments after severing it, you may be lucky enough that the dragon bleeds to death. You're right about the tongue. Even if bleeding to death takes too long, the probability of the creature drowning in its own blood is fairly high. You're also right about the wing membrane, but the damage could be much greater. If the dragon is in flight, or even has it's wing fully spread than the flesh would b pulled so tight that even piercing it with an arrow would create a hole much larger than the arrow's head, like cutting a woman's stocking and seeing the hole much larger when the material is spread. It would be possible for a single well-placed arrow (or bullet, or other projectile) and a lucky shot to completely rob a dragon of flight.
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:19 am
This has deviated far enough from the topic that it was better responded to here than where it was initially posted (in Matasoga's Philosophy). Hardly. The last post was made well over a year ago, so I think that it's safe to say that you aren't interrupting anything. Blackwire13 I don't think that dragons are entirely fictional since there are some rumors of fossils resembling dragons being found recently. Assuming that you are referring to something other than the dinosaurs that we've known about since before my life time, I'd be interested in seeing a link to a story that is so ground-breaking. Blackwire13 Spitting out fire? Nothing special. Giving that no animal does anything like that, I have to wonder if the flippant "Nothing special" was offered facetiously... Blackwire13 Who knows, maybe it has some organ similar to that of electric eels that generate electricity and an organ that produces some sort of flammable compound like gas in it's throat. Combine those two together and BAM! Instant fire breathing. With nature, almost anything is possible. You're reaching rather wildly, right now. There are no animals that create such highly flamable products that a charge no greater than that of the electric eel could ignite them, least of all in the mouth. The idea that a creature existed that was not only able to utilize but weaponize heretofore unheard of abilities asks far too much suspension of disbelief. Even with all that aside, the eel was able to surround itself with electricity, not shoot it, so even the idea of a purely electrical breath-weapon is impossible, even within the logic presented. Blackwire13 Grand Pianist had mentioned about The First Jade Emperor of China being protected by some dragon... Eastern dragons are emissaries of heaven. It's likely that the protection of a dragon was more symbolic or metaphorical intended to inspire awe and demonstrate divine favor and approval. I highly doubt that there was anything reptilian involved and the affair. Lest we become repetitious, I strongly suggest reading this thread in its entirety, if you wish to continue the debate.
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:56 am
Sorry bout that.. It's my first time posting after a long while. I just randomly chose a topic and posted there. As for the Electric Eel thing, What I had in mind was more of the gas being sprayed out and not the electricity. The electricity would be more of an igniter than the actual weapon itself. But in hindsight, it does still sound a bit implausible. As for the supposed 'dragon' fossil, here's a link. http://news.indonewyork.com/index.php?mod=article&cat=Mysteries&article=1550Not entirely sure if it's credible. Discovery Channel had an episode about dragon remains being found too or something like that.
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:15 pm
I wouldn't say so. Those just look like whale bones to me, and that they refuse to publicly show the horned skull they purportedly found just sounds too sketchy to hold any credit. Quote: Discovery Channel had an episode about dragon remains being found too or something like that. That was a fictional piece, if we're thinking of the same special. More of a "what if" than anything else.
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:50 pm
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:11 am
Do you disbelieve Matt? Don't disbelieve Matt, he knows things...and even if he only thought he knew things, he has knives. Lots of knives. d:
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:15 am
Saber Talawyrm Do you disbelieve Matt? Don't disbelieve Matt, he knows things...and even if he only thought he knew things, he has knives. Lots of knives. d: Oh really? I guess it seems we have something in common.
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:40 am
Saber Talawyrm Do you disbelieve Matt? Don't disbelieve Matt, he knows things...and even if he only thought he knew things, he has knives. Lots of knives. d: Even if I only think I know things, I at least convey them convincingly enough -- or at least coincidentally right -- to be believable. wink But then there are the knives. Knife-wielding sociopaths are always right. Or else.  Heh heh. q: Yeah... I would love to be proven wrong there, but with the number of hoaxes and just plain stupid people, doubt really should be the initial response. And I really don't see any differences between the bones in the article, and the whale skeletons my search showed. They didn't look old enough to be fossilized, anyway. Still, 'tis quite disappointing. neutral Quote: Oh really? I guess we have something in common after all. Oh? Which one?
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:47 am
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:49 am
I actually saw a documentary on Animal Planet a few weeks back about dragons. Archaeologists have actually found the remains of an unknown dinosaur that had a patch of burnt bone in the throat-part of the skeleton. Where they found it (somewhere in Canada) there were also human remains. Scientists theorize that there was a dinosaur that had a packet of minerals in its throat, which could produce fire. They say that these could be where the legends of dragons originated. Similar remains have been found in Colorado, Alaska, and Washington. The bones were on display for a few months at the Smithsonian, before being taken back for testing.
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:11 am
Eternally-X-Kaguya I actually saw a documentary on Animal Planet a few weeks back about dragons. Archaeologists have actually found the remains of an unknown dinosaur that had a patch of burnt bone in the throat-part of the skeleton. Where they found it (somewhere in Canada) there were also human remains. Scientists theorize that there was a dinosaur that had a packet of minerals in its throat, which could produce fire. They say that these could be where the legends of dragons originated. Similar remains have been found in Colorado, Alaska, and Washington. The bones were on display for a few months at the Smithsonian, before being taken back for testing. That sounds interesting. Do you remember what it was called?
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:17 am
Saber Talawyrm Eternally-X-Kaguya I actually saw a documentary on Animal Planet a few weeks back about dragons. Archaeologists have actually found the remains of an unknown dinosaur that had a patch of burnt bone in the throat-part of the skeleton. Where they found it (somewhere in Canada) there were also human remains. Scientists theorize that there was a dinosaur that had a packet of minerals in its throat, which could produce fire. They say that these could be where the legends of dragons originated. Similar remains have been found in Colorado, Alaska, and Washington. The bones were on display for a few months at the Smithsonian, before being taken back for testing. That sounds interesting. Do you remember what it was called? Not exactly. It was something like "Dragons: the fire-breathing dinos" or something like that.
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:33 am
Eternally-X-Kaguya Not exactly. It was something like "Dragons: the fire-breathing dinos" or something like that. Ah, I'd be interested to see it for myself.
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:36 am
Saber Talawyrm Eternally-X-Kaguya Not exactly. It was something like "Dragons: the fire-breathing dinos" or something like that. Ah, I'd be interested to see it for myself. If I find it again, I'll let you know.
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