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'murrica isn't the only country dealing with a myriad of ethnicities within its borders. What makes you think that? confused

I guess racism and perceived racism will remain a hot issue in the US as long as there is so much discrimination based on the colour of your skin, your sexual preference, your religion, your gender or the country your parents/grandparents/greatgrandparents come from going on. Hell, you yanks erected a wall between between Mexico and the US, gays aren't allowed to marry for the law, Muslims face the hate of a whole country, Ku Klux Klan still exists, there are millions of people who claim to have a say in what a woman does with her body and so on. Clearest example is the white people screaming that Obama is a Muslim terrorist, that is discrimination at its finest.

I think that the moment discrimination ceases to be so apparent you'd hear less bleeding heart anti-racism fruits whining about bullshit like this cartoon.

Which is exactly why people need to learn how to forgive others. But forgiveness is very hard to do and even harder to believe in it. No matter what, though, it's what people need the most.



I rather doubt people will be happy and everything will be fair. I would love for this to be true, though. Call me a pessimist on the issue but people will always find a way to think they're being cut out somehow, someway. People will always refer to their history and how they had family members killed or unjustifiably held down etc. Some never forget this idea of revenge and justice. Sure, there are days where people need to act for the good of their people but sometimes it is impossible to go back and fix it. Again, forgiveness is needed (sometimes).



Maybe you need to live in California to understand how illegal aliens are hurting our economy. Retailers and other groups wouldn't care because they just want their money and the state wants their tax dollars but it doesn't have anything to do about race (or it shouldn't).



It has to do with homosexuality being a sin in religion(s). The law is a different story but we're talking about one group wanting to marry legally within any religion when it's not acceptable to do so (in some). So you have one group (gays) going against a religious rule and religion(s) going against gays because of that (without learning acceptance.)

Both groups made mistakes. The Supreme Court thinking they could just legalize gay marriage against the people's consent, thinking that the people weren't going to act against it. Then you have the constitutional amendment barring a sexual orientation from joining together, which is discrimination.

But, the problem being, that the state(s) is getting involved in religion when these two institutions are suppose to be separate.
I assume you all are going to get very mad at me now. ugh. heh



Some do, some don't. I haven't really heard too many stories where they have been attacked. I think the last one I heard about was a Muslim family in New York being taken off an airplane because of security issues...but that was the last one. Maybe I'm forgetting something?

The Muslim family were given free tickets later so it was resolved.



There are a lot of groups that will still exist. As long as people have ridiculous notions in their head about their own ideology, you can't stop that group from being organized unless they go and start lynching others. Gaia does the same thing with other groups organizing (though this is not the same thing, I understand. I'm just giving an example.) I don't like this group. I hate them. But I can't stop them. *shrug*



Some people are stupid. Some try and use "scare tactics." They all annoy me. ugh



But in all these instances, Aldo, they don't represent America as a whole. That's just my opinion. They represent all the negative sides of itself but...that can be said about any country. America tends to report many bad stories in the country (probably because they think it's the only news worth showing) but they shouldn't. It bothers me.



So true! To me, it has to do with group organizations coming together and making a big deal out of nothing.



Especially after they immigrated to New York for the first time.


I think all this idea of racism comes from my father's generation who went through this terrible segregation throughout his lifetime. My generation hasn't experienced this quite as strongly. So....we see things differently nowadays. People have adapted so much already.


Anyway.....*shrug*

I don't. Sorry I implied that. We just happen to be talking about an American cartoon and how it affects the American audience.



Drunk Irishman jokes and stereotyping entire continents of people aren't quite on the same level...



Yes, but forgiveness and healing are different things. No one is looking to "get even" by causing the same pain that was inflicted upon them, so in that sense the past is "forgiven." But forgiveness alone doesn't fix the problems at hand or erase memories. Healing requires tending to your wounds over time, and is not something you instantly achieve by telling yourself to get better. And that's why these wounds last for generations - not because people are stubborn, but because they have to fight to lick them.



I understand how annoying "paranoid activists" are, I really do. But the Post must have known the cartoon would be controversial. They waited weeks before releasing it, but went ahead anyway. And now that it's out, instead of apologizing for upsetting people, they're denying responsibility. Whether they intended it or not, they look guilty as hell when they try to brush it off instead of embracing people and calming their fears.

I sigh at the "get over it" attitude of people out there in real life. I've heard it plenty, in the same way I've heard people say, "California voted, so get over it" about Prop 8 banning gay marriage. When you tell someone to "get over" something, you are telling them to lie down and take it in the a** because the p***s is small enough that it won't hurt. It's not about one small isolated incident. It's about the big picture: underlying racism in American media and publications. It's so integrated into our daily lives that people who make noise about it are called "sensitive" because no one else notices - but to "get over it" requires you to be either apathetic or ignorant to it. The reason people "look" for s**t, is because the s**t is so cleverly disguised that you can't see it unless you look for it.

I apologize if this sounds heated. I'm just trying to say that I understand both sides to this - I totally get where the people sick of hearing the bitching are coming from. But I also get why people are angry about a silly cartoon. And I don't think the feelings of whole communities are pointless bullshit.

I was rather joking about having to be something to feel offended by something. kekeke.

Pyre, I think the main differences between Irish being drunks, and blacks being niggers is this:


Irish, as it appears nowadays, are proud of being drinkers. Only when you are attacking an individual for drinking in some fight, and make a reference to their "good for nothing drunk family" or some such, do I think it becomes something more of a gesture of an attack.

Blacks, on the other hand, can be proud to be black, but I highly doubt any of them are going to say "I'm proud to be a ******", in regards to the word is demeaning, regardless to which black person you say it to. It is saying to them, directly, that due to their being something they cannot control, makes them less a person than who said it---not equal.

Black jokes are funny. Stereotypes. ie; Watermelon, orange soda, fried chicken, having kids they dont know about, etc.

If Irish had a name that degraded them to say they are not equal with you, just because they are Irish, I'm sure it wouldn't be printed on shirts announcing they were proud to be that word.


I laugh at black jokes. I laugh at white jokes. I laugh at Mexican jokes.
So on, so forth.

But what I was presented with, at first sight, with my ignorance, is shooting a monkey---then I read the text, and I thought, "Oh my".

The reason that ******, and equaling blacks to monkeys still hurts, is because it still represents the whole "not equal to" thing.

Bush being depicted as a monkey ... really, though he appears to be less intelligent, it is highly unlikely he's in his position because of his good charm. I doubt anyone is going to say that the President is less equal to them.


Can I have a hug from you Pyre?

Group hug!

It's just my thoughts.
Maybe I'm being influenced by all that historical fiction I'm reading, in regards to black "hardships"...
but, if my explanation makes any sense as to why ****** and monkey-usage towards blacks isn't quite the same as Irishness...
can I have a cookie?

But if it's complete nonsense, point it out.

Choo chooooooooooo!

I also want to talk about this. If it winds up being a double post, I apologize.

There a certain groups in the black community who use the word jovially towards each other. Do you know when I realized that black friend of mine thought I was black? He walked up to me one day, made as if to give me a high five, and said "What's up my *****'?" I'm probably the only pale-as-a-sheet white girl to ever be called that to her face.

Other groups of black people, usually college educated, use the word "******" to refer to other black people of a lower social class. They're probably describing the first group when they use this. Thugs, gangbangers, generally unintellegent indiviuals... For example, during the heated debates that were launched over rappers using words such as "******," "b***h," and "'ho" too often, I heard a black lady comment, "I'm glad to see some black people on TV. There have been far too many niggers lately."

And it all cycles back to the first group (although there are some who don't use the word at all - except to say that there is never an excuse to use it). The children of my mother's black college friends did not feel "black" enough having had a middle class upbringing as opposed to being from an inner city ghetto. I've heard leaders of the black community comment on this phenomenon, so I think it is safe to say it is not isolated. They mistakenly equated "blackness" with "niggerness," as Huey of The Boondocks would call it. This may have been partly due to how the media portrays blacks (Including blacks portrayals of themselves. Most rappers seek to display that sort of "image."), but I know at least one was bullied at the high school by other black students - beaten up for "not being black enough" and "thinking she was better." Anyways, they started doing stupid things like taking drugs and having sex. One has become a big drug-dealer in my hometown. The girl who I was closest with has two children - her first was born when she was only 14. They came from the second group I described, and yet actively sought to become part of the first group. They intentionally became less than they could have, or even SHOULD have coming from upwardly mobile parents. In that case, maybe they WOULD be proud to be called "niggers."

I don't have an issue with people speaking up if there is actual racism, but this whole incident with the monkey cartoon is beyond silly. To use one of the "everyday" examples you talked about... look at the show Cops. It is invariably white police officers chasing down black criminals. Thus it reinforces the stereotype that all blacks are criminals while asserting white dominance. Yadda yadda it's 4:30 AM and I need sleep.

I don't have an issue if it's there. But the monkey pisses me off because 1) Obama did not write the stimulus bill 2) even if he had, it's an obvious reference to intelligence and not race. I also think it's hypocritical that many of the same people who teeheed over the Bush/Chimp jokes are offended by the notion of Obama being portrayed as a chimp, historical racial prejudices aside.

In a perfect world, Obama would speak to the nation and say "look...stop looking into those things too deeply. A monkey is a monkey. Do you bastards need excuses to go accuse others of racism and s**t? I mean, grow the ******** UP, America."

Course, he wouldn't. Which makes me sad.

In a perfect world, Obama would speak to the nation and say "I am not a black president. I am not a white president. I am an American president... and that is all that matters."

This race, color, ethnicity, religion, sexual preference, and whatever other "you are different from me in *insert reason* way" bullshit is a self perpetuating prejudice machine.

Whether it's in a positive or negative light, referring to someone as different is what helps to maintain the walls that keep us all apart.

IMO... we're all ********>