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 Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:25 pm
Yes SK, very good points. Kudos! After reading SK's post though, I began to think about a way to make an undead army sort of different from yer run of the mill undead army. Like, what if the warlock, sorcerer, magician, necromancer or whatever who created the army, were to sacrifice his life so that his army wouldn't have a stereotypical weakness and could sort of scatter his consciousness all over the members of the army so that it would be like he's in direct control of each and every member. That would probably mean stronger willed zombies with a not so easily stoppable mind. You know what I mean?Of course, this is just the general idea so don't go crazy on me and start raving about how it couldn't work or whatever. Just think about it and let me know yer thoughts on my first sketch kind of thing. mrgreen
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:59 am
Interesting thought Hypno.
There is also the idea of giving them a BIT more intelligence. However, as the dead are....well....dead, their souls are no longer present and thus they technically wouldn't have any kind of real intelligence. This is why I simply can't think of vampires as undead - they're intelligent. The human side of them would be "dead", but it's a demonic nature that's overtaken them.
That point can be taken over to the Vampirism thread if anyone decides to pick up on it again........hint.
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:30 pm
Why thank you Mel! mrgreen
I agree with you on the fact that zombies or alike can't be given more intelligence. After all, wouldn't most of their brains be rotting away?
Ok, hint taken, he-he. I'll be over right away. 3nodding
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:06 am
The topic inspired me to try to make an undead/necromancer avatar with what I had in my inventory (I'm sure Jen will be thrilled rolleyes )...
In my mind I distinguish between true undead and animated dead. Maybe from playing D&D. Also there are Flesh Golems, which are a little bit like Frankenstein's Monster. These all display different aspects of "undeath."
True undead would be something like vampires (True vampires and vampire spawn - maybe more about that in the vampire thread) and Mummy Lords. These are intelligent creatures with free will. Their undead state usually arises from some sort of curse. You can also think of these as original undead. They tend to control lesser undead. Lesser undead like zombies may or may not have had their souls brought back to their corpselike body by magic. A good example is in the Manga Shaman King. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faust_VIII In either case undead creatures often have to sustain their unnatural imitation of life by often gruesome predation upon the living, such as vampires drinking blood or zombies eating brains. Supposedly this transfers some of the life force of the victim to the undead, sustaining them. This was the case in the movie My Boyfriend's Back, a dark comedy about a teenage boy that becomes a zombie, based loosely on a hit song in 1963 by The Angels, in which the boy must eat fresh human corpses.
By comparison animated dead (skeletons are a good example seen in Castlevania, Dungeons and Dragons, and other numerous sources) are not true undead at all). The skeletal corpses are animated by magic, not unlike animating any inanimate object such as a book to turn its own pages, a broom to sweep by itself, etc. The animated skeleton posesses no intelligence and can only obey simple commands. Since it has a human-like form it can be commanded to perform actins that a human might. In principle an animated suit of full armor could also be used, but would have less of a creepy effect. Also suits of armor might be harder to obtain that skeletal corpses.
At least that is my understanding. Of course others can disagree
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:15 am
Why is it that everyone automatically thinks of vampires as being undead/true undead JUST because their bodies are no longer human? I'll follow this up in the vampire thread.
The point here is the concept of undead armies being so overused that it's almost impossible to find an original idea within it. A similar thing can be said of vampires, because they've been written about so much with the same stereotypes over the years and goodness knows how many variations of them have appeared.
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:28 pm
Great post SK! You should really check out what Mel had to say about vampires at the vamp thread. She made a really good point as to why they are not considered as undead in her eyes. But I suppose it's just the way most of us have been conditioned to see things. BTW, when thinking about undead armies, I had limited knowledge of them. Did you guys know that there are more types than just Zombies, and mummies? Here's what I found out: Wikipedia * Liches: This is what becomes of a successful Necromancer. The soul is bound to the body, so the sorcerer can not die a natural death, but can still be destroyed by a determined opponent. Liches resemble walking corpses, and many - such as Nagash himself - mere skeletons wrapped in their vestements. * Wights: These are long dead kings and warriors of renown which have been raised by powerful magic. Stronger than the typical skeleton warrior, Wights carry with them powerful weapons which are enchanted to bring death with the slightest scratch. It takes a necromancer of incredible power to bind such warriors. * Banshees: These are the spirit-fragments of women who are heralds of woe and death. Their scream is the harbinger of death, and when people hear the banshee's wail, they tremble with fear. * Wraiths: If a necromancer does not achieve the level of mastery required to become a liche, this is what becomes of him. Wraiths are terrifying creatures who no longer possess a physical body, but whose fear of dispersing into oblivion within the Chaos Realm binds them to the physical realm, in a hollow existence of endless torment. * Ghouls: Though not strictly undead, or even dead at all, ghouls are cannibals who have been reduced to grave-robbing and following in the wake of battle to feed their unnatural thirst for human flesh. They operate in packs, very much like ravening wolves. They seem to have no humanity left to them whatsoever. * Vampires: There are few beings out there with as much power to themselves as a vampire. Many of them are centuries old. Some are older, and they continue to grow in power as they age. Blessed with a natural affinity for Nagash's Necromancy, they are very often found leading the undead into open war. * Skeletons and Zombies: These are the corpses of fallen warriors which have been animated by a necromancer to do the master's bidding. They have no conscious thought, and they are not adept fighters. Their only advantage is that they are not alive. They do not feel pain, hunger, cold, heat, wind, rain, nothing. They simply continue on their crusade until the master decides otherwise. I agree with SK that skeletons are not true undead at all. They feel more like empty suits of armor to me. You know what I'm talking about, right? As you can see, Wikipedia also classifies the vampires as undead so, what are people supposed to think, you know? Maybe you should submit yer theory to them too Mel. 3nodding
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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:34 am
I might actually see if I can do that. Hehe!
Undead armies though are usually made up of your mindless undead like skeletons, zombies, ghouls and the likes though. You know, when they happen to just crawl out of their graves without so much as stirring a single grain of earth.
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:00 pm
This is truly one topic I must ponder over before giving my response. I will let you know what my true thoughts about the undead are once I collect my thoughts into one pile.
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:54 am
Ok great! Let us know if you do it so I can go to Wikipedia and check it out. 3nodding
I get what you say though...
Thanks for coming Egyptian Dragon! I can't wait to read yer thoughts on this. 3nodding
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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:44 pm
I am back from the dead! (sorry)
Okso...my imput is this:
Sterotyping undead armies you think of zombies walking around, arms out and moaning about brains and blood.
I think the word undead to me means that they can't die and are controlled by someone in the background, but sometimes you think of vampires. Now they to me are not undead, yes you can have an army of them and yes some people call them undead.
When you think about it you need to think of the anotamy, they wouldn't be able to eat lots and lots of flesh and guts. They have to be able to sustain that feeling and also keep their bodiesgoing.
Zombies have all human instinct taken from them so nothing is human about them, all they can remember isprimal instinct to feed and not care where they get it from.
Just going into resident evil for a sec, the virus they made humans turn into zombies was a genitic mutation of the blood that lead to the bain that zaped out any human remourse and feeling. Thus undead zombies.
I don't know what to really think on zombies most ofthem are the typical sort but I think that undead armies can be anything.
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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:37 pm
Wow! I never thought my efforts to raise Dragoon Arcadia from the dead would work, ha-ha! Just kidding... Welcome back!
I think I see yer point. Mel also made a pretty good one about vamps not being "undead" in the first place. 3nodding
Other than my idea on the first post of this page, I've been trying to think of another way that undead armies wouldn't be stereotyped but I haven't come up with anything yet.
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Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:46 am
Dictionary.com Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This un·dead /ˌʌnˈdɛd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uhn-ded] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –adjective 1. no longer alive but animated by a supernatural force, as a vampire or zombie. –noun 2. (used with a plural verb) undead beings collectively (usually prec. by the).
Undead are for all intents and purposes, walking corpses. Vampires are demons.
Undead armies are usually comprised of people who have only recently become deceased and are still decomposing (zombies) and skeletons.
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:51 pm
As much as I agree with you, we still haven't been able to come up with an original way to depict an army of undead, have we? I had a nice idea there but that was it.
I'm sure that if there is a good way to make an army of undead seem original would be to combine it with other concepts, you know? Hey! How about an army of undead aliens for example? mrgreen
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Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:18 am
If we're talking aliens from other planets, we're now heading into science fiction. Otherwise aliens are foreigners (a person or being from another place or country).
I believe the third Resident Evil film has some kind of new concept. Resident Evil: Extinction that is. Dr. Isaacs develops a serum made from Alice's blood to subdue the zombies and bring back bits of their humanity. Of course it has its flaws though. He tries to domesticate them using this serum. It works on the zombie he tries it on, but when it can't get a block through an infant's block toy (you know, a small contraption with different shaped objects that you have to fit through the right slots), it gets angry and reverts back to its normal state.
Perhaps there's a new idea hovering around in there somewhere?
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Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:04 pm
Well, there's no need to involve sci-fi when it comes to aliens, right? I mean, couldn't an alien come here (or any other world) by using some kind of magical portal? That way, you wouldn't have to call it sci-fi per se.
But yes, there might be something else that we haven't thought of yet... 3nodding
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