Triste Morningstar II
(?)Community Member
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- Posted: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 18:52:15 +0000
T.I.A.F.A.K.H. Project aka 'Triste is a ******** a*****e, Kill Her' Project.
I'm rewriting the Wiccan FAQ because I can't edit the original and I was being an a*****e when I wrote it. Also some of the s**t was stupid/wrong. DON'T. POST. IN THE OLD ONE. THANK YOU.
Updates + Whatnot
August... Uh, 11th? 12th? Whatever.
So. This thread, which is technically an FAQ (as it should be), has kind of become the unofficial 'debate about covens' thread. I like this. I would like for that to continue.
However.
However, I've been here for a while. If possible, I'd like to extend this FAQ into other directions, and make it as full of information as humanly possible. To that end, I am asking you guys for your help. You guys are mostly older than me, have more experience with Wicca than I do, and probably know what sources are reputable and what sources are not. I'd also like for you guys to have some input as to what should go in. What do you guys want to see in here?
Here's what I'm thinking we should add some more info on:
August 6th - New question/answer, because I suck.
Furthermore, I am now the sole member/leader of the Traditionalist Intolerant b*****d Super Guild of Magical a**-Pagan Musketeers. Yes.
Winner of everything:
NEW POST FROM NURI:
FOMG SHE HAS SPOKEN.
I think this pretty much sums up my argument.
Wiccan FAQ
Ok, most important question ever: What is the elemental weapon of ether?
Hehehehehe. No idea.
What are the Origins of Wicca?
Many of you may have been under the impression that Wicca was older than 60/50/Whatever years old. For more information on the false origins of Wicca, please visit these pages and READ THEM:
http://wicca.timerift.net/origins2.html
http://wicca.timerift.net/matriarchal.html
http://wicca.timerift.net/old.html
http://wicca.timerift.net/pagan_women.html
http://wicca.timerift.net/church.html
http://wicca.timerift.net/survival.html
http://wicca.timerift.net/burning.html
What do Wiccans believe?
Basically? In one God and One Goddess. Some Eclectic 'Wiccans' (which will be dealt with in the next post) take Gods and Goddesses of other Pagan religions and use them as their God and Goddess. This tends to really piss of Reconstructionists.
Here are the words of Gerald Gardner on the subject of The Goddess and The God:
http://users.cwnet.com/~season/gardner/mythgds.htm
More Info on deities:
http://users.cwnet.com/~season/gardner/gthegods.htm
What do Wiccans believe about the afterlife?
http://users.cwnet.com/~season/gardner/deathaft.htm
So, Wiccans are Pagans, right?
Correct. All Wiccans are pagans, but not all pagans are wiccans. There are other kinds of pagans, like Reconstructionists.
Furthermore, 'Wiccan' and 'Witch' are not interchangable terms. Not all Witches are Wiccans. Witches are, by definition, people who practice magic. And there are people of other religions who practice magic.
Also, not all pagans are witches, since not all pagans practice magic.
I want to become a Wiccan! What should I do?
Unfortunately, it's not so easy to become a Wiccan. Calling yourself Wicca doesn't necessarily make you a Wiccan. In order to officially be Wiccan, you must be initiated into a lineaged coven. Wicca is not an open religion.
Say what? But I thought you could be a Solitary Wiccan!
And you can, but you need to be initiated first. If you're not into group work, you can be initiated, and then practice on your own from there.
Why do I need to be initiated?
Because Wicca is not a revealed religion like Christianity. You see, in Chrisitanity, the secrets are revealed to Christians through the bible. You don't need to know anything other than what's in the bible to be Christian. And frankly, as long as you're mortal, there really isn't anything else to know.
One of the most common arguments I am confronted with is that religions should be about belief, not religious practices. First of all, this is totally a matter of opinion: orthodoxy (right belief) is not inherently any better than orthopraxy (right practice). If you really hate the idea of orthopraxy that much, stop calling yourself Wiccan.
Anyway, even if it is true, and religions should be about orthodoxy, it doesn't apply to Wicca.
Why?
Because calling yourself 'Wiccan' without being in a coven is like calling yourself 'Buddhist' if you've never read a book on Buddhism. Or, more appropriately, having read a short pamphlet on Buddhism.
The basic tenets of Wiccan belief are laid out in books that are published to the public, yes. The very, very basics. The entire point of Wicca is that it is a mystery religion. No matter how many books you've read, no matter how many years you've 'practiced,' you will never know what is at the core of Wicca untill you join a coven. Nobody is allowed to tell you the secrets involved.
If you don't know what Wicca is really about, how can you call yourself Wiccan?
Many people say, 'But Triste, I do everything that Wiccans do, I'm just not in a coven. That's the only difference.'
No, it's not the only difference. Stop saying that. If you're not in a coven, you don't even know about Wicca. You can't. So it's not just the coven that you're missing. It's a jillion other things that you could learn if you would just join a coven.
You don't have the right to tell people that their religions are wrong.
I'm not saying that their religions are wrong. I'm saying that they aren't Wiccan. If I met someone who believed in a three-headed moon Goddess, and called himself Christian, I would correct him as well. I wouldn't say that believing in a three headed moon goddess was wrong. But I would say that it's not Christian. I don't have a problem with eclecticism. I just have a problem with calling it Wicca.
It's my religious belief that I am Wiccan, so I am!
Really? Cool. It's totally my religious belief that I'm a tree. I am now a tree. DON'T SAY THAT I'M NOT, THAT'S RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE. I am a tree in the eyes of the great Tree Gods, damnit. I AM JUST AN ECLECTIC TREE, OK? I am sick of you ******** traditionalist trees trying to tell me that I need to have leaves and roots.
Linklist
http://wicca.timerift.net/index.html
http://www.whywiccanssuck.com/index.html
http://users.cwnet.com/~season/gardner/ggerald.htm
Fluffbunnies
- www.whywiccanssuck.com
- wicca.timerift.net
Now, for some details.
- http://wicca.timerift.net/fluffy.html
Fluffy Authors to Avoid:
Silver Ravenwolf
More about SRW:
more of me just looking up more than one website
i've been around long enough to get the 'here's why we don't like srw' but i've only ever been given one link (to my memory), so here's another one.
oooh look! she's even got her own page on wikipedia! scandalous!
interesting book review, to say the least.
and another site...o_0 they have more sites on this site! ^_^
Edain Mccoy
DJ Conway
Now for some actual info
Wiccan Holidays
Right. There are 8 Wiccan Holidays, called Samhain, Yule, Imbolc, Eostara, Beltaine, Litha, Lughnasadh/Lammas, and Mabon. These holidays are not originally Wiccan, but are a combination of Norse/Germanic and Celtic holidays. The dates have now become part of the 'life cycle' of the Wiccan God and Goddess.
- http://wicca.timerift.net/sabbat.html
Bonus: Ceremonial Magic, and the Religions/Groups that Influenced Wicca
Ceremonial Magic
As you may or may not know, the type of magic that Wiccans use is the type commonly called Ceremonial Magic. A few of you may be confused by this: after all, Silver Ravenwolf never mentioned ceremonial magic, and from the name, it doesn't sound like it could be done using the Teen Witch Kit. But enough of my pretentious babbling.
Ceremonial magic is generally considered the most complex form of magic. This has obviously been bastardized as the religion continues to be watered down: Wicca seems to have gone from complex ritual and elaborate magic theory to chanting over a green candle to make more money.
Ceremonial magic is commonly associated with and inspired by Hermeticism, which is the practice (and study) of magic, specifically that associated with writings attributed to the god Hermes Trismegistus, the syncretism of the greek god Hermes and the Egyptian god Thoth. Astrology and Alchemy are both parts of ceremonial magic and Hermeticism. For more information on Alchemy, click here. Also, for those skeptical of astrology, or those interested in a skeptics POV, click here. As for Alchemy, I think it should be known (for those who don't feel like clicking the links) that Alchemy is NOT the same as science. It is a precursor to chemistry and science, yes, but since it was created before the scientific method and does not involve the scientific method, it is not really scientific. It's more of a philosophical practice than a scientific one: which is to say that it was less geared towards literally turning lead into gold, and more concerned into taking symbolic 'lead' (which is to say, a common person) into symbolic 'gold' (like a priest or king or deity, etc.).
OH, BY THE WAY:
Edit: Lineage! You can't just make a coven, you need to join a coven with a lineage, i.e. a connection back to Gardner's original. You do NOT need to be related to Gardner, nor do you need to be taught by a relative.
Example of a lineage: the leader of coven X is Joe, who was taught by Bob who was taught by Sam who was taught by Monkeyface who was taught by Gerald Gardner. WOO. Be careful, some people fake their lineages. SILVER RAVENWOLF, cough cough.
Edit 2:
heart Asten
Edit 3:
Even while Gardner was alive, many of the 161 Laws were ignored. Gardner himself broke many of them. And yeah, ultra-traditional covens are against homosexuality.
Important Note - Orthodoxy vs. Orthopraxy
Orthodoxy - A religion that focuses on right beliefs. Chrisitanity is an orthodoxy - it's not important how you worship Yahweh (God the Father), it's only important that you believe in him.
Orthopraxy - A religion that focuses on religious practices, such as rituals or initiations or sacrifices to your deity/deities.
Wicca is not an orthodoxy. It is an orthopraxy.
I'm rewriting the Wiccan FAQ because I can't edit the original and I was being an a*****e when I wrote it. Also some of the s**t was stupid/wrong. DON'T. POST. IN THE OLD ONE. THANK YOU.
Updates + Whatnot
August... Uh, 11th? 12th? Whatever.
So. This thread, which is technically an FAQ (as it should be), has kind of become the unofficial 'debate about covens' thread. I like this. I would like for that to continue.
However.
However, I've been here for a while. If possible, I'd like to extend this FAQ into other directions, and make it as full of information as humanly possible. To that end, I am asking you guys for your help. You guys are mostly older than me, have more experience with Wicca than I do, and probably know what sources are reputable and what sources are not. I'd also like for you guys to have some input as to what should go in. What do you guys want to see in here?
Here's what I'm thinking we should add some more info on:
Golden Dawn and it's relationship to Wicca
Other groups that may have influence Wicca and it's development
Gardner's history, and how much of what he said was true (since he obviously lied about plenty o' s**t)
About ceremonial magic: what it is, its history, etc.
The evolution of Wicca: what exactly started the trend of Solitary and Eclectic 'Wicca.'
Traditions other than Gardnerian: which ones are valid, which ones are not?
August 6th - New question/answer, because I suck.
Furthermore, I am now the sole member/leader of the Traditionalist Intolerant b*****d Super Guild of Magical a**-Pagan Musketeers. Yes.
Winner of everything:
Reverend Smooth
Just doing my educational part. gonk
(Actually, it should be heirloom tomatoes. Because Gardenarian Wiccans only plant the seeds of the original tomatoes that were handed down to them in an unbroken line. Other secrets are the scourging of the tomato hornworms and the fivefold blast of garlic spray to deter aphids.)
(Yes. I garden. But I am not a Gardenarian.)
(Actually, it should be heirloom tomatoes. Because Gardenarian Wiccans only plant the seeds of the original tomatoes that were handed down to them in an unbroken line. Other secrets are the scourging of the tomato hornworms and the fivefold blast of garlic spray to deter aphids.)
(Yes. I garden. But I am not a Gardenarian.)
NEW POST FROM NURI:
Nuri
New Argument.
These new "branches" of wicca want to worship the same Gods as Trad Wicca right? That's all fine and dandy. But the way they do it is so entirely different from the original.
So Trad Wicca is Judaism. Worshipping a God with a lot of rules regarding weird stuff, ect...
This new stuff IS Christianity. Same God-a lot looser in the way to worship, a lot more varity in beliefs.
Its an entirely different religion, with its own name, but it still worships the same Gods. Elements are the same, but theres a lot thats new.
These new "branches" of wicca want to worship the same Gods as Trad Wicca right? That's all fine and dandy. But the way they do it is so entirely different from the original.
So Trad Wicca is Judaism. Worshipping a God with a lot of rules regarding weird stuff, ect...
This new stuff IS Christianity. Same God-a lot looser in the way to worship, a lot more varity in beliefs.
Its an entirely different religion, with its own name, but it still worships the same Gods. Elements are the same, but theres a lot thats new.
FOMG SHE HAS SPOKEN.
I think this pretty much sums up my argument.
Wiccan FAQ
Ok, most important question ever: What is the elemental weapon of ether?
Hehehehehe. No idea.
What are the Origins of Wicca?
Wicca: For the Rest of Us
History
Wicca began with a man named Gerald Gardner in the mid 20th century. Many people give the year 1954 as its inception, because this is when Gardner published Witchcraft Today. Gardner had, however, already published High Magic's Aid in 1949 under the pseudonym Scire, and it was not until 1959, in The Meaning of Witchcraft, that he mentions the word "Wica".
Gardner claimed that in 1939 he was initiated into the New Forest Coven by one Dorothy Clutterbuck. Whether this coven ever existed is still in question today, and if it did, how old it actually was. Gardner claimed it to be part of the Old Religion - he even had Margaret Murray write the forward of Witchcraft Today.
The simple fact is that much of what Gardner taught in his books were derived from ceremonial magic. Gardner was a brief friend of occultist Alister Crowley (they met only a year before Crowley's death) and a member of the OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis). But Gardner's views of magic and religion did vary from that of ceremonial magic. Among other things, Crowley taught that magic was the power of will, while Wicca puts the origins of magic in the God and Goddess.
Gardner's Wicca was much more male-oriented than modern Wiccans associate with the religion. The increased female-orientation stated with his student, Doreen Valiente.
Gardner's Wicca was innitiatory, and Gardnerian Wicca continues to be so to this day - if you're not a member, you can't participate. You can't even learn a great deal about them. The problem with innitiatory religions, however, is that if no one can talk about it, it doesn't grow very fast.
Since then, however, there have been several developments, including the Eclectic movement. Eclectics generally don't believe in secrecy or innitiation. They also don't hold as much value to specific traditions. This made Wicca more publically available. It also, however, opened the floodgates for all manner of ideas.
Wicca began with a man named Gerald Gardner in the mid 20th century. Many people give the year 1954 as its inception, because this is when Gardner published Witchcraft Today. Gardner had, however, already published High Magic's Aid in 1949 under the pseudonym Scire, and it was not until 1959, in The Meaning of Witchcraft, that he mentions the word "Wica".
Gardner claimed that in 1939 he was initiated into the New Forest Coven by one Dorothy Clutterbuck. Whether this coven ever existed is still in question today, and if it did, how old it actually was. Gardner claimed it to be part of the Old Religion - he even had Margaret Murray write the forward of Witchcraft Today.
The simple fact is that much of what Gardner taught in his books were derived from ceremonial magic. Gardner was a brief friend of occultist Alister Crowley (they met only a year before Crowley's death) and a member of the OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis). But Gardner's views of magic and religion did vary from that of ceremonial magic. Among other things, Crowley taught that magic was the power of will, while Wicca puts the origins of magic in the God and Goddess.
Gardner's Wicca was much more male-oriented than modern Wiccans associate with the religion. The increased female-orientation stated with his student, Doreen Valiente.
Gardner's Wicca was innitiatory, and Gardnerian Wicca continues to be so to this day - if you're not a member, you can't participate. You can't even learn a great deal about them. The problem with innitiatory religions, however, is that if no one can talk about it, it doesn't grow very fast.
Since then, however, there have been several developments, including the Eclectic movement. Eclectics generally don't believe in secrecy or innitiation. They also don't hold as much value to specific traditions. This made Wicca more publically available. It also, however, opened the floodgates for all manner of ideas.
Many of you may have been under the impression that Wicca was older than 60/50/Whatever years old. For more information on the false origins of Wicca, please visit these pages and READ THEM:
http://wicca.timerift.net/origins2.html
http://wicca.timerift.net/matriarchal.html
http://wicca.timerift.net/old.html
http://wicca.timerift.net/pagan_women.html
http://wicca.timerift.net/church.html
http://wicca.timerift.net/survival.html
http://wicca.timerift.net/burning.html
What do Wiccans believe?
Basically? In one God and One Goddess. Some Eclectic 'Wiccans' (which will be dealt with in the next post) take Gods and Goddesses of other Pagan religions and use them as their God and Goddess. This tends to really piss of Reconstructionists.
Here are the words of Gerald Gardner on the subject of The Goddess and The God:
http://users.cwnet.com/~season/gardner/mythgds.htm
Quote:
Now G. (the Goddess) had never loved, but she would solve all mysteries, even the mystery of Death, and so she journeyed to the nether lands. The guardians of the portals challenged her. "Strip off thy garments, lay aside thy jewels, for nought may ye bring with you into this our land." So she laid down her garments and her jewels and was bound as are all who enter the realms of Death, the mighty one. [Original footnote: See Note 2(page 159). This concerns the practice of binding after death.]
Such was her beauty that Death himself knelt and kissed her feet, saying: "Blessed be thy feet that have brought thee in these ways. Abide with me, but let me place my cold hand on thy heart." And she replied: "I love thee not. Why doest thou cause all things that I love and take delight in to fade and die?" "Lady," replied Death, "'tis age and fate, against which I am helpless. Age causes all things to wither; but when men die at the end of time, I give them rest and peace and strength so that may return. But you, you are lovely. Return not; abide with me." But she answered: "I love thee not." Then said Death: "As you receive not my hand on your heart, you must receive Death's scourge." "It is fate, better so," she said, and she knelt. Death scourged her and she cried: "I know the pangs of love." And Death said: "Blessed be," and gave her the fivefold kiss, saying: "Thus only may you attain to joy and knowledge."
And he taught her all the mysteries, and they loved and were one; and he taught her all the magics. For there are three great events in the life of man -- love, death and resurrection in the new body -- and magic controls them all. To fulfil love you must return again at the same time and place as the loved ones, and you must remember and love her or him again. But to be reborn you must die and be made ready for a new body; to die you must be born; without love you may not be born, and this is all the magic.
Such was her beauty that Death himself knelt and kissed her feet, saying: "Blessed be thy feet that have brought thee in these ways. Abide with me, but let me place my cold hand on thy heart." And she replied: "I love thee not. Why doest thou cause all things that I love and take delight in to fade and die?" "Lady," replied Death, "'tis age and fate, against which I am helpless. Age causes all things to wither; but when men die at the end of time, I give them rest and peace and strength so that may return. But you, you are lovely. Return not; abide with me." But she answered: "I love thee not." Then said Death: "As you receive not my hand on your heart, you must receive Death's scourge." "It is fate, better so," she said, and she knelt. Death scourged her and she cried: "I know the pangs of love." And Death said: "Blessed be," and gave her the fivefold kiss, saying: "Thus only may you attain to joy and knowledge."
And he taught her all the mysteries, and they loved and were one; and he taught her all the magics. For there are three great events in the life of man -- love, death and resurrection in the new body -- and magic controls them all. To fulfil love you must return again at the same time and place as the loved ones, and you must remember and love her or him again. But to be reborn you must die and be made ready for a new body; to die you must be born; without love you may not be born, and this is all the magic.
More Info on deities:
http://users.cwnet.com/~season/gardner/gthegods.htm
What do Wiccans believe about the afterlife?
http://users.cwnet.com/~season/gardner/deathaft.htm
Quote:
I do not think that primitive people were as afraid of death as many people are today. Living closer to nature, their psychic powers were more active, and they were used to the idea of communicating with their dead relatives and friends. They looked upon it as quite a natural thing. Hence the witches, among whom this ancient creed is still preserved in a fragmentary form, do not regard the Horned God in his form as lord of the Gates of Death as a terrifying being, nor have they any conception of a burning "Hell" such as some Christians envisage.
Their idea of the After-Life is rather that of a place of rest and refreshment, where people await their turn to be born again on this earth. This, of course, is the concept of reincarnation, which is widely held among primitive people of all kinds. To them, the most logical place for the souls of new-born babies to have come from is the Land of the Dead, where there are plenty of souls awaiting another body. Hence the Lord of the Gates of Death is also the phallic deity of fertility, the Opener of the Door of LIfe.
This is why the witches' god was incorporated into the Roman pantheon as Janus, the two-faced god who was Guardian of the Gates. He and his consort Diana are two of the oldest deities of Western Europe, and Diana is named in the Canon Episcopi of the early tenth century as being the goddess of the witches.
Authentic witchcraft is certainly not black magic, because witches do not even believe in the devil, let alone invoke him. The Old Horned God of the witches is not the Satan of Christianity, and no amount of theological argument will make him so. He is, in fact, the oldest deity known to man, and is depicted in the oldest representation of a divinity which has yet been found, namely the Stone Age painting in the innermost recess of the Caverne des Trois Freres at Ariege. He is the old phallic god of fertility who has come forth from the morning of the world, and who was already of immeasurable antiquity before Egypt and Babylon, let alone before the Christian era. Nor did he perish at the cry that Great Pan was dead.
Secretly through the centuries, hidden deeper and deeper as time went on, his worship and that of the naked Moon Goddess, his bride, the Lady of Mystery and Magic and the forbidden joys, continued sometimes among the great ones of the land, sometimes in humble cottages, or on lonely heaths and in the depths of darkling woods, on summer nights when the moon rode high. It does so still.
"Dame Habonde" was Abundia, the Goddess of Fertility, and "Bensozia" was "Bona Socia", The Good Neighbour". All these terms are titles of the Witch Goddess, and euphemisms for her real name, even as her followers, the witches, are referred to as "les bonnes dames". Other terms for the Goddess were "La Reine Pedauque", the Queen with the Goose-Foot (the "goose-foot" being itself a euphemism for her sigh, the Pentagram); and "Frau Hilde" or "Holda" in Teutonic countries.
Dr. W., Wagner's Asgard and the Gods: the Tales and Traditions of our Northern Ancestors says of Holda "...that those who were crippled in any way were restored to full strength and power by bathing in her Quickborn (fountain of life) and that old men found their vanished youth there once more."
This is precisely the witches' Goddess of Rebirth and Resurrection; and it is the same tale which was told about the magical cauldron of the Ancient British Goddess, Cerridwen. The inner meaning in both cases is the same; the Goddess's gift is rebirth in a new body, reincarnation. "With sturdier limbs and brighter brain, the old soul takes the road again." Incidentally, this may be the inner meaning of the old British tale of Avalon, the Place of Apples. Every old Celtic tale speaks of the after-world as a place of apple-trees, but nobody seems to know just why.
If the reader cares to make the experiment of slicing an apple across, he will see the answer: the core forms the sign of the Pentagram, the symbol of the Goddess of Rebirth and Resurrection. "Avalon" was the place where souls went to rest between incarnation on earth. To this day, in the witch ritual, the Priestess first stands with her arms crossed on her breast and her feet together, to represent the God of Death, and then opens out her arms and stands with feet apart to represent the Goddess of Resurrection. In this position the human body resembles the figure of the Pentacle, or Pentagram. Because it was the place from which the old and weary soul was reborn in a young body, with its strength and courage renewed: Avalon was also called in the Celtic "Tir-nan-Og", the land of Youth.
The purpose of contacting the gods was to keep contact with the forces of life, and these were identical with the forces of magic and fertility.
"The divine itself is without needs, and the worship is paid for our own benefit. The providence of the Gods reaches everywhere, and needs only some congruity for its reception." (Compare wit the witches' idea that man had to do something to "build a bridge", so to speak, between himself and the Gods).
Their idea of the After-Life is rather that of a place of rest and refreshment, where people await their turn to be born again on this earth. This, of course, is the concept of reincarnation, which is widely held among primitive people of all kinds. To them, the most logical place for the souls of new-born babies to have come from is the Land of the Dead, where there are plenty of souls awaiting another body. Hence the Lord of the Gates of Death is also the phallic deity of fertility, the Opener of the Door of LIfe.
This is why the witches' god was incorporated into the Roman pantheon as Janus, the two-faced god who was Guardian of the Gates. He and his consort Diana are two of the oldest deities of Western Europe, and Diana is named in the Canon Episcopi of the early tenth century as being the goddess of the witches.
Authentic witchcraft is certainly not black magic, because witches do not even believe in the devil, let alone invoke him. The Old Horned God of the witches is not the Satan of Christianity, and no amount of theological argument will make him so. He is, in fact, the oldest deity known to man, and is depicted in the oldest representation of a divinity which has yet been found, namely the Stone Age painting in the innermost recess of the Caverne des Trois Freres at Ariege. He is the old phallic god of fertility who has come forth from the morning of the world, and who was already of immeasurable antiquity before Egypt and Babylon, let alone before the Christian era. Nor did he perish at the cry that Great Pan was dead.
Secretly through the centuries, hidden deeper and deeper as time went on, his worship and that of the naked Moon Goddess, his bride, the Lady of Mystery and Magic and the forbidden joys, continued sometimes among the great ones of the land, sometimes in humble cottages, or on lonely heaths and in the depths of darkling woods, on summer nights when the moon rode high. It does so still.
"Dame Habonde" was Abundia, the Goddess of Fertility, and "Bensozia" was "Bona Socia", The Good Neighbour". All these terms are titles of the Witch Goddess, and euphemisms for her real name, even as her followers, the witches, are referred to as "les bonnes dames". Other terms for the Goddess were "La Reine Pedauque", the Queen with the Goose-Foot (the "goose-foot" being itself a euphemism for her sigh, the Pentagram); and "Frau Hilde" or "Holda" in Teutonic countries.
Dr. W., Wagner's Asgard and the Gods: the Tales and Traditions of our Northern Ancestors says of Holda "...that those who were crippled in any way were restored to full strength and power by bathing in her Quickborn (fountain of life) and that old men found their vanished youth there once more."
This is precisely the witches' Goddess of Rebirth and Resurrection; and it is the same tale which was told about the magical cauldron of the Ancient British Goddess, Cerridwen. The inner meaning in both cases is the same; the Goddess's gift is rebirth in a new body, reincarnation. "With sturdier limbs and brighter brain, the old soul takes the road again." Incidentally, this may be the inner meaning of the old British tale of Avalon, the Place of Apples. Every old Celtic tale speaks of the after-world as a place of apple-trees, but nobody seems to know just why.
If the reader cares to make the experiment of slicing an apple across, he will see the answer: the core forms the sign of the Pentagram, the symbol of the Goddess of Rebirth and Resurrection. "Avalon" was the place where souls went to rest between incarnation on earth. To this day, in the witch ritual, the Priestess first stands with her arms crossed on her breast and her feet together, to represent the God of Death, and then opens out her arms and stands with feet apart to represent the Goddess of Resurrection. In this position the human body resembles the figure of the Pentacle, or Pentagram. Because it was the place from which the old and weary soul was reborn in a young body, with its strength and courage renewed: Avalon was also called in the Celtic "Tir-nan-Og", the land of Youth.
The purpose of contacting the gods was to keep contact with the forces of life, and these were identical with the forces of magic and fertility.
"The divine itself is without needs, and the worship is paid for our own benefit. The providence of the Gods reaches everywhere, and needs only some congruity for its reception." (Compare wit the witches' idea that man had to do something to "build a bridge", so to speak, between himself and the Gods).
So, Wiccans are Pagans, right?
Correct. All Wiccans are pagans, but not all pagans are wiccans. There are other kinds of pagans, like Reconstructionists.
Furthermore, 'Wiccan' and 'Witch' are not interchangable terms. Not all Witches are Wiccans. Witches are, by definition, people who practice magic. And there are people of other religions who practice magic.
Also, not all pagans are witches, since not all pagans practice magic.
I want to become a Wiccan! What should I do?
Unfortunately, it's not so easy to become a Wiccan. Calling yourself Wicca doesn't necessarily make you a Wiccan. In order to officially be Wiccan, you must be initiated into a lineaged coven. Wicca is not an open religion.
Say what? But I thought you could be a Solitary Wiccan!
And you can, but you need to be initiated first. If you're not into group work, you can be initiated, and then practice on your own from there.
Why do I need to be initiated?
Because Wicca is not a revealed religion like Christianity. You see, in Chrisitanity, the secrets are revealed to Christians through the bible. You don't need to know anything other than what's in the bible to be Christian. And frankly, as long as you're mortal, there really isn't anything else to know.
One of the most common arguments I am confronted with is that religions should be about belief, not religious practices. First of all, this is totally a matter of opinion: orthodoxy (right belief) is not inherently any better than orthopraxy (right practice). If you really hate the idea of orthopraxy that much, stop calling yourself Wiccan.
Anyway, even if it is true, and religions should be about orthodoxy, it doesn't apply to Wicca.
Why?
Because calling yourself 'Wiccan' without being in a coven is like calling yourself 'Buddhist' if you've never read a book on Buddhism. Or, more appropriately, having read a short pamphlet on Buddhism.
The basic tenets of Wiccan belief are laid out in books that are published to the public, yes. The very, very basics. The entire point of Wicca is that it is a mystery religion. No matter how many books you've read, no matter how many years you've 'practiced,' you will never know what is at the core of Wicca untill you join a coven. Nobody is allowed to tell you the secrets involved.
If you don't know what Wicca is really about, how can you call yourself Wiccan?
Many people say, 'But Triste, I do everything that Wiccans do, I'm just not in a coven. That's the only difference.'
No, it's not the only difference. Stop saying that. If you're not in a coven, you don't even know about Wicca. You can't. So it's not just the coven that you're missing. It's a jillion other things that you could learn if you would just join a coven.
You don't have the right to tell people that their religions are wrong.
I'm not saying that their religions are wrong. I'm saying that they aren't Wiccan. If I met someone who believed in a three-headed moon Goddess, and called himself Christian, I would correct him as well. I wouldn't say that believing in a three headed moon goddess was wrong. But I would say that it's not Christian. I don't have a problem with eclecticism. I just have a problem with calling it Wicca.
It's my religious belief that I am Wiccan, so I am!
Really? Cool. It's totally my religious belief that I'm a tree. I am now a tree. DON'T SAY THAT I'M NOT, THAT'S RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE. I am a tree in the eyes of the great Tree Gods, damnit. I AM JUST AN ECLECTIC TREE, OK? I am sick of you ******** traditionalist trees trying to tell me that I need to have leaves and roots.
Linklist
http://wicca.timerift.net/index.html
http://www.whywiccanssuck.com/index.html
http://users.cwnet.com/~season/gardner/ggerald.htm
Fluffbunnies
Quote:
fluffbunny
The "Wiccan" wannabes who are delighted to be persecuted, and came here to give me a piece of their mind. If my website offends you, then you're probably one of them.
The "Wiccan" wannabes who are delighted to be persecuted, and came here to give me a piece of their mind. If my website offends you, then you're probably one of them.
- www.whywiccanssuck.com
Quote:
Fluffy Bunny Pagans, Fuzzy Bunny Wiccans, or simply Silly Pagans are those people who, most broadly categorized, give the rest of us a bad name, not by doing bad or objectionable things but instead being unserious, sophomoric, or just plain wrong.
- wicca.timerift.net
Now, for some details.
Quote:
The first definition of a Fluffy Bunny is one who refuses to learn, refuses to think, and refuses to consider the possibility that they could possibly ever be wrong. Generally they find one book, author or website and follow it as if it were the holy word, denouncing anything that disagrees with it as obviously false. Fluffy Bunnies rarely get past the defense of "Because [insert favorite author here] says so." Sometimes they don't even get that far, responding to any and all criticism with something like, "You're just trying to persecute me!"
The second flavor of Fluffy Bunny is the type that's into Wicca mostly for show. This includes those who:
Are into Wicca to upset their parents and just plain "be different". This generally occurs during the teenage years, but its amazing how many of the Fluffy Bunnies never really grow out of this stage.
Think black clothes and huge pentagrams are appropriate Wiccan dress. You're allowed to wear anything you want. If goth's your thing, so be it. But those who dress that way do so out of personal choice, not because of their religion. Author Laurie Cabot is the absolute worst, dressing day to day in a long black robe which she describes as "traditional Wiccan garb." And before you load yourself down with ten pounds of silver pentagrams, imagine a Christian wearing an equivalent amount of religious jewelry. I think we'd all find that truly obnoxious.
Believe the God and/or Goddess are an embodiment of love and want nothing but what's best for us. Author Phyllis Curott, whom I otherwise respect, supports this outlook. For a religion that has no embodiment of evil, how in the name of balance can our gods be dedicated to good and benevolence?
Think picking up one book on Wicca ever makes them Wiccan. No one possesses the Divine and Ultimate Truth. Wiccans are seekers, and everything you read helps you further develop and understand your faith. You're not going to agree with everything you read, and that's fine. You should allow yourself the opportunity to choose what you accept and what you do not.
Think speaking a few words out of a book over a candle is how one makes magic. An entire library of books will not allow you to practice magic on their own. It involves belief, focus, practice, and serious intention. It also involves responsibility and a healthy dose of common sense. Laurie Cabot relates one student she had who after one workshop was going around town claiming to hex all of her enemies. Sorry, not likely.
Preach that Wicca is all "goodness and light". The corollary to this is the exclamation of "So-and-so couldn't have done that. She's Wiccan!" Like everyone else in the world, we are not saints.
Claims that Wicca is a "woman-thing". Both genders are equally welcome, which some women find to be a positive change from previous religious experiences, but Wicca is not about femininity. Some people will even say being a woman is the only reason they are a Wiccan. Wicca is a religion, not a political movement.
Those who took up Wicca to spite their Christian upbringing. We are not against any religion. Moreover, most of the accusations leveled at Christians in the name of Wicca were never committed against Wiccans, if indeed they were committed at all.
Overly ostentatious ceremonial tools. I have found that, in general, the more flashy (or even gaudy) the tools, the more interested the Wiccan is in appearances over any actual religion.
Quoting Margaret Murray. This woman's writing is the basis of a lot of our supposed history. The problem is her work was debunked decades ago and the only people who take her seriously are some Wiccans and Pagans, including some very influential writers. For more information, see Murray's Unlikely History.
Users of "White Magic". This term makes no sense. It's most often used by those who swear up and down that witchcraft is not evil and was in fact only called evil by the Church as part of a smear campaign. If that's the case, then why the clarification? The existence of white magic implies an existence in black magic. The simple fact is that magic, like any tool, is neither good nor evil, although it can be used toward either purpose.
Odd spellings of "magic". The most common misspelling is "magick", and the logic is that this spelling differentiates our magic from stage magic. Mostly, however, it just demonstrates that we can't spell. More extreme Fluffies will even speak of "majick" or (good grief) "majik". For more on why strange letters get added to "magic", check out Magic.
Being a newcomer to Wicca does not make one a Fluffy Bunny. All of us were new to this at one point in our lives. Moreover, having bad information likewise does not make one a Bunny. There's still a lot of bad information available in books and websites, and if that is the first information you find, how can you know it's bad? There's only a problem when one stubbornly refuses to question that original information regardless of the mountains of evidence put before them.
The second flavor of Fluffy Bunny is the type that's into Wicca mostly for show. This includes those who:
Are into Wicca to upset their parents and just plain "be different". This generally occurs during the teenage years, but its amazing how many of the Fluffy Bunnies never really grow out of this stage.
Think black clothes and huge pentagrams are appropriate Wiccan dress. You're allowed to wear anything you want. If goth's your thing, so be it. But those who dress that way do so out of personal choice, not because of their religion. Author Laurie Cabot is the absolute worst, dressing day to day in a long black robe which she describes as "traditional Wiccan garb." And before you load yourself down with ten pounds of silver pentagrams, imagine a Christian wearing an equivalent amount of religious jewelry. I think we'd all find that truly obnoxious.
Believe the God and/or Goddess are an embodiment of love and want nothing but what's best for us. Author Phyllis Curott, whom I otherwise respect, supports this outlook. For a religion that has no embodiment of evil, how in the name of balance can our gods be dedicated to good and benevolence?
Think picking up one book on Wicca ever makes them Wiccan. No one possesses the Divine and Ultimate Truth. Wiccans are seekers, and everything you read helps you further develop and understand your faith. You're not going to agree with everything you read, and that's fine. You should allow yourself the opportunity to choose what you accept and what you do not.
Think speaking a few words out of a book over a candle is how one makes magic. An entire library of books will not allow you to practice magic on their own. It involves belief, focus, practice, and serious intention. It also involves responsibility and a healthy dose of common sense. Laurie Cabot relates one student she had who after one workshop was going around town claiming to hex all of her enemies. Sorry, not likely.
Preach that Wicca is all "goodness and light". The corollary to this is the exclamation of "So-and-so couldn't have done that. She's Wiccan!" Like everyone else in the world, we are not saints.
Claims that Wicca is a "woman-thing". Both genders are equally welcome, which some women find to be a positive change from previous religious experiences, but Wicca is not about femininity. Some people will even say being a woman is the only reason they are a Wiccan. Wicca is a religion, not a political movement.
Those who took up Wicca to spite their Christian upbringing. We are not against any religion. Moreover, most of the accusations leveled at Christians in the name of Wicca were never committed against Wiccans, if indeed they were committed at all.
Overly ostentatious ceremonial tools. I have found that, in general, the more flashy (or even gaudy) the tools, the more interested the Wiccan is in appearances over any actual religion.
Quoting Margaret Murray. This woman's writing is the basis of a lot of our supposed history. The problem is her work was debunked decades ago and the only people who take her seriously are some Wiccans and Pagans, including some very influential writers. For more information, see Murray's Unlikely History.
Users of "White Magic". This term makes no sense. It's most often used by those who swear up and down that witchcraft is not evil and was in fact only called evil by the Church as part of a smear campaign. If that's the case, then why the clarification? The existence of white magic implies an existence in black magic. The simple fact is that magic, like any tool, is neither good nor evil, although it can be used toward either purpose.
Odd spellings of "magic". The most common misspelling is "magick", and the logic is that this spelling differentiates our magic from stage magic. Mostly, however, it just demonstrates that we can't spell. More extreme Fluffies will even speak of "majick" or (good grief) "majik". For more on why strange letters get added to "magic", check out Magic.
Being a newcomer to Wicca does not make one a Fluffy Bunny. All of us were new to this at one point in our lives. Moreover, having bad information likewise does not make one a Bunny. There's still a lot of bad information available in books and websites, and if that is the first information you find, how can you know it's bad? There's only a problem when one stubbornly refuses to question that original information regardless of the mountains of evidence put before them.
- http://wicca.timerift.net/fluffy.html
Fluffy Authors to Avoid:
Silver Ravenwolf
More about SRW:
phoenix_shadowwolf
more of me just looking up more than one website
i've been around long enough to get the 'here's why we don't like srw' but i've only ever been given one link (to my memory), so here's another one.
oooh look! she's even got her own page on wikipedia! scandalous!
interesting book review, to say the least.
and another site...o_0 they have more sites on this site! ^_^
Edain Mccoy
DJ Conway
Now for some actual info
Wiccan Holidays
Right. There are 8 Wiccan Holidays, called Samhain, Yule, Imbolc, Eostara, Beltaine, Litha, Lughnasadh/Lammas, and Mabon. These holidays are not originally Wiccan, but are a combination of Norse/Germanic and Celtic holidays. The dates have now become part of the 'life cycle' of the Wiccan God and Goddess.
Quote:
Yule - Minor sabbat
Also know as Midwinter
Winter solstice (around December 22)
Wiccan mythology: The birth of the God
Yule is a celebration of life emerging from darkness and is honored with the exchange of presents. Evergreens, holly, ivy and mistletoe can be symbolic of the God, still living and green in the dead of winter.
Imbolc (im' molc) or (im' bolc) - Major sabbat
15 degrees of Aquarius, or February 1
Wiccan mythology: Goddess recovers from childbrith, becomes Maiden.
Imbolc is the beginning of Spring. The child God continues to mature, as can be witnessed in the lengthening days, and celebrations freqently center around light. The Crone Goddess of Winter makes way for the Maiden, who has recovered from childbirth and prepares the earth to begin its growth cycle once more. Imbolc is therefore also a hoiday of purification, a stripping away of the old in anticipation of the new.
Historically, Imbolc was an Irish holiday specifically dedicated to Brigid or Bride, goddess of creativity, smithing, and healing.
Eostara (os tar' a) - Minor sabbat
Vernal equinox (around March 22)
Wiccan mythology: Sexual union of the Goddess and God (sometimes)
Eostara is a celebration of fertility, conception and regeneration as the earth recovers from winter and begins to bloom. It is also a triumph of light over dark as from now until Litha days will be longer than the nights.
In former days, Eostara was a time of sowing and planting. Today, Eostara is a time for putting plans into motion, sowing the seeds of ideas that may not reach fruition for many months.
The name Eostara is a misnomer. It's named for the goddess Eostre, but her festival wasn't associated with the equinox. I've seen unconfirmed suggestions that her festival was the first full moon after the equinox, which would make sense, since the Christian Easter is the first Sunday after the full moon after the equinox.
The union of Goddess and God varies by tradition. A few date it as early as Imbolc. Some attribute it to Eostara, others to Beltaine. Eostara has the benefit of being 9 months prior to Yule, when the Goddess gives birth.
Beltaine - Major sabbat
15 degrees of Taurus, or May 1
Wiccan mythology: Sexual union and/or marriage of the Goddess and God
Beltaine, the start of Summer, is the most important sabbat after Samhain. It is another fertility celebration, but mostly it is a celebration of joy and life. Named for the Celtic fire god Bel, the lighting of fires is a frequent component of Beltaine events. It's association with fire also makes Beltaine a holiday of purification.
It must be remembered that even our modern interpretations of these holidays are based on older holidays celebrated at a time when the year was marked by seasonal changes, not a calendar on the wall. On the continent, where Eostre was worshipped, the earth has generally returned to life by the vernal equinox. However, in Celtic Britain, the ground is still cold in March, and so Beltaine becomes the great festival of life, when Goddess and God have matured to unite as one.
On Beltaine, the Light God has matured to the age of rulership and takes over from the Dark God. The pregnant Goddess becomes Mother.
Wiccan weddings are frequently held on or around Beltaine.
Litha - Minor sabbat
Also known as Midsummer
Summer solstice (around June 22)
Wiccan mythology: Apex of the God's life
Celebrating the God's life, Litha is another fire festival. It is a holiday of transition, when the God transforms from young warrior to aging sage. It is a time for rejoicing, but also of introspection, making sure plans are still on track and correcting negative aspects of one's life.
Litha is a modern name for this sabbat. There is no historical record of the name.
Lughnasadh (loo' na sah) or (loon' sah) - Major sabbat
Also known as Lammas
15 degrees of Leo, or August 1
Wiccan mythology: Aging God
Lughnasadh is the start of Autumn and was the time of the first harvest, and so this is a holiday of fruition and also of preparation for the oncoming winter, as well as the God's impending death. The Goddess enters her phase as Crone. It is a time of giving thanks for all that we have, all that we will have, and all that others have sacrificed for us.
Mabon - Minor sabbat
Autumnal equinox (around Spetember 22)
Wiccan mythology: Decline of the God
Mabon was the second harvest, and as such becomes another holiday of thanksgiving. It is also the day when darkness once more overtakes light, and so it is a day of planning, reflection, and the contemplation of mysteries.
While a minor sabbat, Mabon is named after a Celtic, not Germanic, god who was imprisoned only to return at a later date. The name does not appear to have been historically attributed to any festival.
Also know as Midwinter
Winter solstice (around December 22)
Wiccan mythology: The birth of the God
Yule is a celebration of life emerging from darkness and is honored with the exchange of presents. Evergreens, holly, ivy and mistletoe can be symbolic of the God, still living and green in the dead of winter.
Imbolc (im' molc) or (im' bolc) - Major sabbat
15 degrees of Aquarius, or February 1
Wiccan mythology: Goddess recovers from childbrith, becomes Maiden.
Imbolc is the beginning of Spring. The child God continues to mature, as can be witnessed in the lengthening days, and celebrations freqently center around light. The Crone Goddess of Winter makes way for the Maiden, who has recovered from childbirth and prepares the earth to begin its growth cycle once more. Imbolc is therefore also a hoiday of purification, a stripping away of the old in anticipation of the new.
Historically, Imbolc was an Irish holiday specifically dedicated to Brigid or Bride, goddess of creativity, smithing, and healing.
Eostara (os tar' a) - Minor sabbat
Vernal equinox (around March 22)
Wiccan mythology: Sexual union of the Goddess and God (sometimes)
Eostara is a celebration of fertility, conception and regeneration as the earth recovers from winter and begins to bloom. It is also a triumph of light over dark as from now until Litha days will be longer than the nights.
In former days, Eostara was a time of sowing and planting. Today, Eostara is a time for putting plans into motion, sowing the seeds of ideas that may not reach fruition for many months.
The name Eostara is a misnomer. It's named for the goddess Eostre, but her festival wasn't associated with the equinox. I've seen unconfirmed suggestions that her festival was the first full moon after the equinox, which would make sense, since the Christian Easter is the first Sunday after the full moon after the equinox.
The union of Goddess and God varies by tradition. A few date it as early as Imbolc. Some attribute it to Eostara, others to Beltaine. Eostara has the benefit of being 9 months prior to Yule, when the Goddess gives birth.
Beltaine - Major sabbat
15 degrees of Taurus, or May 1
Wiccan mythology: Sexual union and/or marriage of the Goddess and God
Beltaine, the start of Summer, is the most important sabbat after Samhain. It is another fertility celebration, but mostly it is a celebration of joy and life. Named for the Celtic fire god Bel, the lighting of fires is a frequent component of Beltaine events. It's association with fire also makes Beltaine a holiday of purification.
It must be remembered that even our modern interpretations of these holidays are based on older holidays celebrated at a time when the year was marked by seasonal changes, not a calendar on the wall. On the continent, where Eostre was worshipped, the earth has generally returned to life by the vernal equinox. However, in Celtic Britain, the ground is still cold in March, and so Beltaine becomes the great festival of life, when Goddess and God have matured to unite as one.
On Beltaine, the Light God has matured to the age of rulership and takes over from the Dark God. The pregnant Goddess becomes Mother.
Wiccan weddings are frequently held on or around Beltaine.
Litha - Minor sabbat
Also known as Midsummer
Summer solstice (around June 22)
Wiccan mythology: Apex of the God's life
Celebrating the God's life, Litha is another fire festival. It is a holiday of transition, when the God transforms from young warrior to aging sage. It is a time for rejoicing, but also of introspection, making sure plans are still on track and correcting negative aspects of one's life.
Litha is a modern name for this sabbat. There is no historical record of the name.
Lughnasadh (loo' na sah) or (loon' sah) - Major sabbat
Also known as Lammas
15 degrees of Leo, or August 1
Wiccan mythology: Aging God
Lughnasadh is the start of Autumn and was the time of the first harvest, and so this is a holiday of fruition and also of preparation for the oncoming winter, as well as the God's impending death. The Goddess enters her phase as Crone. It is a time of giving thanks for all that we have, all that we will have, and all that others have sacrificed for us.
Mabon - Minor sabbat
Autumnal equinox (around Spetember 22)
Wiccan mythology: Decline of the God
Mabon was the second harvest, and as such becomes another holiday of thanksgiving. It is also the day when darkness once more overtakes light, and so it is a day of planning, reflection, and the contemplation of mysteries.
While a minor sabbat, Mabon is named after a Celtic, not Germanic, god who was imprisoned only to return at a later date. The name does not appear to have been historically attributed to any festival.
- http://wicca.timerift.net/sabbat.html
Bonus: Ceremonial Magic, and the Religions/Groups that Influenced Wicca
Ceremonial Magic
As you may or may not know, the type of magic that Wiccans use is the type commonly called Ceremonial Magic. A few of you may be confused by this: after all, Silver Ravenwolf never mentioned ceremonial magic, and from the name, it doesn't sound like it could be done using the Teen Witch Kit. But enough of my pretentious babbling.
Ceremonial magic is generally considered the most complex form of magic. This has obviously been bastardized as the religion continues to be watered down: Wicca seems to have gone from complex ritual and elaborate magic theory to chanting over a green candle to make more money.
Ceremonial magic is commonly associated with and inspired by Hermeticism, which is the practice (and study) of magic, specifically that associated with writings attributed to the god Hermes Trismegistus, the syncretism of the greek god Hermes and the Egyptian god Thoth. Astrology and Alchemy are both parts of ceremonial magic and Hermeticism. For more information on Alchemy, click here. Also, for those skeptical of astrology, or those interested in a skeptics POV, click here. As for Alchemy, I think it should be known (for those who don't feel like clicking the links) that Alchemy is NOT the same as science. It is a precursor to chemistry and science, yes, but since it was created before the scientific method and does not involve the scientific method, it is not really scientific. It's more of a philosophical practice than a scientific one: which is to say that it was less geared towards literally turning lead into gold, and more concerned into taking symbolic 'lead' (which is to say, a common person) into symbolic 'gold' (like a priest or king or deity, etc.).
OH, BY THE WAY:
Edit: Lineage! You can't just make a coven, you need to join a coven with a lineage, i.e. a connection back to Gardner's original. You do NOT need to be related to Gardner, nor do you need to be taught by a relative.
Example of a lineage: the leader of coven X is Joe, who was taught by Bob who was taught by Sam who was taught by Monkeyface who was taught by Gerald Gardner. WOO. Be careful, some people fake their lineages. SILVER RAVENWOLF, cough cough.
Edit 2:
Astenwroth
Sigh.. Is it human nature to wish to dumb something down to the point that it takes less effort? Rather then accept that if you don't qualify under certain very set requirements you aren't something? Perhaps growing up in an innitiatory and mystery religion myself makes it easier for me to just accept that Initiation+Mysteries=Wiccan and that lacking any part of that formula does not still = Wicca. Teeny-bopper occultists. Teen witch kits. Blah. Cardboard fast food society triumphing over education, effort and dedication.
People want it easy. People want it spoon fed. That's why you have books that sell so well. And it's not even Wicca. It's quite a few major religions too. "If I accept Jesus as my Christ then I'm Saved and going to heaven. Now pass me my beer b***h." "If I pray to the God & Goddess, spin around 3 times clockwise, then I'm initiated and now Wiccan. Yay me!"
Eating kosher food doesn't make you Jewish. Doing ceremonial magic doesn't make you Wiccan. Practicing witchcraft doesn't make you Wiccan or even Pagan by default.
[/rant]
People want it easy. People want it spoon fed. That's why you have books that sell so well. And it's not even Wicca. It's quite a few major religions too. "If I accept Jesus as my Christ then I'm Saved and going to heaven. Now pass me my beer b***h." "If I pray to the God & Goddess, spin around 3 times clockwise, then I'm initiated and now Wiccan. Yay me!"
Eating kosher food doesn't make you Jewish. Doing ceremonial magic doesn't make you Wiccan. Practicing witchcraft doesn't make you Wiccan or even Pagan by default.
[/rant]
heart Asten
Edit 3:
Quote:
This was spawned from a quick look at the Laws of Wicca (or whatever you wish to call them). This isn't meant to bash wicca or anything of that nature, but it is an effort to better understand the information, and to see if it really is practiced by those that call themselves wiccan, or if one can simply disreguard the rules as one sees fit.
The first issue is brought up in rules 4 and 5
4. As a man loveth a woman by mastering her.
5. So the Wicca should love the gods by being mastered by them.
Does this imply sexism? I will repeat that I am in no way criticizing wicca if this is the case. Many girls claim to be drawn to wicca because of the focus on a woman. While I am aware than many of these would be classified as 'fluffy' I am curious as to what the opinion of true, initiated wiccans are.
The second issue is with rules 153-155.
153. It had been found that practising the art doth cause a fondness between aspirant and tutor, and it is the cause of better results if this be so.
154. And if for any reason this be undesirable, it can easily be avoided by both persons from the outset firmly resolving in their minds to be as brother and sister, or parent and child.
155. And it is for this reason that a man may be taught only by a woman and a woman by a man, and women and women should not attempt these practices together. So be it ordained.
While Wicca does not condemn homosexuality like other religions, one is able to infer something against women x women relationships --to the point that a woman cannot teach another woman because romance might evolve.
This seems particularly interesting because so many wiccans today are of the bi-sexual or homosexual persuasion. (yet again, perhaps it's just the fluffies).
So, does wicca have a problem with homosexuality?
or is it just lesbianism, as men teaching men are not mentioned?
Now just to be an a**, I'll go ahead and point out rule 50.
... so for this reason these Laws were made of old and may the CURSE OF THE GODDESS BE ON ANY WHO DISREGARD THEM. So be it ordained.
and just as a last note, that phrase, the whole 'don't disreguard the rules' bit is mentioned several times throughout the 161 rules. Do they just apply to the set of rules before them, or to all of the rules?
The first issue is brought up in rules 4 and 5
4. As a man loveth a woman by mastering her.
5. So the Wicca should love the gods by being mastered by them.
Does this imply sexism? I will repeat that I am in no way criticizing wicca if this is the case. Many girls claim to be drawn to wicca because of the focus on a woman. While I am aware than many of these would be classified as 'fluffy' I am curious as to what the opinion of true, initiated wiccans are.
The second issue is with rules 153-155.
153. It had been found that practising the art doth cause a fondness between aspirant and tutor, and it is the cause of better results if this be so.
154. And if for any reason this be undesirable, it can easily be avoided by both persons from the outset firmly resolving in their minds to be as brother and sister, or parent and child.
155. And it is for this reason that a man may be taught only by a woman and a woman by a man, and women and women should not attempt these practices together. So be it ordained.
While Wicca does not condemn homosexuality like other religions, one is able to infer something against women x women relationships --to the point that a woman cannot teach another woman because romance might evolve.
This seems particularly interesting because so many wiccans today are of the bi-sexual or homosexual persuasion. (yet again, perhaps it's just the fluffies).
So, does wicca have a problem with homosexuality?
or is it just lesbianism, as men teaching men are not mentioned?
Now just to be an a**, I'll go ahead and point out rule 50.
... so for this reason these Laws were made of old and may the CURSE OF THE GODDESS BE ON ANY WHO DISREGARD THEM. So be it ordained.
and just as a last note, that phrase, the whole 'don't disreguard the rules' bit is mentioned several times throughout the 161 rules. Do they just apply to the set of rules before them, or to all of the rules?
Even while Gardner was alive, many of the 161 Laws were ignored. Gardner himself broke many of them. And yeah, ultra-traditional covens are against homosexuality.
Important Note - Orthodoxy vs. Orthopraxy
Orthodoxy - A religion that focuses on right beliefs. Chrisitanity is an orthodoxy - it's not important how you worship Yahweh (God the Father), it's only important that you believe in him.
Orthopraxy - A religion that focuses on religious practices, such as rituals or initiations or sacrifices to your deity/deities.
Wicca is not an orthodoxy. It is an orthopraxy.
