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Clair Fay

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:43 pm


blindfaith^_^
1. Do you know anyone in the scene or in another scene who seems to be claiming discrimination when there isn't any?

2. Do you know anyone who has acted ridiculous and then declared anyone who called them on their action discriminatory?

3. Have you ever had a persecution complex?

4. Have you or a friend ever acted out just to act out?

5. Do you feel that a lot of pagans on the scene have some sort of persecution complex?

6. Do you feel that a lot of pagans in the scene tell others that they have a persecution complex when those people have valid points and concerns?

7. Have you ever heard of or referenced the "burning times"?

8. Anything else you can think of on the topic of discrimination and people claiming discrimination when there isn't any.


1. Just like everyone else said pretty much. Everyone feels or thinks they are being discriminated against at least once in their life. It's like dying--you're bound to do it once.

2. Not off hand. Maybe I have, but I can't remember or something. Pretty sure the answer is, "No, not yet" though.

3. Lol No, I personally haven't, and none of my coven members or apprentices have either (that I know of).

4. Yes, but not necessarilly in religious context. We're still teenagers. It's a given that we're gunna do stupid stuff just to feel independent or different.

5. Personally, no, but then again, I don't know that many intimately enough to judge whether or not they have such a complex.

6. When the points are valid, then their "complex" as it is called may not be such. If people are actively persecuting you, granted, not in the fashion of the Burning Times, then the concerns are valid and therefore must be addressed.

7. Of course I have! But not in the way of, "You're coming after me just like they did in the Burning Times!" (Unless giving an example like that.) Whenever I reference it, it's to do research or to explain things to my coven or apprentices. It's to help them figure out that, no, we aren't being persecuted like that, and yes, it really did happen.

8. If the points are valid and you have proof, go do something about it. If you're not sure if the points are valid, take a second oppinion--Hel, you may want to do that anyway, just to make sure it's not all in your head. If the points aren't valid and are just plain stupid--ie, "My parents gave me extra chores because I'm not Christian" or "My teacher gave me an F because I'm openly Pagan/Wiccan/Whatever"--then get a good friend to smack you upside the head, show you how wrong you are, and then grow up. (I'm a blunt person.)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:35 pm


Kuriyaki I'd just like to address your post regarding the truth in the the "burning times". Are we discussing the period better known as the inquisition in which many people (mostly women) were tortured, harmed and killed for being "witches"? If this is the case then I agree that such a thing historically happened, however I have to stress that the people harmed were generally (the large majority) also Christian. You probably knew this and meant it that way (it's hard to tell for certain on the internet), I just don't understand why you would bring it up in a religious context is all.

Maybe you are referring to something else though? If so, I would appreciate some references so I can better understand your point. As it happens now, I don't see how the burning times (at least that I was thinking of and the phrase does reference several events depending on who you talk to) relates to Christian persecution of pagans.

blindfaith^_^
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Clair Fay

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:51 pm


Yes, I am refferring to the inquisition. In religious context? I suppose you can include a coven as religious, but I mainly concider it a sort of second family where you form bonds, learn from one another, and generally enjoy one another's presence. As far as I'm concerned, it is a place to feel like you belong and are wanted in a world that doesn't always want you around (and where I am, this is the case, as I've been harrassed in a couple manners).

What I meant by telling my coven mates that it did happen was just pointing out exactly that, that it really did happen. There are a lot of people who say it didn't happen, just like what they say about the Holocaust (some still reffuse to believe it happened).

Just to clarify, I never reffer to it as "the time when pagans were persecuted" or anything along those lines. There was a time for that, but it was before the inquisition, where the options were "join our church or die." The name for that time, however, I don't know off hand.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:02 pm


Interesting, I hadn't realized that people thought the inquisition didn't happen. Of course, people who deny the Holocaust and I imagine people denying the inquisition are the same sort are people I stay away from. It's been my thought that most of them don't think it didn't happen so much as they were in support of the proceedings, I don't know how that would or would relate to the Inquisition though, as that happened in days way past and I tend to think people stop holding personal connections to events past a certain period. Then again, I'm American and my understanding of history grudges may be lacking as there are people I know still really angry at England over their control of Ireland (and that too seems to be so long ago I can't understand the remaining anger).

For me it's too interconnected to negative myths regarding pagan and Christian relations for me to use it that way, but I'm glad that you can find a way to integrate it that makes sense.

blindfaith^_^
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Clair Fay

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:19 pm


*nods* I know a lot of Christians I get along with, as do we all, but especially since the area I live in is Catholic dominated. Hence the harrassment (die-hard Catholics+notoriously close-mind=nothing good for polytheistics). Though I'd like to note it never stops me from being open about who i am and where I stand on things and being proud all the while. I also do a lot of research and so am aware of a lot of the history between Christians (including Catholics), Pagans, and Jews (whom I have the highest respect for), including the long-past time where all of them got along harmoniously about 99% of the time.

All religions are good in nature, what makes them come across as bad every once in a while are those few human beings who twist it all around and then publish (as in the Old Testament) or make them into movies (Hollywood in general). But the same can be twisted around so all is good again. Goes along with the saying "All that can be used for good can alternately be used for harm (as "evil" is really simply only an oppinion and a viewpoint, where as "good" is generally a universal concept and recognised as such)." I could give examples to support this, but I'll spare all you that, unless I'm so asked.
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