|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:29 pm
No. It's not. It's like saying every Christian that isn't baptized is going to hell. You could compare the two on that, as far as I'm concerned. I have been taught by initiates themselves who I have gotten this from. I very much dislike those who take Wicca and make it the way they want to.
I am just unsure on the initiation part.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:43 pm
As I understand it, Wicca is orthopraxic. Therefore, correct practice is more important than correct belief. Without initiation, you cannot know the Mysteries, which are essential to practicing Wicca. Ergo, without the Mysteries, you cannot practice Wicca.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:10 pm
Yanueh As I understand it, Wicca is orthopraxic. Therefore, correct practice is more important than correct belief. Without initiation, you cannot know the Mysteries, which are essential to practicing Wicca. Ergo, without the Mysteries, you cannot practice Wicca. Then what does a person do who cannot find a coven to be initiated in?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:33 pm
Whatever they like! There's nobody saying that an eclectic neopagan path (which is what most teenagers claiming to be Wiccans are following) is any less valid than Wicca; just that it shouldn't be mislabeled as such because it's inappropriate and disrespectful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:45 pm
Yanueh Whatever they like! There's nobody saying that an eclectic neopagan path (which is what most teenagers claiming to be Wiccans are following) is any less valid than Wicca; just that it shouldn't be mislabeled as such because it's inappropriate and disrespectful. You know...I've been battling with this for awhile...I wonder sometimes if I am just an eclectic neopagan because of my disagreement with the initiation part. Perhaps that is what I fit under...because all my other beliefs EXCEPT that fit with it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:36 pm
Loona Wynd Rizu-Sensei i'm sorry. it just doesn't make sense to me how he created a religion, but can't call himself a member of that religion. To the one that I serve Gardner is Wiccan. Gardner was the first Wiccan. There was no Wicca prior to Gardner. I will give my all isnt Wicca just a nice word for witch or sorcerer, and used to be negative in the old days. Therefore couldn't a poop-throwing monkey call themselves Wiccan if they so desire, since the word is older than the religion??
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:44 pm
I understand the rules of Wicca and all that jazz. I was a neo-pagan who prefers the Wiccan path. I am seeking a coven to join, but living in a Christian town makes it a little hard. I WILL call myself Wiccan, because first: it is easier to explain second: it is my will and desire to use the title. I feel Wicca though it is not very old, but it is evolving, even now, to the point of being beyond covens. I really don't care you say I am wrong. Yes I am aware I am more of a Pagan, whatever, I am dedicated to what I believe.
BTW Loona please don't EVER post a forum in the main area. It is against this guild's rules. I do understand that this subject is important, but this belongs in the member created forums. Thanks. By my rules, this forum should be deleted, but I will let is slide.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:20 pm
AkashaHecate You know...I've been battling with this for awhile...I wonder sometimes if I am just an eclectic neopagan because of my disagreement with the initiation part. Perhaps that is what I fit under...because all my other beliefs EXCEPT that fit with it. You probably are. There's nothing wrong with calling yourself an 'eclectic neo-pagan'; in my opinion, it's the intellectually honest thing to do, plus it prevents the word "Wicca" from becoming relatively meaningless. KasaChan isnt Wicca just a nice word for witch or sorcerer, and used to be negative in the old days. Therefore couldn't a poop-throwing monkey call themselves Wiccan if they so desire, since the word is older than the religion?? Nope, it's not. While Wiccans are witches, they are a specific type of witch - specifically, the type that follows the path/religion of Wicca. There are many religions that involve witches (eg, Vodou), and they ain't Wicca.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:26 pm
Then where did the word Wicca come from? I believe the word Wicca created the word witch, so wouldn't the word be older than the religion by default?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:28 am
I have a problem with Gardner. My problem is that from what I've read about him he didn't actually create Wicca, in fact a lot of it he took from Druidic rites and relabeled it, and he just made it popular. A lot of Druids from Gerald Gardner's time didn't like him because he often made things up, and then took aspects of their rites, called it "Wicca" which was already around by then, and promoted the hell out of it. Druidism has been around for a lot longer than Wicca has too (though Wicca was around before Gerald Gardner got ahold of it), in fact it started with the Masons and branched out from there, which is one reason why ceremony is often a big part of what is often considered "traditional" in Wicca. I don't remember the etymology for the word "Wicca" offhand but I have it in a book somewhere around here. If you want to read about the etymology and the meaning of the word (of which there are many), check out Issac Bonewits' Essential Guide to Witchcraft and Wicca, one of the very first chapters breaks it down.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:55 am
To the one that I serve KasaChan isnt Wicca just a nice word for witch or sorcerer, and used to be negative in the old days. Therefore couldn't a poop-throwing monkey call themselves Wiccan if they so desire, since the word is older than the religion?? Well you see the word has rots in Anglo-Saxon witchcraft. So if a male anglo-saxon witch wanted to they could call themselves a wicca, and women woulc call themselves wicce. Wicca was never the name of a religion till Gardner named his witchcult Wicca. I will give my all
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:00 am
To the one that I serve AkashaHecate I am just unsure on the initiation part. Initiation is very much a part of Wicca. If you are not comfortable with initiation then you should be looking at other witchcraft traditions. There are many traditions which allow for self dedication and what they call "self initiation", so don't feel limited to Wicca. There are other paths out there! I will give my all
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:09 am
To the one that I serve KasaChan I understand the rules of Wicca and all that jazz. I was a neo-pagan who prefers the Wiccan path. How can you prefer the Wiccan path when you don't even learn what the path entails till after initiation? KasaChan I am seeking a coven to join, but living in a Christian town makes it a little hard. Have you tried looking on Amber and Jet? It's a Wiccan mailing list that also helps seekers find covens in their area. KasaChan I WILL call myself Wiccan, because first: it is easier to explain But you haven't earned the right to call yourself Wiccan. You don't have the initiation nor do you know the rites and rituals or the names of the Gods. You are a seeker of Wicca, but not Wiccan. KasaChan second: it is my will and desire to use the title. titles need to be earned. You have not earned the title yet. Please don;t use it. By using the title Wiccan you harm the religion that Wiccans have sworn an oath to preserve and protect. Real Wiccans do not like nonwiccans calling themselves Wiccan as it muddies the waters and makes it harder for seekers to find their way to the Gods of Wicca. KasaChan I feel Wicca though it is not very old, but it is evolving, even now, to the point of being beyond covens. I really don't care you say I am wrong. Yes I am aware I am more of a Pagan, whatever, I am dedicated to what I believe. But the thing is with out the context of initiation and the proper covens, the rituals of Wicca don't make sense. The rituals of Wicca can not change. The rites of Wicca are set in stone. Change the rituals you make them no longer Wiccan. This is a religion based on proper practice, not belief. KasaChan
BTW Loona please don't EVER post a forum in the main area. It is against this guild's rules. I do understand that this subject is important, but this belongs in the member created forums. Thanks. By my rules, this forum should be deleted, but I will let is slide. I'm sorry. I must have missed that. I'll PM you about a thread I want to make, because( I'm not sure if you would want it here or in the member created forums) I will give my all
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:18 am
To the one that I serve KasaChan Then where did the word Wicca come from? I believe the word Wicca created the word witch, so wouldn't the word be older than the religion by default? Well wicca was the name of an anglo Saxon male witch, but it fell out of useage. Thus Gardner recoined the term to mean his witchcult. I will give my all
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:08 am
I just don't understand, since you Loona, are not Wiccan why does it matter so deeply to make people feel like idiots who don't understand anything. I am aware I use the name out of context, I knew that, it's what I prefer, it's my choice, if I piss people off then so be it. But I think why people get so worked up on this subject is when people get b***h-slapped with facts on why they are wrong, you have to expect people to get defensive. I really think this whole subject could have been handled more nicely. I am sure you are trying to get your point across, but I think this thread makes you seem a little aggressive. I see my guildys hunched up in the corner with their fur sticking up hissing, while attacked by a rather large dog. I could be wrong. If I am I apologise.
All I wanted out of this guild was liked minded people to exchange stories, and the like, not make people feel like idiots, there are other guilds that are more than willing to do that.
And I will try to use the generic term Witch more than Wiccan, but no promises to my redneck towns people. They hear Witch or Pagan they think Satan worshipper, but for some reason when I say Wiccan it just isnt that bad.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
