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 Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:22 pm
If one of the guys in my unit was homosexual (I don't think there are any, but once again people like to keep their sexuality to themselves) was hit, then I would go back and pick him up. Like the warrior ethos says, I will never leave a fallen comrade behind.
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:18 pm
How come when I think about this whole 'gays being in the military' thing, I imagine straight men running dowards the enemy and homosexuals running away? stare
I think it's o'kay to let them in. Why not? Just don't be in it for the wrong reasons. rolleyes
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:19 pm
IndefiniteMatter If one of the guys in my unit was homosexual (I don't think there are any, but once again people like to keep their sexuality to themselves) was hit, then I would go back and pick him up. Like the warrior ethos says, I will never leave a fallen comrade behind.
Excellent point. 3nodding
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:52 pm
Yondara the ChaosMage pimpkilla2 Wendigo Was a bad idea posing as a solution to a problem, yes. Personally, I don't see any reason for a soldier's sexual orientation to affect anything. Not like "homosexual" means "rapist," or "traitor to the country," or whatever, any more than "heterosexual" does. Elite076 It would distract the rest of the non gay troops fighting wars. How would it do that? pk2 if openly gay people are oppressed minorities as you claim, then logic would lead to the conclusion that they would be put in all gay units or in seperate fighting squads segregated Like we do for black soldiers and woman soldiers? if it honestly doesnt mean as much as you say it does, then what is the problem? its simple, the military if you want to serve in it, does not let gays in, but unlike being black, gay is not a skin color and you can only be homosexual if you openly admit it, so why does it matter if they dont admit it? And you can hide you race, and appear to be white, as well. And change the appearance of your physical identity. thats ******** stupid sorry i just had to come out and say it people can identify you by race, you know on the college application forms, when the police put on an apb, when the news says something, its a black male, or a white male, or an asian male they dont say gay male, becuase gay is a demeaner, you can act it, thats ultimatly how you can figure out if someones gay or not, either that or they come out and tell you so as long as they dont intentionaly act flamboyant, and as long as they dont wear rainbow colored rain jacket and versachi combat boots, what the ******** is the problem
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:54 pm
Wendigo Th' problem is that there is no reason to refuse gay soldiers from serving. If they want to, and they're capable of it, why should the military refuse? thats just it, the military doesnt in fact they dont care so much if gays serve in fact that they dont ask their sexual preference in the first place in the line of duty, why does it matter if a gay person openly expresses themselves me, i wouldnt care id be like "hey shut the ******** up, i dont care if your a f** at least your in the military" i think the military has the same stance, they say "hey we dont give a ********, if you ******** jacob on your own time we dont give a damn, just leave that s**t at home where it belongs" get it now?
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:57 pm
A_L_R pimpkilla2 its simple, the military if you want to serve in it, does not let gays in, but unlike being black, gay is not a skin color and you can only be homosexual if you openly admit it, so why does it matter if they dont admit it? Reverse the situation, imagine you had to pretend to be gay to get into the military, and tell me you wouldn't be screaming discrimination. ??????? what? thats just it, they dont have to pretend to do anything, they just have to remain neutral, that way everyone assumes your strait if i had to be in a gay military, well id deal with it, wed all get ISSUED (thats right its all the same) the same crap as everyone else, id just not talk about it and not complain when they handed me rainbow colored camo jackets DUH
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:13 am
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:34 am
All of you bare in mind that the US Military DOES let homosexuals and bisexuals in the military. It's just that they don't want the homosexuals or bisexuals to actually tell that their sex or discuss relationships, etc.
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:56 am
Except that if the military ever finds out that you're gay, you're out.
Even if you're an Arabic-speaking linguist.
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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:58 pm
A_L_R pimpkilla2 A_L_R pimpkilla2 its simple, the military if you want to serve in it, does not let gays in, but unlike being black, gay is not a skin color and you can only be homosexual if you openly admit it, so why does it matter if they dont admit it? Reverse the situation, imagine you had to pretend to be gay to get into the military, and tell me you wouldn't be screaming discrimination. thats just it, they dont have to pretend to do anything, they just have to remain neutral, that way everyone assumes your strait You just contradicted yourself in the space of one sentence, good job! As you've confirmed, gays/bisexuals/pansexuals/whatever have to, under current military rules, pretend to be straight. It isn't a "stay neutral" approach; they will outright be removed if try that (as it's basically an admission of not being ******** Clinton. i didnt contradict myself pretending to be strait is easy, as you will agree not all queers are a** hungry booty ninjas, so i can assume that they wont pop wood in the shower and they arent going to put the move on anyone for two reasons -its unprofessional and they will be kicked out (same reason why the military doesnt bunk males and females together) -they will get stomped by some less understanding members of the service so, with this they can just show no sexual preference and it would be assumed that they are strait to begin with, correct? as we have affirmed you cant hide your skin color, you can hide your sexual identity simply by not expressing it, see the military does let gays in, they dont let openly gay members serve, in fact they dont let openly heterosexual members serve either (well i guess they do if they are married, but since gay marrige is not legal either i dont see this being a problem) so i will put this in terms you can understand, i wont even equate this example to fags anyhow ok, stan belongs to the gang the young bloods, he has no tattoos and the only way you are able to identify him with that gang is if he says hes with them or he wears their symbol, lets say its the number 5 he is suddenly going to be moved to a different school, he still lives in the same place so at home he can retain his gang status at the school however, all the members who go are of the rival gang, lets call them the eraserheads (i like that movie), the eraserheads tatoo is well, an eraser now, the school has a no gang policy, so no one there is allowed to wear their own clothes and they are all ISSUED uniforms (sounds familiar doesnt it?) but, its still apparrent that nearly 96% of that school belongs to the eraserhead gang now, if stan is discovered to be a member of the young bloods, he will A)get capped by come eraserheads B)get expelled by the school since stan has no tattoos (and since gays arent branded a queer and gay is pretty much determined by you openly admitting it and/or your demeanor and wear) and stan has to wear a uniform, all he has to do is not pretend to be a member of the eraserheads, but not act like a young blood either, rather he should act like a student and go there to learn same thing with the military its not about acting gay or strait its about acting like a ******** soilder geez wendigo, you usualy put up a better fight than this, im disappointed in the fact that you have to accuse me of contradicting myself and rather than give a clear and coherent solution to this problem, you just attack my stance, which i have just laid out logicaly why the dont ask dont tell policy has been instituted, hell i even made up an example now, can you refute my reason? and can you do it in a manner that i could understand (cause you know, im just a slow southern boy)
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:37 pm
Openly heterosexual soldiers are allowed to serve. And, in fact, they're allowed to have heterosexual sex. On their own time, with non-soldiers. Homosexual soldiers cannot. Discovery would mean discharge. Quote: geez wendigo, you usualy put up a better fight than this, im disappointed in the fact that you have to accuse me of contradicting myself Where'd I say that? You're just wrong. You haven't contradicted yourself, your logic is simply inconsistent. A homosexual soldier is free to pretend to be heterosexual (or eunuchs, whatever) in order to avoid being drummed out of the service, therefore homosexuals are not discriminated against? That doesn't even make sense. Quote: and rather than give a clear and coherent solution to this problem, ...Like allowing homosexuals to serve in the military the same as anyone else, without the risk of being dismissed from service if their sexual preferences are ever discovered? As simple a solution as could be. Quote: you just attack my stance, Yes, I do. Your stance is not reasonable. The claims you have made to support it are not reasonable. Therefore, you should revise your argument to make it a reasonable one.
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:47 pm
Quote: Openly heterosexual soldiers are allowed to serve. And, in fact, they're allowed to have heterosexual sex. On their own time, with non-soldiers. Homosexual soldiers cannot. Discovery would mean discharge. ok, whats your point how would they get discovered? how would problems arise, i see no difference in the situation of the homosexuals and the heterosexuals its simple realy, when in the uniform, no ******** period when out of the uniform, its your own damn business is it not? Quote: Where'd I say that? You're just wrong. You haven't contradicted yourself, your logic is simply inconsistent. A homosexual soldier is free to pretend to be heterosexual (or eunuchs, whatever) in order to avoid being drummed out of the service, therefore homosexuals are not discriminated against? That doesn't even make sense. i am not wrong, they ARE NOT ******** DISCRIMINATED AGAINST gee, let me think, have you ever considered joining the military? d you have close family and friends in the military? do you know alot about the military? let me explain something, you joining is a personal choice, when you njoin you agree upon a set of doctrines and must abide by a contract, even if you dont like the rules you can only discriminate against someone if they dont have a choice in the matter, so with a gay person signing that contract, he accepts the fact he is not allowed to openly serve as a queer, its as simple as that, now if he wants to change the rules fine by me, all hes doing though is cancelling out my vote (lucky for me my position is in favor right now) the military is not an equal organization, in fact they kick people out just for the sake of it (******** clinton and his military shrinking legislation) its the best of the best for a reason, and if a person cant hack it because they feel it interferes with their lifestyle choice, well to bad thats how things work, its not eqaul its fair though now i personaly think that it doesnt go against any law or rules, in fact i think its the right course of action, lets compare straight soilder-makes up the vast majority of servicemen/women, arent allowed to dress differently, in fact their opinions dont matter because a soilder while in uniform cant protest even, they signed into a contract that they are obligated to follow, even if they dont like the rules queer soilder-signs same contract and must follow the same rules, out of uniform no one gives a ********, but while serving in uncle sams military they are expected to conduct themselves accordingly both of these groups are the same, do you know why the dont ask dont tell policy was initialy instituted? so the army wouldnt have to deal with recognizing a soilder by his sexual orientation, they want a uniform and conformed group, if they had to seperate them or class them even more specifily that would just complicate things see, why do you think the military holds a 70-75% conservative opinion living as a civilian? why do you think that most of the people for the abolition of the dont ask dont tell policy are the same ones who are against the military, in other words they dont understand it, see the military is alot smarter than you would give them credit for, they have thought this out alot, still i dont see how this is discrimination, are they denied their basic rights? are they denied their constitution? dont think so Quote: ...Like allowing homosexuals to serve in the military the same as anyone else, without the risk of being dismissed from service if their sexual preferences are ever discovered? As simple a solution as could be. i just showed you that they already have it the same, the goal of the military is to train civilians and conform them into an effective and similar fighting unit Quote: Yes, I do. Your stance is not reasonable. The claims you have made to support it are not reasonable. Therefore, you should revise your argument to make it a reasonable one. my stance is to reasonable, your the one with a radical ideaological approach, so how are my ideas not understandable also, me revise my logic, im not going to compromise, i like it just the way it is to me it is reasonable and makes sense
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:05 pm
pimpkilla2 Yondara the ChaosMage pimpkilla2 Wendigo Was a bad idea posing as a solution to a problem, yes. Personally, I don't see any reason for a soldier's sexual orientation to affect anything. Not like "homosexual" means "rapist," or "traitor to the country," or whatever, any more than "heterosexual" does. Elite076 It would distract the rest of the non gay troops fighting wars. How would it do that? pk2 if openly gay people are oppressed minorities as you claim, then logic would lead to the conclusion that they would be put in all gay units or in seperate fighting squads segregated Like we do for black soldiers and woman soldiers? if it honestly doesnt mean as much as you say it does, then what is the problem? its simple, the military if you want to serve in it, does not let gays in, but unlike being black, gay is not a skin color and you can only be homosexual if you openly admit it, so why does it matter if they dont admit it? And you can hide you race, and appear to be white, as well. And change the appearance of your physical identity. thats ******** stupid sorry i just had to come out and say it people can identify you by race, you know on the college application forms, when the police put on an apb, when the news says something, its a black male, or a white male, or an asian male they dont say gay male, becuase gay is a demeaner, you can act it, thats ultimatly how you can figure out if someones gay or not, either that or they come out and tell you so as long as they dont intentionaly act flamboyant, and as long as they dont wear rainbow colored rain jacket and versachi combat boots, what the ******** is the problem Last time I checked, all you had to do was get a simple procedure to change your apparent race. You fail at this rebuttle. Try again.
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:27 pm
Yondara the ChaosMage pimpkilla2 Yondara the ChaosMage pimpkilla2 Wendigo Was a bad idea posing as a solution to a problem, yes. Personally, I don't see any reason for a soldier's sexual orientation to affect anything. Not like "homosexual" means "rapist," or "traitor to the country," or whatever, any more than "heterosexual" does. How would it do that? Like we do for black soldiers and woman soldiers? if it honestly doesnt mean as much as you say it does, then what is the problem? its simple, the military if you want to serve in it, does not let gays in, but unlike being black, gay is not a skin color and you can only be homosexual if you openly admit it, so why does it matter if they dont admit it? And you can hide you race, and appear to be white, as well. And change the appearance of your physical identity. thats ******** stupid sorry i just had to come out and say it people can identify you by race, you know on the college application forms, when the police put on an apb, when the news says something, its a black male, or a white male, or an asian male they dont say gay male, becuase gay is a demeaner, you can act it, thats ultimatly how you can figure out if someones gay or not, either that or they come out and tell you so as long as they dont intentionaly act flamboyant, and as long as they dont wear rainbow colored rain jacket and versachi combat boots, what the ******** is the problem Last time I checked, all you had to do was get a simple procedure to change your apparent race. You fail at this rebuttle. Try again. huh? your race is determined at birth, its not like a last name, you can alter your appearance and chnage your skin color through plastic surgery, but you will still belong to the same group you were born into
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:28 pm
pimpkilla2 Quote: Openly heterosexual soldiers are allowed to serve. And, in fact, they're allowed to have heterosexual sex. On their own time, with non-soldiers. Homosexual soldiers cannot. Discovery would mean discharge. ok, whats your point That this is discrimination. A distinction which should be immaterial being made between people who should be treated equally, but are not. Quote: how would they get discovered? They could be followed; they could be overheard arranging a liaison; any number of ways. It happens. You think that everybody who's been dismissed over this so far has jumped on top of the general's humvee and shouted "LOOK AT ME, UNITED STATES MILITARY, I AM GAY AS A JAYBIRD"? Quote: how would problems arise, i see no difference in the situation of the homosexuals and the heterosexuals its simple realy, when in the uniform, no ******** period when out of the uniform, its your own damn business is it not? Should be. That is not the case, evidently. Quote: i am not wrong, they ARE NOT ******** DISCRIMINATED AGAINST Oh yes? When's the last time in your memory that a heterosexual soldier was dismissed when it was discovered that he or she was a heterosexual, practicing or otherwise? Quote: gee, let me think, have you ever considered joining the military? Considered, yes. I have certain health concerns that would make it difficult, though. Quote: d you have close family and friends in the military? Would both my parents and an uncle or two count, or are we going for an ad hominem, here? Quote: do you know alot about the military? A fair bit more than your average schmuck, I would say, though not nearly as much as the real military buffs. Quote: let me explain something, you joining is a personal choice, So you believe everyone but yourself to be retarded, I take it. Yes, it's a personal choice. Quote: when you njoin you agree upon a set of doctrines and must abide by a contract, even if you dont like the rules Which is why many of us believe that this particular rule should die. And why not? What would it hurt for those who are openly homosexual to be able to join the military? Quote: you can only discriminate against someone if they dont have a choice in the matter, ... Like in the workplace? Employment being a contract voluntarily entered into by employer and employee, of course. Quote: so with a gay person signing that contract, he accepts the fact he is not allowed to openly serve as a queer, its as simple as that, now if he wants to change the rules fine by me, all hes doing though is cancelling out my vote (lucky for me my position is in favor right now) Somebody's canceling out somebody's vote, anyway. Looks to me like the "fags" and "queers" are having their votes canceled by the likes of you. Quote: the military is not an equal organization, in fact they kick people out just for the sake of it (******** clinton and his military shrinking legislation) Not right now they don't, what with the war on. Quote: its the best of the best for a reason, Haw. Quote: and if a person cant hack it because they feel it interferes with their lifestyle choice, well to bad thats how things work, its not eqaul its fair though Choice? Who says it's a choice? Quote: both of these groups are the same, do you know why the dont ask dont tell policy was initialy instituted? To deflate an emerging controversy. If memory serves, a decorated officer came out and retired, and it was making the rounds. Can't remember his name, though. Quote: see, why do you think the military holds a 70-75% conservative opinion living as a civilian? It don't abide "thinking outside the box." Quote: why do you think that most of the people for the abolition of the dont ask dont tell policy are the same ones who are against the military, in other words they dont understand it, Keh. Quote: see the military is alot smarter than you would give them credit for, they have thought this out alot, KEH. Let me clue you in, pard. My parents were MI; there was this little joke they'd make among themselves (the MI, that is, not my parents in particular); Military Intelligence? That's an oxymoron, isn't it? Quote: still i dont see how this is discrimination, are they denied their basic rights? are they denied their constitution? dont think so Well, that depends on your opinion on what "equal protection under the law" means, I suppose. Quote: i just showed you that they already have it the same, No, you just showed that you believe a "f**" smuggling him or herself into the military to be approximately equivalent to a heterosexual joining up the conventional way. That showed your attitude on military "queers," it demonstrated nothing about equality. Quote: the goal of the military is to train civilians and conform them into an effective and similar fighting unit Basically. Similar is just a means to effective, though. Quote: my stance is to reasonable, your the one with a radical ideaological approach, so how are my ideas not understandable I'm not the one with a cute little pet name for people who are different from me, now am I, mister radical ideology? Quote: also, me revise my logic, im not going to compromise, i like it just the way it is to me it is reasonable and makes sense Yes, I know that you're afraid of change. Thank you for pointing that out.
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