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 Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:56 pm
Captain_Shinzo xxEverBluexx Lateralus es Helica Like Twilight, I'm of the opinion we were built on religious freedom, that this was the big next step forward in healing and the fact that so many people are offended by it and taking the wrong message blows my mind. Just one thing: These people have lost friends and family. Because of extremists. Whose reason is their religion. Yes, those people were practicing their religion wrong, but I don't think it's entirely outrageous for people who have lost someone to that, especially if they're still grieving, to be offended by this. It takes an incredible amount of maturity to forgive, even after years. This is from the link I posted: "That is a burial ground," said retired FDNY Deputy Chief Al Santora, referring to the fact that victims' remains were scattered for blocks.
I mean, this is just like them trying to build the Mosque in Tennessee or whatever. People had a fit then, they just didn't have much of a good reason compared to the reasons to this motion. It's pretty much a phobia to Islams, and even if you ARE a friend/family of a victim of 9/11, I'm pretty sure a decade would be enough to understand that Muslims aren't to blame, just Muslim extremists. Pain for the past shouldn't be a reason for hate.It's too close for comfort, I think, and I also don't think it's unreasonable for people to be upset over this. People have gotten upset over less. One Saudi Arabian Muslim I read about had a panic attack because a Zionist posted a picture of Muhammad as a pig. Her daughter had nightmares about it for months. That's overreacting. These people still have to deal with the fact they lost someone: children have grown up without parents, spouses have lost their loved ones, etc. It's a big hole, and it doesn't fade. I don't blame them at all for disliking this. @Apple: Yes, but it's not. The Taliban is far less tolerant then those people are being. They killed some Christian missionaries who were providing health services a little more then a week ago: http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/Taliban-Claims-Responsibility-for-Killing-Christian-Missionaries-100179814.html And all these people are doing is protesting. I think one group is far more wrong then the other.
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:32 pm
xxEverBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEverBluexx Lateralus es Helica Like Twilight, I'm of the opinion we were built on religious freedom, that this was the big next step forward in healing and the fact that so many people are offended by it and taking the wrong message blows my mind. Just one thing: These people have lost friends and family. Because of extremists. Whose reason is their religion. Yes, those people were practicing their religion wrong, but I don't think it's entirely outrageous for people who have lost someone to that, especially if they're still grieving, to be offended by this. It takes an incredible amount of maturity to forgive, even after years. This is from the link I posted: "That is a burial ground," said retired FDNY Deputy Chief Al Santora, referring to the fact that victims' remains were scattered for blocks.
I mean, this is just like them trying to build the Mosque in Tennessee or whatever. People had a fit then, they just didn't have much of a good reason compared to the reasons to this motion. It's pretty much a phobia to Islams, and even if you ARE a friend/family of a victim of 9/11, I'm pretty sure a decade would be enough to understand that Muslims aren't to blame, just Muslim extremists. Pain for the past shouldn't be a reason for hate.It's too close for comfort, I think, and I also don't think it's unreasonable for people to be upset over this. People have gotten upset over less. One Saudi Arabian Muslim I read about had a panic attack because a Zionist posted a picture of Muhammad as a pig. Her daughter had nightmares about it for months. That's overreacting. These people still have to deal with the fact they lost someone: children have grown up without parents, spouses have lost their loved ones, etc. It's a big hole, and it doesn't fade. I don't blame them at all for disliking this. @Apple: Yes, but it's not. The Taliban is far less tolerant then those people are being. They killed some Christian missionaries who were providing health services a little more then a week ago: http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/Taliban-Claims-Responsibility-for-Killing-Christian-Missionaries-100179814.html And all these people are doing is protesting. I think one group is far more wrong then the other. i'd say it isn't unexpected, it makes sense, and should have been obvious. but it's still unreasonable, Blue. but see, Shinzo, i think the original point here was that regardless of how rediculous it is for these people to be upset, it is still understandable. i know i was terrified when i saw the bombing! i was only 11! gonk yeh, i didn't hate Muslims for it, but i grew up in a household that was very tolerant of different religions, despite personal bias against christians it general, and my stepdad is Indian. i was raised to know better. typical american christian white folk aren't quite so understanding, and they are quick to judge and stereotype. so, again, i say it wasn't a smart idea to suggest building an Islamic ANYTHING anywhere NEAR Ground-0. but that sense they did, i still stand in Defense of their Right to do so. and Blue, as for the matter of tolerance.... i honestly am not about to even begin to compare the taliban to american christians. neither of them are being tolerant, and it's to the point of tyranny. ********, it's been their for generations, on either side.
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:00 am
xxEverBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEverBluexx Lateralus es Helica Like Twilight, I'm of the opinion we were built on religious freedom, that this was the big next step forward in healing and the fact that so many people are offended by it and taking the wrong message blows my mind. Just one thing: These people have lost friends and family. Because of extremists. Whose reason is their religion. Yes, those people were practicing their religion wrong, but I don't think it's entirely outrageous for people who have lost someone to that, especially if they're still grieving, to be offended by this. It takes an incredible amount of maturity to forgive, even after years. This is from the link I posted: "That is a burial ground," said retired FDNY Deputy Chief Al Santora, referring to the fact that victims' remains were scattered for blocks.
I mean, this is just like them trying to build the Mosque in Tennessee or whatever. People had a fit then, they just didn't have much of a good reason compared to the reasons to this motion. It's pretty much a phobia to Islams, and even if you ARE a friend/family of a victim of 9/11, I'm pretty sure a decade would be enough to understand that Muslims aren't to blame, just Muslim extremists. Pain for the past shouldn't be a reason for hate.It's too close for comfort, I think, and I also don't think it's unreasonable for people to be upset over this. People have gotten upset over less. One Saudi Arabian Muslim I read about had a panic attack because a Zionist posted a picture of Muhammad as a pig. Her daughter had nightmares about it for months. That's overreacting. These people still have to deal with the fact they lost someone: children have grown up without parents, spouses have lost their loved ones, etc. It's a big hole, and it doesn't fade. I don't blame them at all for disliking this. @Apple: Yes, but it's not. The Taliban is far less tolerant then those people are being. They killed some Christian missionaries who were providing health services a little more then a week ago: http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/Taliban-Claims-Responsibility-for-Killing-Christian-Missionaries-100179814.html And all these people are doing is protesting. I think one group is far more wrong then the other.
Yes, it takes a lot of maturity to forgive. But it only takes a little common sense to see that it's ridiculous that we're still expecting innocent people to beg for forgiveness in the first place.
As far as intolerance in the Middle East, do we, a country founded on religious freedom, want to hold ourselves to the standard of the Taliban?
Point is, it's easy for us to group together what we don't understand based on the trait that defines them as different. That doesn't change the fact that, no matter how we look at it, Muslims in New York City looking for a place to worship are not terrorists. If every religion had to take responsibility for every violent action done in their names, we would all be forced to atheism.
EDIT: @Twi: I just now realized that we're about the same age... Interesting.
That's it, I don't have any important comments or anything to add, I just decided to share that with everyone.
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:10 am
xd PHFAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
well, yeh, that is interesting. xd still funny in it's randomness. anywho, yeh.
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:23 am
XD Yeah, I do that. I was born with the attention span of a house fly.
But it's been a weird couple of weeks so I think I'm entitled to a little weirdness.
I just realized that I was in fifth grade. I was ten at the time, I guess, turning eleven in November, so you're probably less than a year older than me.
But anyway, I remember not really understanding the gravity of what happened. I didn't know what the Twin Towers were. And I remember that my mom was telling me what happened as if I understood. She mentioned something about the Pentagon. And I, still very confused, tried to picture the shape.
I had seen both buildings, I think, either in pictures or real life, but I was ten and all buildings looked the same and had the same significance.
I don't think I saw videos until much later.
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:46 am
well, i was born Feb 16, 1990. so i was technically closer to 12 then 11... sweatdrop but i didn't realy know that america had a World Trade Center, or a Pentagon, much less what those were.
i remember being woken up by my dad, and told to go watch the news. i get out to the living room, and there's a building on fire. i start reading the headlines, listening to the reporter.... i thought it was like a regular disaster, but they kept talking about a plane crash, an attack.... i was scared.
that was my first time ever realy realizing that people are willing to do crazy things just to hurt innocent people. just to seem scarey. to even kill themselves and others with them for something as simple as intimidation.
and i was overwhelmed by emotions. i felt frightened, confused, sad for the people killed, angry at the hijackers but also sorry for them, i was very angry at whoever would have convinced these young adults to do something like that...
and then, i got into politics. cause when bush said that he and cheney decided it was best to go to war in Iraq, it clicked in my head that they talked about needing oil, and about how america is relying on Iraq for oil, and all that stuff... it seemed fishy to me.
so... yeh, 9/11 was a very huge moment in my life.
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:16 am
I feel we need to consider another fact- 9/11 wasn't very bad.
Now, I know, it was tragic and awful and people died. But it wasn't even 3000 people. If we look at the civilians killed by Americans, it's in the millions. Hiroshima and Nagasaki, for example, killed equal to 100 or more 9/11's. Hell, we killed more CIVILIANS in our subsequent bombings of Afghanistan and Iraq than died in 9/11.
We b***h and moan and complain over this tiny scratch, because WE are America, the biggest and the best to ever exist. We're like the bully who justifies in his mind bloodying noses for lunch money, but we cry when we get hit back and get a bruise.
I'm frankly sick of this "never forget" 9/11 bullshit. What we've been through is NOTHING compared to the terror we've been unleash on the world since world war 2.
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:15 am
Yes, yes I understand that muslims committed the act, but that still doesn't change the fact that it wasn't the religion at large that made the attacks, it was a specific extremist group. After what we've done to other muslim countries I don't think it's unreasonable to try and attempt peace one small step at a time, and an Islamic Community Center in NYC is an excellent first step. I'm sorry I understand a ton of people lost family members and friends, hell I grew up in Washington DC and had to deal with soldiers with AK-47s at every highway stop, not to mention the number of people that lost family in the Pentagon. It's not at all that I'm cruel and heartless towards them, but I find it stupid and ridiculous that knowing it was the Taliban and not the religion at large that did this act people still try to point fingers at the entire religion. In the age of political correctness you'd figure we'd be above and beyond that by now but no. I think people at large are being unreasonable and just looking for someone to unleash their hate upon instead of worrying what we're going to do to fix the wounds that have been made.
(If that didn't come out as eloquently as I'd like, my excuse is I'm sitting at home sick off my a** because of an infection in my jaw.)
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:49 am
xxEverBluexx It's too close for comfort, I think, and I also don't think it's unreasonable for people to be upset over this. People have gotten upset over less. One Saudi Arabian Muslim I read about had a panic attack because a Zionist posted a picture of Muhammad as a pig. Her daughter had nightmares about it for months. That's overreacting. These people still have to deal with the fact they lost someone: children have grown up without parents, spouses have lost their loved ones, etc. It's a big hole, and it doesn't fade. I don't blame them at all for disliking this. @Apple: Yes, but it's not. The Taliban is far less tolerant then those people are being. They killed some Christian missionaries who were providing health services a little more then a week ago: http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/Taliban-Claims-Responsibility-for-Killing-Christian-Missionaries-100179814.html And all these people are doing is protesting. I think one group is far more wrong then the other. LOSS is something humans experience each day. That can be NO excuse for intolerance. And what do you mean by "too close for comfort"? Like they're going to take out their swords and start taking over Manhatten? Haha.... Dont want to see it? You dont have to. Because if you are at the 9/11 site, you cant see the Mosque at all. You have to literally WALK to the place in order to see it.  Also, I'd like to leave you all with a thought...Do you know how many Muslims died in 9/11? Firemen, police responders, victims on the plane, victims in the tower...Manhatten has always been a mixed city, Muslims have always been there. And that day, we experienced loss also. Not just Jews, Christians, Hindus, but Muslims. Just for example: Touri Bolourchi, a nurse from Iran who died on one of the taken planes. Mohammad S. Chowdhury, who worked at Windows on the World, the restaurant in the building. Nasima Simjee, who was there that day at work at Fiduciary Trust International. So many people hate Muslims for 9/11, and totally disregard the loss that Muslim families experience also.
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:05 am
divineseraph I feel we need to consider another fact- 9/11 wasn't very bad. Now, I know, it was tragic and awful and people died. But it wasn't even 3000 people. If we look at the civilians killed by Americans, it's in the millions. Hiroshima and Nagasaki, for example, killed equal to 100 or more 9/11's. Hell, we killed more CIVILIANS in our subsequent bombings of Afghanistan and Iraq than died in 9/11. We b***h and moan and complain over this tiny scratch, because WE are America, the biggest and the best to ever exist. We're like the bully who justifies in his mind bloodying noses for lunch money, but we cry when we get hit back and get a bruise. I'm frankly sick of this "never forget" 9/11 bullshit. What we've been through is NOTHING compared to the terror we've been unleash on the world since world war 2. dude, what the ********!? scream this isn't a competition, it isn't about relative damage! 9/11 was still bad, even if it is nothing compared to the rest of the world! i don't think we need to compare it to anything! acts of terrorism are meant to frighten and demoralize people. and 9/11 did that, obviously. the damage isn't all in deaths. it's in the little details, the social division, the fear, the racism, the religious persecution, all the things that come with fear. my family went from middle class to lower class in all of 48 hours when 9/11 happened, BECAUSE MY STEPDAD WAS INDIAN AND AN IMMIGRANT!! that is a product of FEAR! that is an example of the damage inflicted during 9/11! so i sympathize, very strongly, with the people who oppose these Islamic presences. i don't agree with them, i think they are being stupid and wrong. but i understand why they are so afraid! and i still feel the sting of 9/11, and always will! so DON"T pass it off so lightly! evil it IS serious, and it IS a huge and festering wound!
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:18 am
I don't understand what is so difficult about this. It wasn't the muslims that attacked the World Trade Center. That's all there is to it, and if somebody's so offended by people practicing their religion, that's bigotry. It was't the muslims that attacked the World Trade Center.
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:24 pm
divineseraph I feel we need to consider another fact- 9/11 wasn't very bad. Now, I know, it was tragic and awful and people died. But it wasn't even 3000 people. If we look at the civilians killed by Americans, it's in the millions. Hiroshima and Nagasaki, for example, killed equal to 100 or more 9/11's. Hell, we killed more CIVILIANS in our subsequent bombings of Afghanistan and Iraq than died in 9/11. We b***h and moan and complain over this tiny scratch, because WE are America, the biggest and the best to ever exist. We're like the bully who justifies in his mind bloodying noses for lunch money, but we cry when we get hit back and get a bruise. I'm frankly sick of this "never forget" 9/11 bullshit. What we've been through is NOTHING compared to the terror we've been unleash on the world since world war 2.
Sure, I admit 9/11 is treated pretty harshly and bigger than what it really is. That doesn't mean it wasn't bad.
All the above is stating if 9/11 eleven WAS by extremist Muslims. I'm not too sure who, what, or how it happened, but I want to figure out why the buildings fell. I mean, a couple of planes couldn't have made it crash, and the buildings fell on top of itself like demolition experts do. Not to mention the benders were cut diagnollay in half and the benders would have to be melted with some serious a** heat if they were to bend well enough to fall. Say, thermite? I don't know of many planes that carry thermite.
Then again, I'm not saying that Muslim extremists didn't do it, it just seems bigger than what it looks like.
Crap, my big rants are big.
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:29 pm
Captain_Shinzo divineseraph I feel we need to consider another fact- 9/11 wasn't very bad. Now, I know, it was tragic and awful and people died. But it wasn't even 3000 people. If we look at the civilians killed by Americans, it's in the millions. Hiroshima and Nagasaki, for example, killed equal to 100 or more 9/11's. Hell, we killed more CIVILIANS in our subsequent bombings of Afghanistan and Iraq than died in 9/11. We b***h and moan and complain over this tiny scratch, because WE are America, the biggest and the best to ever exist. We're like the bully who justifies in his mind bloodying noses for lunch money, but we cry when we get hit back and get a bruise. I'm frankly sick of this "never forget" 9/11 bullshit. What we've been through is NOTHING compared to the terror we've been unleash on the world since world war 2.
Sure, I admit 9/11 is treated pretty harshly and bigger than what it really is. That doesn't mean it wasn't bad.
All the above is stating if 9/11 eleven WAS by extremist Muslims. I'm not too sure who, what, or how it happened, but I want to figure out why the buildings fell. I mean, a couple of planes couldn't have made it crash, and the buildings fell on top of itself like demolition experts do. Not to mention the benders were cut diagnollay in half and the benders would have to be melted with some serious a** heat if they were to bend well enough to fall. Say, thermite? I don't know of many planes that carry thermite.
Then again, I'm not saying that Muslim extremists didn't do it, it just seems bigger than what it looks like.
Crap, my big rants are big.:supports the theory that d**k cheney staged it all.: ninja
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Captain_Shinzo I mean, a couple of planes couldn't have made it crash, and the buildings fell on top of itself like demolition experts do. Not quite, if you watch the videos. It would have to be a VERY sloppy demolition. Or, most likely, not a demolition at all. Captain_Shinzo Not to mention the benders were cut diagnollay in half and the benders would have to be melted with some serious a** heat if they were to bend well enough to fall. Those diagonal cuts were done during clean-up ... Captain_Shinzo Say, thermite? I don't know of many planes that carry thermite. Bah, here you go http://www.debunking911.com/Enjoy razz
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:02 pm
Artto Captain_Shinzo I mean, a couple of planes couldn't have made it crash, and the buildings fell on top of itself like demolition experts do. Not quite, if you watch the videos. It would have to be a VERY sloppy demolition. Or, most likely, not a demolition at all. Captain_Shinzo Not to mention the benders were cut diagnollay in half and the benders would have to be melted with some serious a** heat if they were to bend well enough to fall. Those diagonal cuts were done during clean-up ... Captain_Shinzo Say, thermite? I don't know of many planes that carry thermite. Bah, here you go http://www.debunking911.com/Enjoy razz
I like the information, it actually did help quite a bit on cleaning up some muggy ideas. However, the big problem I still don't get is the falling of the building. Don't get me wrong, that would have to be a sloppy demolition if it was, but the building collapses on itself so easily, when a building shouldn't do that if it was bombarded by some planes. Then there was the owner, or employee maybe, explaining people going into the building at night for about an entire week before 9/11. My idea was that it was just an add-on to increase the effects but I digress, something wasn't right about the falling.
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