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 Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:48 pm
Ravenwolf xXlittlelula14Xx Ravenwolf Yes, "better" is rather ambiguous... but I'd go for Zack. I haven't played Crisis Core, so I'm only going by what I know outside of that, but he's the real heroic one in VII. Cloud can be selfish, he's got all these mental problems going on, is all conflicted, and generally can be very weak-minded ( can be, I know he gets better). On the other hand, Zack could take Shin-Ra's experiments without going all comatose, gave his life to save his friend, and even after he's dead, he gets the girl. Having said that, though, I do really love Cloud, and I disparage judging who's "better." It makes me wonder how VII would have gone if Zack lived instead of Cloud, though. wait, i thought aerith ddnt want 2 b wit him in the lifestream? (dats from AC lol) Wait, sorry, what? Can you explain that a little better? im sorry. i meant that i thought aerith mentioned repeatedly she didnt want to be with zack in the lifestream because she hates him and she loves cloud. (what i meant in the parenthesis is that the picture link is from advent children {AC for short} )
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:08 am
xXlittlelula14Xx Ravenwolf xXlittlelula14Xx Ravenwolf Yes, "better" is rather ambiguous... but I'd go for Zack. I haven't played Crisis Core, so I'm only going by what I know outside of that, but he's the real heroic one in VII. Cloud can be selfish, he's got all these mental problems going on, is all conflicted, and generally can be very weak-minded ( can be, I know he gets better). On the other hand, Zack could take Shin-Ra's experiments without going all comatose, gave his life to save his friend, and even after he's dead, he gets the girl. Having said that, though, I do really love Cloud, and I disparage judging who's "better." It makes me wonder how VII would have gone if Zack lived instead of Cloud, though. wait, i thought aerith ddnt want 2 b wit him in the lifestream? (dats from AC lol) Wait, sorry, what? Can you explain that a little better? im sorry. i meant that i thought aerith mentioned repeatedly she didnt want to be with zack in the lifestream because she hates him and she loves cloud. (what i meant in the parenthesis is that the picture link is from advent children {AC for short} ) Ahh, OK. I... do not remember her ever saying anything like that. Can you find me proof? But yes, the picture is from Advent Children.
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:25 am
Zack is my favorite Final Fantasy Character and I didn't even have to change his name my name is Zach so it works. He was able to defeat Angeal, Genesis and he did pretty well against Sephiroth the only reason Cloud was able to beat him was a sword in the back.
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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:46 pm
I will never forget when Zack died protecting me, it still haunts me to this very day. I've had to deal with losses in my life and it takes a toll on a person, you never really forgive yourself until you know you have to so you can move on. I took on his legacy so that I could pretend that he was still here teaching me how to be a soldier. I'm not proud of what I did, but I always felt he was the best at what he did. Just like he did with his mentor, I did with him, I wanted to be just like him. Zack was a great friend and mentor and he will forever be missed, but he will always be there in my memories.
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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:37 pm
Oh my god O.O what kind of question is that...it's so hard to choose >.<
But if i REALLY had to make a choice, it would be Zack because he's Cloud sempai and because he's such a nice guy whee
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:34 am
Geez, this is such a conflicting question. I played both games several times through and can't honestly say which character I like better.
Sometimes I really do admire Zack's desire for freedom and his self-sacrifice for defending Cloud. Also, he defeated Angeal ( although the monsters screwed him up pretty bad) and fared okay against Sephiroth for a while. And his death was really sad (even though I had expected it from the beginning).
On the other hand, Cloud has endured more incurable/fatal diseases than anyone else. Its incredible that a regular soldier eventually surpasses both Zack and Sephiroth in blade skill, plus Cloud has Omnislash, that move is just plain awesome. He never wanted to claim his victory and walked away from a hero's life, which I thought was cool.
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:42 am
blacklyra0 Geez, this is such a conflicting question. I played both games several times through and can't honestly say which character I like better. Sometimes I really do admire Zack's desire for freedom and his self-sacrifice for defending Cloud. Also, he defeated Angeal ( although the monsters screwed him up pretty bad) and fared okay against Sephiroth for a while. And his death was really sad (even though I had expected it from the beginning). On the other hand, Cloud has endured more incurable/fatal diseases than anyone else. Its incredible that a regular soldier eventually surpasses both Zack and Sephiroth in blade skill, plus Cloud has Omnislash, that move is just plain awesome. He never wanted to claim his victory and walked away from a hero's life, which I thought was cool. Besides Geostigma obviously, mako poisoning, you mean? I do think it's admirable that he was able to pull out of it, but if you think about it, Zack and Sephiroth were both strong enough to avoid getting it in the first place. If I remember correctly, their minds were strong enough to resist being overwhelmed, but Cloud's wasn't. In a way though, that's Cloud's big thing... He became strong enough to overcome it, and while that's not as cool, per se, it's pretty incredible. Kind of debatable whether Cloud ever got better with a sword than Sephy, but I talk about that too much.
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Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:01 am
Truthfully, neither one is better than the other. Saying Zack is better because he made Cloud what he was is like saying that every teacher in the world is better than the student who has far surpassed the teacher's ability in almost every way.
I agree Zack is awesome. Cloud owes very much to Zack. However, since Cloud was part of the Genova experiments, he's had his strength boosted to near immortal heights. Skill and strength go to Cloud. Personality and courage go more to Zack.
I do not like either better. I think they are pretty much one in the same. One just bolsters more of one particular important character building traits than the other.
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Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:24 am
idk who to choose their both my fav characters in final fantasy but id rather choose cloud
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:08 pm
stonythegreat Truthfully, neither one is better than the other. Saying Zack is better because he made Cloud what he was is like saying that every teacher in the world is better than the student who has far surpassed the teacher's ability in almost every way. I agree Zack is awesome. Cloud owes very much to Zack. However, since Cloud was part of the Genova experiments, he's had his strength boosted to near immortal heights. Skill and strength go to Cloud. Personality and courage go more to Zack. I do not like either better. I think they are pretty much one in the same. One just bolsters more of one particular important character building traits than the other. Good point! Only, wasn't Zack part of the exact same experiments? Only he was strong enough to not get all the coma-ish effects.
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:02 am
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:24 am
Ravenwolf stonythegreat Truthfully, neither one is better than the other. Saying Zack is better because he made Cloud what he was is like saying that every teacher in the world is better than the student who has far surpassed the teacher's ability in almost every way. I agree Zack is awesome. Cloud owes very much to Zack. However, since Cloud was part of the Genova experiments, he's had his strength boosted to near immortal heights. Skill and strength go to Cloud. Personality and courage go more to Zack. I do not like either better. I think they are pretty much one in the same. One just bolsters more of one particular important character building traits than the other. Good point! Only, wasn't Zack part of the exact same experiments? Only he was strong enough to not get all the coma-ish effects. Stronger? Was that mentioned? If you check the documents scattered in that room (VII and CC), it said that Zack was unaffected as a result of the SOLDIER modifications he'd had. Or does that mean something else?
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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:08 am
blacklyra0 Ravenwolf stonythegreat Truthfully, neither one is better than the other. Saying Zack is better because he made Cloud what he was is like saying that every teacher in the world is better than the student who has far surpassed the teacher's ability in almost every way. I agree Zack is awesome. Cloud owes very much to Zack. However, since Cloud was part of the Genova experiments, he's had his strength boosted to near immortal heights. Skill and strength go to Cloud. Personality and courage go more to Zack. I do not like either better. I think they are pretty much one in the same. One just bolsters more of one particular important character building traits than the other. Good point! Only, wasn't Zack part of the exact same experiments? Only he was strong enough to not get all the coma-ish effects. Stronger? Was that mentioned? If you check the documents scattered in that room (VII and CC), it said that Zack was unaffected as a result of the SOLDIER modifications he'd had. Or does that mean something else? I don't remember seeing any documents to that effect, but neither can I remember where I got my information... The wiki's no help either. confused Well, mako is basically a condensation of the Lifestream, which itself is an amalgamation of the memories of people who have died. I was under the impression that Zack could withstand all the mako and everything because his mind was strong enough to not be overwhelmed by all of the other thoughts and stuff flooding his brain. It's the same reason Sephiroth could keep himself together inside the Lifestream; his mind was also strong enough. After all, the same thing happened to Cloud during VII when he got all comatose thanks to the mako poisoning. By that point, he already had so much mako and stuff in him that if it can give you any sort of resistance, I'd think it already would have. COME TO THINK OF IT, it sounds a lot like the same thing that happens in X-2, when Lenne starts to influence Yuna.
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:04 am
@Ravenwolf: You didn't see them? They were supposed to be reports on those experiments, or something to that effect. I'll try to type it out word for word, cause I can still remember it. From VII (played recently, pretty sure this is right): Escapee Report: Description of Time of Capture
Subject (A) SOLDIER/Number () Code: Z
No reaction could be detected from either jenova cells or mako radiation therapy on him.
Subject (B) Regular/Number() Code: C
Reaction to jenova detected. From VII CC (just played, certain this is what it said): Report of Procedual Failure:
Failed Case #1 SOLDIER First Class
Summary: Desired effect did not occur. Strong tolerance to jenova cells due to SOLDIER conditioning assessed as cause.
Failed Case #2 Shinra Infantryman
Summary: Weak tolerance to jenova cells led to toxicosis. Lack of response to outside stimuli suggests severe system damage. Recovery highly unlikely.
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:26 am
Ohhhhh. Yeah, well... I like my reason better. stare
They both make sense, but yours accounts better for his whole memory-screwy-uppy-ness, if it was the Jenova cells that caused it and not the mako.
Thank you so much for posting it!
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