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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:23 am
I've been panning through this guild and spiritually... it very fustrating. I don't know if just everyone I've come across are the alternative religions or what. But the God I know seem to be more of a system here.
Why?
Have I just talked to the wrong people?
I mean, apparently, God power is somethign that is 'scary' and 'cult like'. News flash! God opened the ground and swallowed up a whole camp of people, so what a little bit of Gold dust to him???? New flash! The God I serve brought the dead back to life days after they died!
What wrong here!?!
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:49 am
There are few people here of alternate religions. We had an irreligious atheist, a Wiccan (not sure if she was fluffy or not), and two LaVeyan Satanists, myself being one of them.
I am assuming this is in regards to what Takai said in another thread. There are some, what I would consider more rational individuals in this guild who are Christians. They aren't any less Christians, nor do they have a weaker relationship with God. They simply find some practices of certain sects to be, perhaps, incorrect. (That... or my ebul saytanick magjicxksz is working.)
It's no surprise, considering that some practices could harm an individual, physically, mentally, emotionally, or even spiritually. Take excorcism for example... or the radical "god power" practices portrayed in Jesus Camp. If that movie was not "cult like," I'm not really sure what is.
Though really, I think you should clarify on what exactly "God Power" is... It's not a Bibleman power, is it?
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:13 am
I'm with Pirate on the whole "God Power" thing. What'chu talkin' 'bout?
As for the rest of us, we call it our Faith for a reason. If you need a miracle to validate your worship in God, then you just don't have it.
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:16 pm
first of all, i am a saved sinner. i accepts the Apostles Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Westminster Shorter Catechism (my favorite Q&A being the first). i believe knowing God is the chief pursuit of this life. like 1 John says, to know God is to know love and to be transformed by that love, and therefore that love changing the way you act towards people. knowing God however is an eternal pursuit as God is not completely knowable. God is found in His Word, which He values above His own name, and it is in His Word that we may seek to know Him better, and through prayer, not just talking but listening to the whispers of His Spirit. i know that God is all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal, gracious, merciful, just, slow to anger, and this His chief attribute is love, all of which i have learned from reading just a few books of the Bible. i do not limit God and know that He can do all things. as still being in my mortal body, i know that i still sin but that Christs' blood covers it, which makes me want to do less sin at of gratitude for such an act and because i know it grieves Him. i agree with John Wesley however that there is a perfection attainable in this life, though we can still error, but yet always doing things in love.
now that i have that out of the way, i'd like to say that i am suspicious when it comes to the miraculous, simply because i do not have the gift of discerning of spirits, so i am not completely sure what is behind the miraculous event occurring. i will not speak specifically about the gold dust miracles because i know very little about it; too little to make an educated opinion. however, the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship (which is usually associated with gold dust and gold fillings) is, from my point of view, way too focused on the miraculous. that was the error of the Corinthian church, so much so that they looked down upon those who they deemed were not as "spiritual" as they were. the thing is ... does one who puts so much emphasis on the supernatural have a foundation of rock or of sand? what will happen when their house of miracles is blown over by the wind? will that person still love God as they did when they were witnessing miracles around them? i am not trying to discredit anybody's faith nor any miracles (except the hokey televangelist healing seminars ... those are just lame), but instead i am simply saying that it is easy to be sucked up into it and lose sight on God. so i do agree with what Takai said. i remember a friend told me they went to a Pentecostal church and recalled that the was a high "spiritual feeling" in the place. i asked if it could've just been an emotional high, and she replied "most likely". emotions alone are not good judges most of the time.
if God's working through miracles, great. i believe that all of the spiritual gifts are still active today. but i try to be cautious when something miraculous.
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:26 am
Yes but you NEED miracles to have a proper relationship with Christ.
My thought on it are this. My Lord said I shall do greater thing than him. He delevered demons. He healed the sick. He raised the dead. Walked on water. Killed tree with words. He accended into other realms.
I go to a penticostal church. It fustrates me that miracles are looked down upon as a 'lack' of faith.
We prayed for the rain to stop so we could continue our sermon outside, it stopped. Is that a lack of faith? No it was A LOT of faith in the Lord God.
Faith means miracles won't happen, not the other way around. It evident in Jesus visit to his home town.
as for 'emotional high' does emotional highs lead people to know thing no-one else know about you.
Does emotional high lead you to feel a buring presents of love and THEN the speaker say, there it is! The holy spirit, in your left hand!" I could feel it before he started!
I just think you guys are cutting yourselves short by not walking in faith. Yes FAITH. Becuase it takes a whole lot more faith to step out and pray for someone to be healed than it does to say "Yeah, God's real"
LaVeyan Satanists... ppft, call them selves satanists XD -was in the occult for a short period- -too long-
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:55 am
Type Text Here LaVeyan Satanists... ppft, call them selves satanists XD -was in the occult for a short period- -too long- Yes... and? LaVeyan Satanism was the first form of Satanism to be an actual organized religion. Before that, it was merely a pejorative. I sincerely hope, for your own good, that you are not attempting to insult me nor my religion.
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:02 am
No Pirate, I'm not shallow. It just I think it kind of halirous how they call themselves satanists. I mean there is no real satan in there religion it isn't worshiping satan it just all about the opposite values to Christians.
Tho' I know from a bit of reading the satanic bible and some friends that there are still rules, like how your person enjoyment won't hurt others. I think it's that. Correct me if I'm wrong.
When I think satanist I think of the freaky crap I got into slightly. Like calling spirits, conjuring curse from satan upon people, calling upon demons for knowledge. etc. etc. etc.
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:21 am
Hey, I'm from a pentacostal church as well, and I really can't see where you are coming from on this one---Faith means miracles won't happen?
I don't get it. You see, Jesus said that faith the size of mustard seed could move mountains. Faith, little or great, can bring about God's blessing. Miracles are God's way of helping to confirm our faith, to validate us.
I think you may be refering (in a roundabout way) to the idea of faith and deeds--that belief alone is not enough to develop a substantial relationship with Christ; it is something that must be walked out. that I can show my faith by my deeds, I can't show my faith if their is no fruit born....
am I even making sense?
In direct response to your original question--I'm doing alright with God. gets better everyday, and that's all I can ask for, right?
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:03 am
Type Text Here Yes but you NEED miracles to have a proper relationship with Christ. You could never truly understand how absolutely hilarious you are for this statement. Well, Perhaps you can, as I will be sourcing verses that say the exact opposite of it...when I get home from work, anyway.
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:04 am
Type Text Here No Pirate, I'm not shallow. It just I think it kind of halirous how they call themselves satanists. I mean there is no real satan in there religion it isn't worshiping satan it just all about the opposite values to Christians. Then you have absolutely no understanding of Satanism at all. It is called Satanism while it does not condone the worship of an external deity known as Satan, just like Theravada Buddhism is atheistic and worships no Buddha. We've got a Satan, but he isn't a deity, nor a figure of worship. He is a concept--a metaphor, and an appropriate one. This, you would understand, if you actually carefully read The Satanic Bible, instead of flipping through it and coming completely ignoring context and... well, content. Try "Wanted--God, Dead or Alive." It explains the Satanic take on a deity. Then try, at most basic, the Nine Satanic Statements, and the chapter "Some Evidence of a New Satanic Age" (if I'm not mistaken) which explains why it is appropriate to call Satanism Satanism. I fail to see how the lack of belief in a certain deity makes a religion unworthy of calling itself anything with that deity's name in the name of the religion. If you disagree, you'd best get after those Buddhists. Type Text Here Tho' I know from a bit of reading the satanic bible and some friends that there are still rules, like how your person enjoyment won't hurt others. I think it's that. Correct me if I'm wrong. How your personal enjoyment won't hurt others? Where does it say anything about that. It speaks out against rape and the likes, yes, but it doesn't hold a Wicca-like creed. Like Gardner, LaVey used Crowley's "do as thou wilt." Gardner added an addendum "an' it harm none." LaVey did not. We believe in more of a "do as thou wilt so long as it ain't illegal." Type Text Here When I think satanist I think of the freaky crap I got into slightly. Like calling spirits, conjuring curse from satan upon people, calling upon demons for knowledge. etc. etc. etc. You were into fluffy Satanism then? Even the theistic Satanists don't invest in "conjuring curses," at least not in that sense. The Church of Azazel is less into asking for favours from demons/spirits/Satan, and more into dedicating themselves to them/him in a ceremonial matter. They are, I daresay, the only RHP Satanism religion. You got into Joy of Satan or what? Joy of Satan is to Satanism as Silver Ravenwolf is to Wicca. That, or you made your own little religion up and called it Satanism?
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:11 pm
i looked at the Joy of Satan website. it made me laugh.
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:51 pm
gonk Dosen't look like I have missed too much here.... I'll just be going again..... gonk
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:21 pm
i like burnination i looked at the Joy of Satan website. it made me laugh. Me too, burny... Me too. We were counting the fallacies on seperate pages of the site in my quest thread. ^_^
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:31 pm
PirateEire i like burnination i looked at the Joy of Satan website. it made me laugh. Me too, burny... Me too. We were counting the fallacies on seperate pages of the site in my quest thread. ^_^ the one that made me laugh the most was the one that talked about how Jesus committed all of the seven deadly sins. but the sad thing is people buy into that garbage.
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:51 am
Pirate: Settle down seriously. =/
You really make big issues out of nothing.
I'm saying it funny cause so many people think satanism is occultism, that ALL i was saying, I think it was funny that they choose the name satanism, because so many people think it something it not. I know it a metaphor.
Once more, I'm just saying it a stupid choice of words. =[ It always kind of confused me why it the occult for the real satanic thing, and satanism for the soft and fuzzy do as you will. Thing. =/
Fluffy satanism? You serious? I didn't get in deep but there was nothing fluffy about it, spread rituals so the demons only hurt you fractionally to that of who you cursed. Body possession for communication purpose. That stuff is heavy. I'm glad I didn't go too deep. =/ And got out safely. I hope. :s
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