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 Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:30 pm
psychadelephant The Kaptain psychadelephant Soulstrike96 There's something about that explanation that I don' like... It's like saying that it's a sin, but Jesus dying made it all ok to do from then on. confused It still is a sin, but the only difference now is that if you sincerely repent and ask for God's forgiveness you get a second chance. That option wasn't available during the old testament Does this mean a muderer or child molester can ask God for forgiveness and be forgiven even though they have both committed sins? And how many chances do people get? Murder is one of the unforgivable sins. There are a few of those. I don't know all of them though. I guess as long as people put some sort of effort into reforming and trying to stop sinning, as long as they mean it when they apologize to God, He'll keep forgiving them. Where do you get that murder is an unforgivable sin? I've read in the Bible that the only unforgivable sin is blaspheming Gods name....like giving Satan the credid that God should recieve.
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:44 pm
There is a problem with using the verses in Deuteronomy and applying them to us today. This problem is context.
The context of the verses in Deuteronomy is the giving of the law for the development of the ancient nation of Israel.
We, not being of this nation, were not given these commands. They were given to the Israelites, and, therefore, do not apply to us.
Although it is interesting to note that the "removal of wickedness" is continued within the church by means of church discipline. With excommunication being the ultimate punishment for an unrepentant person.
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:09 pm
ChikiMongo Where do you get that murder is an unforgivable sin? I've read in the Bible that the only unforgivable sin is blaspheming Gods name....like giving Satan the credid that God should recieve. Oh, sorry. You're right. Nevermind then... I've always heard that though... I guess people need to actually look it up before posting it [myself included]
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:08 pm
psychadelephant ChikiMongo Where do you get that murder is an unforgivable sin? I've read in the Bible that the only unforgivable sin is blaspheming Gods name....like giving Satan the credid that God should recieve. Oh, sorry. You're right. Nevermind then... I've always heard that though... I guess people need to actually look it up before posting it [myself included] Thats ok smile And thats a good bit of advice.
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:46 am
ChikiMongo psychadelephant The Kaptain psychadelephant Soulstrike96 There's something about that explanation that I don' like... It's like saying that it's a sin, but Jesus dying made it all ok to do from then on. confused It still is a sin, but the only difference now is that if you sincerely repent and ask for God's forgiveness you get a second chance. That option wasn't available during the old testament Does this mean a muderer or child molester can ask God for forgiveness and be forgiven even though they have both committed sins? And how many chances do people get? Murder is one of the unforgivable sins. There are a few of those. I don't know all of them though. I guess as long as people put some sort of effort into reforming and trying to stop sinning, as long as they mean it when they apologize to God, He'll keep forgiving them. Where do you get that murder is an unforgivable sin? I've read in the Bible that the only unforgivable sin is blaspheming Gods name....like giving Satan the credid that God should recieve. Again, old testament. Commandment 5: Thou shalt not kill. Actions going against the 10 commandments were, and still are, considered a grave sin. If you want to look at it from a new testament view, it goes against "Love thy neighbour" and if you want a higher view, it's a blatent destruction of god's creation and is therefore mocking god.
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:55 am
The Kaptain ChikiMongo psychadelephant The Kaptain psychadelephant Soulstrike96 There's something about that explanation that I don' like... It's like saying that it's a sin, but Jesus dying made it all ok to do from then on. confused It still is a sin, but the only difference now is that if you sincerely repent and ask for God's forgiveness you get a second chance. That option wasn't available during the old testament Does this mean a muderer or child molester can ask God for forgiveness and be forgiven even though they have both committed sins? And how many chances do people get? Murder is one of the unforgivable sins. There are a few of those. I don't know all of them though. I guess as long as people put some sort of effort into reforming and trying to stop sinning, as long as they mean it when they apologize to God, He'll keep forgiving them. Where do you get that murder is an unforgivable sin? I've read in the Bible that the only unforgivable sin is blaspheming Gods name....like giving Satan the credid that God should recieve. Again, old testament. Commandment 5: Thou shalt not kill. Actions going against the 10 commandments were, and still are, considered a grave sin. If you want to look at it from a new testament view, it goes against "Love thy neighbour" and if you want a higher view, it's a blatent destruction of god's creation and is therefore mocking god. While sins, they are not unforgivable. There is a difference. Example: Moses himself murdered an Egyptian. David murdered Uziah by having him placed at the front lines and then having all other troops fall back.
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:46 pm
Ok, more questions. Why is it a sin to not be a virgin when you're married?
I can see a practical reason why that is desired (I wonder if any of you can guess what it is...), but to have ever had it be a sin punishable by death? The punishment doesn't fit the so-called crime...
It sounds to me like Jesus came down, said 'darn, life is hard down here' and with his newfound experience decided the 'rules' were rather unreasonable. Almost as if 'god' has lost touch with his people, the world 'he had created' and everything that people have had to live with. Even if god exists, i don't believe he is omnipotent or omniscient. 'God' is a construct of man, an idea that explains the unexplainable (at the time), a crutch in times of pain and suffering upon which hopes are precariously placed, and a guide for those who face that which is unfamiliar. In short, god is what we make of him, and we him into everything that we need.
I just don't believe in god. Nothing i have ever seen or felt has ever confirmed god's presence. All there's been is a lack of what everyone says they feel, what should be there, a bitter absence i've felt all too keenly.
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:34 am
Phinnehas The Kaptain ChikiMongo psychadelephant The Kaptain Does this mean a muderer or child molester can ask God for forgiveness and be forgiven even though they have both committed sins? And how many chances do people get? Murder is one of the unforgivable sins. There are a few of those. I don't know all of them though. I guess as long as people put some sort of effort into reforming and trying to stop sinning, as long as they mean it when they apologize to God, He'll keep forgiving them. Where do you get that murder is an unforgivable sin? I've read in the Bible that the only unforgivable sin is blaspheming Gods name....like giving Satan the credid that God should recieve. Again, old testament. Commandment 5: Thou shalt not kill. Actions going against the 10 commandments were, and still are, considered a grave sin. If you want to look at it from a new testament view, it goes against "Love thy neighbour" and if you want a higher view, it's a blatent destruction of god's creation and is therefore mocking god. While sins, they are not unforgivable. There is a difference. Example: Moses himself murdered an Egyptian. David murdered Uziah by having him placed at the front lines and then having all other troops fall back. Cain killed Abel and was damned to wander the earth undying and unaging for 7 generations. Quote: Why is it a sin to not be a virgin when you're married? God said that all sex must be within marriage and open to the possibility of child birth. Going against it is going against the direct word of God (as is killing someone)
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:06 pm
God sees all sins the same. No where in the Bible does it say that murder is more of a sin than lying. They are the same to Him. Just think about that. Everytime you are telling a white lie....its the same to God as if you were murdering someone. So if God is willing to forgive your little white lie.....how much more so a murder? thay can all me forgiven excpet for the blaspemy of His name.
Cain also didn't believe in God or want to sincerely plaese Him in his heart. Moses and David did. Forgiveness didn't happen back then, since Jesus hadn't bought our forgiveness with His death yet, so they did go to Hell. The thing is, when Jesus died and became sin, He went to Hell before coming back to Earth then ascending to Heaven. After that, anyone who was a believer in the Lord was rescued from Hell and taken to Heaven.
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:48 pm
The Kaptain Quote: Why is it a sin to not be a virgin when you're married? God said that all sex must be within marriage and open to the possibility of child birth. Going against it is going against the direct word of God (as is killing someone) As far as I know, that's another rule set down in the old testament, is it not? It is something in a book, that a man wrote that says he says god told him that. Basically, hearsay on what 'god' said you should do. Not good enough for me. There are more practical reasons for such policy among the people of the ancient world. I wonder if any of you can think of what they are. Hint: has to do with the way certain members of society were and are still treated in those areas... When it comes to 'sins' like those, one can only sympathize so much, but even less when their reasons for being have lost their relevance and applicability... Btw, I don't think it said that all sins were the same to god... or that 'blasphemy' is actually worse than something like murder. And if it were so, it only reaffirms my lack of respect for a being like that. As it is, I see it as extremely selfish on the part of a 'god' to create a world such as it is and give life to anything. Life is as much a curse as a 'gift.' What choice do we get, to live and have to deal with this double edged blade? 'God' wanted to have company and to love, and as a result people have suffered too. I have no doubt that you will respond with "it is impossible to know what god thinks" and all that, but perhaps thoughts similar to mine are why they refuse to try. God is not all powerful, or all knowing, or all loving, and even so. Just because a being may be more knowledgeable and/or more powerful than us does not mean it automatically is worthy of respect, much less worship. It almost seems as if a sympathetic alien wished to help seed the world with more positive qualities and attributes but harmed us as much as helped. Were religion carved into stone rather than hearts and minds, it would be much easier to change what seemed to be wrong. However, it would also make it that much easier to corrupt... And all that goes without the whole idea of 'right', 'wrong', and how such attributes are assigned. Religion, i.e., is a paradox all its own, and I am glad to stand independent of it rather than stand upon it, trying to patch up a system as relevent and important as it is not. confused
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:51 pm
ChikiMongo God sees all sins the same. No where in the Bible does it say that murder is more of a sin than lying. They are the same to Him. Just think about that. Everytime you are telling a white lie....its the same to God as if you were murdering someone. So if God is willing to forgive your little white lie.....how much more so a murder? thay can all me forgiven excpet for the blaspemy of His name. Cain also didn't believe in God or want to sincerely plaese Him in his heart. Moses and David did. Forgiveness didn't happen back then, since Jesus hadn't bought our forgiveness with His death yet, so they did go to Hell. The thing is, when Jesus died and became sin, He went to Hell before coming back to Earth then ascending to Heaven. After that, anyone who was a believer in the Lord was rescued from Hell and taken to Heaven. It's still early here and I'm tired so this is a quick-fire reply (I'll try to get round to other replies this evening) So no sins are unforgivable except for blasphemy? But aren't all sins seen the same in god's eyes? This is the one thing I don't like about christianity: The continuous contradiction. Cain physically HAD to believe in god as he, his brother, father and mother were the only humans in existance (going with the contradiction again, someone at somepoint wanders off and finds Ruth. Where the blue hell did Ruth come from?). And Cain didn't go to hell and never did go to hell.
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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:33 am
^
God forgive us if we really do regret our sins. This not include things like murdering someone, saying "I'm sorry" and then muredering someone again. Ofcourse we can have some bad addiction, but as long we really try to stop it, we can be forgiven.
All the sins are same since they are sins. Meaning, if we would think lying is lighter sin than stealing, wouldn't we start to think "so stealing has a really bad consequence but if I lie, it won't be so bad?" So saying "all the sins are the same" make's people avoid doing any of them. Also, if they wouldn't be at the same line, maybe people would start to ask how bad was their sin everytime they did something.
Well, we all have our own view when reading the Bible. We see things differently and sometimes it even make as argue >.<" But we learn by reading it and it growns our faith so it's important.
p.s. I'm sorry for writing so long message when my english is so bad -.-"
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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:02 pm
Quote: Just because a being may be more knowledgeable and/or more powerful than us does not mean it automatically is worthy of respect, much less worship. It almost seems as if a sympathetic alien wished to help seed the world with more positive qualities and attributes but harmed us as much as helped. Were religion carved into stone rather than hearts and minds, it would be much easier to change what seemed to be wrong. However, it would also make it that much easier to corrupt... And all that goes without the whole idea of 'right', 'wrong', and how such attributes are assigned. We dont exactly worship God because He made us or because He is all knowing. We worship Him because He is good to us. He gave His son to suffer and die on the cross for each individual person regardless of what we've done. And it's all because He loves us smile
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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:04 pm
This post seems to of gotten off topic, so I'm going to attempt to re-rail it back on track >.>
Psalm 2, verse 12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry and you perish in the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their faith in Him.
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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:18 pm
ChikiMongo Quote: Just because a being may be more knowledgeable and/or more powerful than us does not mean it automatically is worthy of respect, much less worship. It almost seems as if a sympathetic alien wished to help seed the world with more positive qualities and attributes but harmed us as much as helped. Were religion carved into stone rather than hearts and minds, it would be much easier to change what seemed to be wrong. However, it would also make it that much easier to corrupt... And all that goes without the whole idea of 'right', 'wrong', and how such attributes are assigned. We dont exactly worship God because He made us or because He is all knowing. We worship Him because He is good to us. He gave His son to suffer and die on the cross for each individual person regardless of what we've done. And it's all because He loves us smile Then doesn't it seem to be more logical to just worship Jesus and not god seeing as Jesus did all the doing?
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