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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:08 pm
Labor could be optional. If the criminal took initiative and singed up for it then their jail time could be shortened. In real life no one will tell the criminals what to do, so if we make jails that way they would serve as better rehabilitation centers.
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:29 am
I like Defunct's suggestion. Especialy the part about "Basically work towards building a system that provides no reasonable excuse for criminals not to succeed once they get out of prison."
However, that opens up an entirely different can of worms. A criminal's status as one automatically socially classifies him as unable to hold certain positions, and employers are much less likely to hire someone with a criminal record. How do we solve this? We can't very well keep criminal records private, as that is rather grossly unfair to the general populace. Employers have a right to know if the man they just hired to work the cash register has a history of petty theft. The solution I can think of off the top of my head would be to have a government funded compensation program for the hiring of past criminals, as well as a form of special insurance against damages perpetrated by the individual in question. However, that could prove to be just as money intensive as our curent system, and that amount of money would not be justified until after the system was already established and working.
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:50 am
It's just a matter of restoring people's faith in the system. Providing cash compensation and special insurance would send both a strong message about reformed criminals and our own lack of faith in a system we designed. I wouldn't be opposed to some kind of protective parole however, under the guise that it's part of a criminal's recovery while really just keeping tabs on released prisoners we could eliminate doubt and slowly nudge these people back into society.
My biggest concern with any of this is that criminals would feel alienated. Even if we eliminate the actual need for criminal behavior, that kind of anti-social tension may cause them to still feel like they need to steal to get by.
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:49 pm
Restoring people's faith in a system like that will take time however, and until then previous criminals will still be their in their own little social caste, with few employment options and the general mistrust of the public that such status currently carries. How do we carry the system over until such a time as we can assure people of its effectiveness and safety?
And, quite honestly, as much as I'd like the sysem to work, I'd be about as skeptical as the general populous until actual results were in. It's an expensive and risky system, that could just as easily not work as it could work.
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:54 pm
I suggest a review of the person's wants from society. I guess this would be a very complex task, but still plaussible. For a form of punishment, I suggest a kind of exile. I'm basing my idea off of Australia, with some changes. We could have all people who have commited crimes shuffeld away to a large island that is completely furnished, gated, et cetera; a controlled enviroenment, We could offer them work, but I think the most we could offer them is time and books. I suggest that the time for going to such a place be quite long as well. It would be a fully functioning society, but only in scale. The person would interact and contribute to the community, or not. I also suggest release qualifications.
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:10 pm
My concern with that is the community that the criminal is put it to rehabilitate. He would be living and working with a bunch of criminals. I would think that this could have a very negative affect on any person living there, countering what the program was intending to do. Perhaps, if all of the people really wanted to rehabilitate to society and live a crime-free life, then the community might be somewhat beneficial in the same way AA meetings are. At any rate, the area would need to be closely observed and guarded in the case of violence or other occurrences that could be detrimental to their rehabilitation.
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:06 pm
One problem I see with the community is judging the severity of the crime. You don't send petty thieves to live in a community with murderers and rapists. But that can be easily fixed by creating multiple communities and partitioning by severity of crime.
Another problem is that it all seems terribly bleak. They have to have hope for rehabilitation; being set away that far from a normal society would probably break my spirit. Not that the current prison system is any better...but it's still bleak.
The last problem I see is, well...what seemed to have happened with Australia and Georgia. If you allow to them a fully-functioning society, you'll probably get quite a few people who simply don't want to go back into the real world. If it happens in a place as horrid as prison, it can certainly happen in a community like this.
But, I concede defeat. I have no idea how to deal with stragglers...I'm quite merciless.
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:59 pm
Perhaps those that don't want to leave, don't have to. With permission, they could pay their own fees and work like they could anywhere else. This would give all of the inhabitants a feel as if they were a part of society, even though it would be a controlled one. Eventually a city would become too full with permanent residents to function as the rehab town it was originally. In this case, a new center cold be set up to start the process over again.
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Deviant I'm not sure of my stance on things like death penalties and such, there's no real proof that it does or doesn't work (besides the obvious facts that you're unlikely to get repeat offenders blaugh ), How ever, if everything goes to plan, we could most likely afford to put really bad people behind bars for the rest of their lives (which is also pretty severe). So, The Deviants big list = Crime 1 : things like rape and murder : Highest level of punishment = Death/life imprisonment Crime 2 : Aggrevated assault, grand theft auto,etc. : Re-education while "working of their debt to humanity" in state owned farms/factories/etc. Crime 3 :Fraud, petty theft, etc. : See Crime 2, but for less time. Crime 4 : disruption of the peace, vandalism, etc. : Re-education and community service.
Like that? The crimes listed are examples of the level of "badness" the crime entails (this is obviously my view, it might be different for others) Finding the truth : Entering into the spirit of the law rather then the literal wording of it. Yeah about the death sentance. I've learned that criminals will continue to do these things even with the death sentance. What we need to do is make an example of them. On live T.V. (it will work really well) we torture the convicts to death, make it on every channel, and also make it on radio. This way, in light of the hideous torture, any one dumb enough to do something that bad should be wiped of the planet anyway. The rest of your ideas are very good though.
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:58 pm
...aside from torture being against the Geneva convention and all humanitarian principles and ethics...we shouldn't rule by fear. Making an example out of them will either cause the public to fear the government, or to rebel against it. When you're confronted with an image like that, all of your rights feel threatened, and you either fear or rebel.
By the way, as a personal stance, I always viewed life in prison to be akin to torture. The death penalty has some deep-rooted immoral constructs attached to it too, of course, but life in prison seemed worse than death to me.
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:39 am
It should be borne in mind that a term in gaol carries a lot of stigma. sufficient stigma that it bars you from many jobs, careers and almost all professions.
While this remains the case it makes financial sense (and financial necessity?) for a criminal to hone their art and investigate profitable forms of crime whilst in prison as that's the most available method of making money and supporting himself.
Where best to learn about crime and make criminal contacts? Uhrm, when locked-up with many others in that line or work.
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:04 pm
Uber Moral Crimes (Severe punishment, Lifetime Jail, medical guinae pigs. Depends on the crime in question.
Minor crimes (Flogging, punishment and other things. Then re-habilitation attempts)
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:26 pm
Myslec Perhaps those that don't want to leave, don't have to. With permission, they could pay their own fees and work like they could anywhere else. This would give all of the inhabitants a feel as if they were a part of society, even though it would be a controlled one. Eventually a city would become too full with permanent residents to function as the rehab town it was originally. In this case, a new center cold be set up to start the process over again. And these cities could be as close to self-sufficient as possible, and any extra produce could be sold to the outside world and have the money go to bank accounts for the individuals so they would have money when they got out, and as such be less likely to return to crime. as for the people with long jail terms and life in prison, I suggest a similar arrangement as above. These people would need to be separated from the others and more closely watched, but could have much more freedom than they would have had in jail. The convicts could live in this small society and live in peace without being 'torchered' for the rest of their term.
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Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:28 pm
Go with Education and treatment. Punishment only angers people and makes them want to repeat their offence or do worse things. Education would bore them out of misbehaving. that's what I think from my personal experiences with children, and children are the most honest age group.
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:30 pm
But rape should be a crime punishable by death. I just had to add that. Well, if there is good enough proof... you know, rape kit, lie detecter tests. Lie detecter tests need to be improved by the way, because a lot of people know how to lie and get away with it on those things, It's really not that difficult...
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