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 Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:12 pm
RegulusofSlytherin If we buy the prophecy which I, personally, don't. I mean, it's not much of a prophecy if it can be ignored is it? It's more of a...prossiblity then a what has to be thing. It isn't really a "this is a prophecy so what it says, must be" sort of thing. Voldemort, however, believes in it a lot, and so chose to fulfill certain parts of it that he knew of. Voldemort is forcing Harry's hand into battling him, so in the end, the prophecy is made true via choice.
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:44 pm
Not really though, because Harry would have to chose to kill him. I don't know if Harry has it in him to kill. Draco didn't, and Draco is "evil".
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:41 pm
RegulusofSlytherin Not really though, because Harry would have to chose to kill him. I don't know if Harry has it in him to kill. Draco didn't, and Draco is "evil". You really think Harry would wimp out and not even attempt to do Voldemort in? Even if compassion and mercy somehow play into the whole love-power thing, Harry would be downright stupid not try, because look at the outcome if he doesn't. And I don't believe Draco's evil, just immensely foolish.
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:01 pm
Ronald Bilius Weasley RegulusofSlytherin Not really though, because Harry would have to chose to kill him. I don't know if Harry has it in him to kill. Draco didn't, and Draco is "evil". You really think Harry would wimp out and not even attempt to do Voldemort in? Even if compassion and mercy somehow play into the whole love-power thing, Harry would be downright stupid not try, because look at the outcome if he doesn't. And I don't believe Draco's evil, just immensely foolish. I don't believe Draco is evil either. Hence the "". Harry will try, but I don't think he can do it. I just don't think he has it in him to kill, and for some odd reason I think Neville does. Do not ask me why, but I do.
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:18 pm
RegulusofSlytherin Harry will try, but I don't think he can do it. I just don't think he has it in him to kill, and for some odd reason I think Neville does. Do not ask me why, but I do. I can't see Neville mustering up the necessary courage to kill someone moreso than Harry. I think Neville should definitely kill Bellatrix, but Voldemort? That is firmly Harry's job, in my mind.
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:14 am
Well, as to the killing thing; Jo made a pretty big deal about that, in HBP. About it being the ultimate evil, and tearing your soul apart, and Harry's soul being "untarnished and whole" because he has never been tempted by the Dark Arts and he's never killed anybody. So I think it would be a bit contradictory of her to then let Harry murder Voldie. On the other hand, it can't be someone else, especially not Neville. No no no no. I understand that Neville may play a part in the final outcome because of his near escape from the prophecy, but I just don't like the idea that in the end it will be someone else who does it. I feel like, hey we've stuck with Harry so far, through all the s**t thats happened to him, and now lets finish this. With Harry. It would just be so incredibly wrong after all that to turn the baton over to an Auror or a schoolfriend and Harry is only incidental in the whole final battle thing.
So my solution to all this is: Voldie kills himself. On purpose or by his own folly, I don't care. Save Harry's soul, save Rowling's story. There must be some sort of moral in all of it that Jo has been waiting to drop in all along, like "tyrants topple themselves" or "arrogance doesn't pay".
My sister is moaning at me to give her a turn on the computer so I g2g.
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:32 am
That could make sense. Voldemort somehow being responsible for his own down fall...again. He has this nasty habit of underestimating that which he doesn't understand. Like Love and Friendship.
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:37 am
Erm, I now feel the need to post my thoughts on the matter (as we've gotten to taht point in the conversation). I think Acidic Cynic is right and that's part of my idea, so kudos to you whee Also, I copyed this from the other thread I posted it in and edited it to fit the guild... sorry if I missed something.
I think Harry shouldn't kill Moldy-Voldy-Poos. Don't get me wrong, Voldemort shouldn't survive the series... that'd be awful! I just don't want Harry (or anyone else, for that matter) to kill him. Here are my reasons:
-Having Harry kill Voldemort would only prove Voldemort right. It would only prove that the only way to get what you want (in this case: revenge, peace, no more death, etc) is to use violence! I think JK can be unique and find a better way heart
-If Harry killed Voldy-kins than his soul would be ripped apart. I know that Lord Moldy-Voldy is evil and has had his soul torn in to itty-bitty bits and all that... but he's still a living person. Killing him would still be just that, killing.
-As Dumbledore said, 'killing is not as easy as the innocent believe'. I think I would lose all my faith in Harry if he were able to take someones life, evil killing machine or no.
-Killing is a horrible, horrible thing to do. Period. No exeptions. I think there is always another way. I know, I'm an idealistic person, get used to it.
Umm... I hope that wasn't too long and boring and I wasn't too confusing sweatdrop (I also apologize for any spelling/grammar issues, I edited this in notepad and wanted to be done with it ASAP :XP smile
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:52 pm
Acidic Cynic I feel like, hey we've stuck with Harry so far, through all the s**t thats happened to him, and now lets finish this. With Harry. It would just be so incredibly wrong after all that to turn the baton over to an Auror or a schoolfriend and Harry is only incidental in the whole final battle thing. That perfectly sums up how I feel on the subject. Yay! heart And I'm going to have to disagree with you, Minari, on the subject of killing is never justified, because I believe in some cases, it is. Voldemort is far, far too dangerous to be left alive, for he is intelligent enough to keep coming back as many times as necessary. He's like a rabid dog that simply needs to be put down before he infects or kills others.
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:10 pm
Ronald Bilius Weasley Acidic Cynic I feel like, hey we've stuck with Harry so far, through all the s**t thats happened to him, and now lets finish this. With Harry. It would just be so incredibly wrong after all that to turn the baton over to an Auror or a schoolfriend and Harry is only incidental in the whole final battle thing. That perfectly sums up how I feel on the subject. Yay! heart And I'm going to have to disagree with you, Minari, on the subject of killing is never justified, because I believe in some cases, it is. Voldemort is far, far too dangerous to be left alive, for he is intelligent enough to keep coming back as many times as necessary. He's like a rabid dog that simply needs to be put down before he infects or kills others. Oh dear... just letting you know, this conversation will go no where, I can tell. Because, like I said, I'm an idealistic person. I somehow manage to be afraid of people (I still find it scary to go up to the cash-register at my favorite store) yet have unwavering faith in humankind at the same time. I believe it is always possible to reform, even for his Moldy-ness. Blame it on my mother 3nodding
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:48 pm
Acidic Cynic Well, as to the killing thing; Jo made a pretty big deal about that, in HBP. About it being the ultimate evil, and tearing your soul apart, and Harry's soul being "untarnished and whole" because he has never been tempted by the Dark Arts and he's never killed anybody. So I think it would be a bit contradictory of her to then let Harry murder Voldie. On the other hand, it can't be someone else, especially not Neville. No no no no. I understand that Neville may play a part in the final outcome because of his near escape from the prophecy, but I just don't like the idea that in the end it will be someone else who does it. I feel like, hey we've stuck with Harry so far, through all the s**t thats happened to him, and now lets finish this. With Harry. It would just be so incredibly wrong after all that to turn the baton over to an Auror or a schoolfriend and Harry is only incidental in the whole final battle thing. So my solution to all this is: Voldie kills himself. On purpose or by his own folly, I don't care. Save Harry's soul, save Rowling's story. There must be some sort of moral in all of it that Jo has been waiting to drop in all along, like "tyrants topple themselves" or "arrogance doesn't pay". My sister is moaning at me to give her a turn on the computer so I g2g. I agree whole-heartedly. Harry killing Voldemort wouldn't go against the nature of the books. I think that if Voldemort does kill himself it would be by accident because he fears death above all else. Even if Harry had him in a corner with all his limbs missing and no wand or any means of protection but a way to kill himself Voldemort wouldn't take it because he doesn't want to die or else he wouldn't have bothered with the horcruxes. Unless he is counting on falling back on a horcrux but that also seems unlikely because he went through alot of pain last time he lived as a floating soul and I doubt would fall back on that other than for a last resort. I think he will fall because he underestimates some power or person. Him underestimating things seems to be one of his great weaknesses
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:28 pm
Minari Ronald Bilius Weasley That perfectly sums up how I feel on the subject. Yay! heart And I'm going to have to disagree with you, Minari, on the subject of killing is never justified, because I believe in some cases, it is. Voldemort is far, far too dangerous to be left alive, for he is intelligent enough to keep coming back as many times as necessary. He's like a rabid dog that simply needs to be put down before he infects or kills others. Oh dear... just letting you know, this conversation will go no where, I can tell. Because, like I said, I'm an idealistic person. I somehow manage to be afraid of people (I still find it scary to go up to the cash-register at my favorite store) yet have unwavering faith in humankind at the same time. I believe it is always possible to reform, even for his Moldy-ness. Blame it on my mother 3nodding I didn't say I was going to argue with you or attempt to change your mind, I just said I disagreed. I'm not inclined to continue with this matter in any case, as it really hits close to home.
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:11 pm
I think I'm siding with Ronald, Acidic, and Eri.
Harry has to end it. If tricks Voldemort into killing himself, so be it. If he actually up and kills him himself, fine.
Personally, I think Harry DOES have it in him to kill Voldemort, but ONLY Voldemort. I don't think Harry could kill Snape or Draco (he blames them for Dumbledore's death). I also don't think that he would be able to kill Bellatrix. But I DO think that he can kill Voldy. Why? Because Voldemort is the reason that his parents are dead. Voldy is the reason that innocent people are dying. Voldy killed Cedric and has been trying to kill him for years. He's put the lives of his friends and the people he considers family in danger.
If someone did that to you, you wouldn't keep having faith that they'll turn out good. I wouldn't. I know that I don't have it in me to up and actually kill someone, but if I was in Harry's situation, I think things might change.
I think it's similar with Neville. I'm not sure if he could actually KILL Bellatrix and her husband, but I think he has it in him to do some serious damage to them.
An alternative thing would be that whole summoning up innerstrength and not even needing a wand to finish Voldemort. Memories and love are a pretty powerful thing, and I think that if both Harry AND Neville were to go and team up against Voldy they could end up destroying him. Not in a "boom!you'redeadthere'syourcorpse" way, but more of a... nothing being left at all because this power of love (in the form of a spell or whatever) washed over him and just... destroyed him. :/ I'm not really sure how to say it without going into boatloads of detail and backstory. Or making it sound like a bad episode of Sailor Moon.
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Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:50 am
Yeah, I see where you're going with that. Like, if Harry could evict Voldie-Woldie from his head with a bit of love, what could he do if he went into Voldie-Woldie's own head and brought the love with him? Boom!!!
Where is the love question heart
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:29 pm
Graphiti Skies:
There's a fanfiction "After the End" by Zsenya and Arabella, who run the SugarQuill, in which Harry and Company come up with a spell that does pretty much what you're saying.
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![ode[2]sokka's avatar](https://a1cdn.gaiaonline.com/dress-up/avatar/ava/53/30/79101064233053_flip.png?t=1226939073_6.00_11)
